Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
Building Teams and Developing Champions with Neil Smith and Vic Morren of the NHL Wraparound Podcast
In this week's episode of "Our Kids Play Hockey," hosts Lee Elias, Christie Casciano Burns, and Mike Bonelli dive into a conversation with two hockey legends, Neil Smith and Vic Morren. Neil and Vic share their invaluable experiences and philosophies on building successful teams and fostering leadership qualities in young athletes.
What You'll Learn:
- The Art of Team Building: Discover Neil Smith's approach to creating a championship team, focusing on the blend of talent, character, and leadership.
- Developing Young Talent: Vic Morren sheds light on the importance of nurturing young players, emphasizing respect, discipline, and a strong work ethic.
- Overcoming Adversity: Both guests share their perspectives on the critical role of facing and overcoming challenges, both in hockey and life.
- Leadership: Insights into what makes a great leader on and off the ice, and how these qualities can be cultivated in young athletes.
- The Future of Hockey: A discussion on the evolving landscape of hockey and what it means for the next generation of players and coaches.
Episode Highlights:
- Neil Smith's Blueprint for Success: An in-depth look at the strategy behind the 1994 Rangers' triumph and how these principles can be applied to youth hockey.
- Vic Morren's Philosophy on Youth Development: Learn about the principles that have made Vic a respected figure in youth hockey circles.
- Personal Growth Through Sport: Our guests discuss how the lessons learned through hockey are applicable to personal development and success beyond the rink.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone involved in hockey, from coaches and parents to young players aspiring to reach new heights in their careers. Neil Smith and Vic Morren not only share the secrets behind their impressive careers but also impart wisdom that transcends sports, offering lessons on leadership, resilience, and the power of a positive team culture.
Join Lee, Christie, and Mike as they explore these themes, providing both inspiration and practical advice for our hockey community. Whether you're looking to inspire a young athlete or understand the nuances of team dynamics, this episode offers rich insights into the essence of success in hockey and life.
Click To Text The Our Kids Play Hockey Team!
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome back to another edition of our kids play hockey, powered by NHL sensorina. The whole trifecta is here Christy cash out of burns, mike Benelli and I am Leo Lyas, and today we're privileged to have two men who have made an impact in the game of hockey in different ways. Neil Smith, known for being the president and GM of the 1994 Stanley Cup champion New York Rangers, has led a hockey life. As a freshman, neil was an all-american defenseman with Western Michigan University. It was named captain of that team the following year. After being drafted and some time in the minor leagues, neil graduated to management and soon won Calder cups with the Detroit Red Wings organization as a GM. In 1989, neil was hired by the New York Rangers and oversaw that team's emergence during a pivotal time in both Rangers and NHL history. Not to mention, he was the architect of some of the biggest moves in NHL history, which included names like Messier and Gretzky.
Speaker 1:You might have heard of him. Neil is a highly regarded hockey executive and broadcaster whose experience will definitely dive into today. Vic Moran is an Emmy award winning NHL broadcast veteran who has had a hockey in his blood from the start, as a fan player, production manager and many more. The William Patterson University graduate which is funny because that was the arch rival of my school, montclair State University has authored multiple hockey books and has been a mainstay in hockey and sports broadcasting, which includes the Olympics, football and more. It also includes a 30-plus year career with ESPN, where he has spent a lot of time doing hockey. Vic and Neil have known each other for over 30 years and recently started the NHL wrap-around podcast with the goal of sharing no nonsense, opinions and news and issues around the National Hockey League. I have listened to it. It is fantastic. You should all take a look at that. We will try not to be too much nonsense on our show today. Neil, vic, welcome to. Our kids play hockey.
Speaker 2:It's really good to be here. Great to be here. We were looking forward to this. We're talking about it all week, so it's fun to be with you guys.
Speaker 1:All week. That is a compliment, my friend. Well, listen, we're not going to talk all week, today, we're only going to talk for about an hour. But I want to start by first congratulating you both on your podcast. Needless to say, you started with the boom. For those of you who haven't listened yet, the guest list from the first six episodes includes names like Wayne Gretzky, craig McTavish, keith Kachuk and Brian Burke. I want to know, guys, what was the inspiration for starting this show now and how has it been received?
Speaker 2:Vic, you go first.
Speaker 4:Sure, I separated from ESPN at the end of June of last year and Neil and I had been in pretty regular communication, kind of leading up towards that. And in early June actually before my last days there Neil reached out and said you know, we should do a production project together, and without really knowing what went into podcast, I said, well, how about a podcast? And from there it gained momentum. We teamed up with a company and from there it was just, you know, just a focus and get this thing launched in January, which I felt was just perfect timing, coming into the stretch drive of the NHL, and we just had a blast doing it. It's not only fun to do the shows, but as soon as we put a show in the can, it's also planning the next show and what you're going to talk about. So we've had a great time doing this up till now and hopefully we're doing it for many years down the road.
Speaker 3:So give us a little flavor of the show. For folks who haven't heard it yet, sell it to us. What's it about? What kind of topics do you dive into? How do you come up with the topics?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great question and something that we spent a lot of time thinking about when we were thinking about what our mission statement would be for the show, and really the thing that we like to say is that we're going to make sure that by the end of the show, you'll learn something that you wouldn't have known if you hadn't listened to it. That's really important, that something has to be out there that you didn't know before you tuned in. The other part about it is we're both historians because we're so damn old, and so you go. I go all the way back to the original six watching that when I was a little boy. Vic goes almost back that far and so and we have great recall both of us do and it's fun when you meet somebody that has the recall that you have, because you can go tit for tat about things that have happened in the past. So we bring that to the show as well.
Speaker 2:The other thing is is that Vic has a huge roll of decks, to use an old phrase, and I have a huge roll of decks, and so people like Wayne and Greg McTavish, kevin Shevelday off, others that are well known nationally well known are. I've been very kind and obliging to come on to the show and also we have a stable of people who have already said yes and that we're keeping them in a queue, hopefully to use them. You know, have them down the road. So we like to bring current topics, current people with current opinions, but also marry it back to the past and things that have gone on historically so that you can understand where the game is today. You can get a understanding from hearing what it was like before and how it evolved to where it is today.
Speaker 1:You know, guys, when I think about hockey podcasting and this is why I love your show there's so many hockey podcasts out there, right and the I don't want to say it's a problem, but the hold up for me is that most of the shows are kind of fan opinion based right, which, look, it has its place right, that's the community of sports in general. But when I look for a podcast, I'm looking for that in depth kind of viewpoint that maybe I don't have and that's what I think you both bring to the table right, because and again for those of you who don't listen to the show it's usually really great interviews and then a breakdown of kind of the NHL as it stands at the time of the show, and I really appreciate that because I'm getting insight from professionals in the game and again make you think right about about these teams and the NHL in a different way. It's not just complaining about what's going on or or actually probably more importantly, not creating rumors. I mean, we just saw that happen in Philadelphia recently where, you know, a crazy rumor was was brought out on a podcast and it caused a lot of hoopla. And then the other thing too is in your questioning and I have a lot of respect for this and a lot of appreciation for this as a broadcaster.
Speaker 1:You're asking Wayne Gretzky questions I've never heard him asked, right, if you. If you search Wayne Gretzky online, there's so much information you can. You can hear his speeches, you can hear his talks and his stories, but you guys asked him questions that I have never heard him answer and I. That's so fresh, right, especially for someone as high profile as Wayne Gretzky and the other. I'm not, I'm not trying to take away from the other athletes and people that you've had on the show, but I just got to tell you. I appreciate that as someone who wants to listen and I was. I was joked like it's like the airlines, right, we know you have a choice when listening to podcasts. We want to thank you for listening to ours, so I love that you guys took that approach in a very busy broadcast world.
Speaker 4:I think both of us really appreciate those words and, you know, even with Gretz, you know, obviously everybody asked him about Alex Ovechkin and we decided to spin that towards Austin Matthews, who will likely be the heir apparent. So every question you could take mainstream topics, but it's really what you do with them that is going to differentiate.
Speaker 4:And so whenever we get into Q&A and we had Brian Berkman last week who is just terrific talking about the penguins, talking about the PWHL and we want to come from places. That has to make them think also about their answers. You know, we don't want to throw softballs, we want to have fun, we want to be engaging with them but at the same time the method of our Q&A is to take either mainstream or non-mainstream, but whatever approach we take, make them think about their answers and, to your point, lee, come at them with something that maybe they haven't been asked before, or ask it in a different way. That's going to elicit a different answer and really enrich the experience for the listener.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that as a journalist, as a broadcaster, even as an executive, that's how we educate each other right by asking great questions. We always say on the show great questions demand great answers. I want to turn this a little bit now into your collective experience, especially for the audience listening, because, as I said, we have a lot of coaches, we have a lot of parents listening, and one thing I want to ask both of you is to talk for a few minutes about culture and its importance to being successful. So, obviously, whether it's competing for the Stanley Cup or managing a live production, the ability for the team to work together is everything. So how did you both approach architecting teams that could perform at the highest level?
Speaker 2:Well, for me I mean the my leadership position has always been what you know it as, and that is in hockey and professional hockey, and climbing the ladder to become the general manager of an NHL team, which that day that that happened, I was scared out of my mind. And then, of course, you get anointed president in GM, which was the first time ever that original six Rangers had had the same man be both positions, and so it's really important. Character is the first and very top ingredient in making anything successful. If you look at an organization that has been very successful I don't care what it is from donut making to, you know, ice hockey you look at the very top of the pyramid and if the person has good character, there's a chance that you could be extremely successful down the road. If the person at the top of the pyramid lacks in character, there is no chance that you're going to be able to be ultimately completely successful down the road. And as you go down that pyramid, it's really important that you keep hiring and putting on to the team high character individuals as you go down that pyramid, so that every layer of that pyramid has a lot of character in it, a lot of integrity, decision making is properly done. It's not done with ego, it's done with what's best for this organization.
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example, just with our podcast. Vic and I have no ego going into this thing. I mean our ego days are behind us, because his ego was involved with his television production, and rightly so. My ego was involved with winning and losing in hockey games and on the podcast we don't have an ego like. We're trying to do the best we can. So we collaborate on every single little thing, including this background that's behind us. We collaborated on on making that, ordering that. How do we do things? And that's the way I think a successful team has to operate. What's best for this podcast? Not what's best for Vic and makes him feel good about himself, or what not not making sure that everybody knows that you won the Stanley Cup in 1994. It's about what's what's going to make a better podcast.
Speaker 2:So that and that has to be like that in everything in life. If you, whether you've got a team in Pee Wee or Bantam or Midget or whatever the names are today maybe they're changed you got to make sure you get good character people, and especially the coaches of God, to be character individuals. It's so important that young people learn from character people. It's their starting place, it's the roots, it's where they're going to want to go. You know where their mind will take them back to later in life when they make a decision. Subconsciously or consciously, they'll go back to what they were taught when they were very young, not only from their parents, but also from their coaches. Their coaches are going to teach them about teamwork, something parents can't completely teach them, but the coach and their teammates will teach you that. I know that's a long answer. The character is the number one ingredient.
Speaker 1:Well, and Vic, before we turn to you and Neil, I love that answer because I believe I think we all believe that that character development from both a team and an individual point in youth hockey and youth sports in general, it's part of the job that you're volunteering for. Right, obviously, hockey skills, hockey hockey tactics are part of it, but the ability for the coach and the village, for lack of a better sense to build that character from an organizational standpoint, I think are essential If you want to become a successful organization. Right, and I always say that I appreciate parents that volunteer. But you got to know what you're volunteering for. You're not here just to push pucks around and to make sure the kids get off the bench in order. Right, it's a little bit more than that, and that comes from the top, that comes from the hockey organization, the director of hockey, to make sure that that's portrayed.
Speaker 1:Now, vic, turning to you, I've worked in broadcasting, christie's working broadcasting. I've been in a live production room. I don't think a lot of people know what that's like. I don't think they understand the chaos, or really sometimes it's organized chaos that happens. But you have built some amazing production teams over your time. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your keys to success.
Speaker 4:One of the things that amazes me and I've been in the industry for over 39 years and the one thing I have always found remarkable regarding television and particularly sports television, where so much what goes on is spontaneous is the chances of something somewhere to go wrong, and how seldom it does. Now I've been a part of a few things that have just completely gone down the toilet and have looked bad, sounded bad, but overall, the amount of times that there's so much chaos and yet so seldom does anything really go markedly wrong. But to your point and to follow up on Neil, there is so much to be said about leading a team and bringing the right people and having them buy into a core vision that is best for the overall project. And it's in television, it's in coaching I spend time in coaching.
Speaker 4:There's that delicate balance of also knowing how to deal with individuals within a team concept that some people need to pat on the back, some people need to kick in the butt, and it's very important also that when you do have those moments that you're dressing down or you're talking to somebody sternly, that the ending message is that it's uplifting and that there is hope for that individual. So there's a lot of different ways to build success, be it on the ball field, on the ice or in a production control room. There's that level of competitiveness that I know, neil and I have, that you always wanted to be the best it could be, and there's a lot of paths to getting there and that's part of the fun part is trying to find that path for each individual and each team that you're involved with.
Speaker 1:I always like to say too and Christie, you could probably talk to this too you know, when you see an NHL team play a game or you see Christie go on the news at night, it looks very smooth sometimes, right, how it gets to that point. But it's the behind the scenes stuff, you know, is where all of that is made. And I always say to kind of hockey fans we see so little of what's actually going on in the same in television. You see so little of what it takes to make this product look as good as it does, right, and it's amazing really, because that I would say there's the rub right, Like, like, when you look at it, from youth hockey to the NHL to television, that's where the work is done. You know and we've heard all the cliche sayings of you know you practice hard, so the games are easy. The amount of training that goes into hockey and broadcasting is insane, Neil.
Speaker 1:To your point earlier, one of the sayings that I love to when I do team building excuse me with all the teams and whether it be from pro all the way down to the youth, I always give this. It was given to me by a Marine, but there's a lot of arguments about where it came from. But this ideology of team, teammates, self as a priority system and that you can always bring that to the table, Are you putting the team first, and then your teammates and then yourself? They're all important, they're all equally important, but it's how we prioritize them that matters, right and, I imagine, for the highest levels of success we talked about. You talked earlier about removing ego. The ego falls away and everybody is in sync with that priority system.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, you know you can't have. I mean, it's very similar to the military. I have a very close friend who's spent 23 years in the military and including in halo jumping and all kinds of scary stuff. You know, behind enemy lines Yemen, afghanistan, iraq and even the stuff he talks to me about, about no man left behind and other things that make you chill and they give you chills the way they have to approach this In a much tamer sense. It's the same thing when you're team building. In any team you can't be successful. Can you imagine the military if you had egos getting in the way or you had stuff like that? How many people would literally die from that? So take that to this other level.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, the integrity is so important. And again, getting back to what we're all here to talk about, it's so important for adults to have integrity in front of children, in front of young adults, in front of people, because they're gonna pick up on everything. Their file cabinet is not very full and so there's a lot of room for new files to go in there. Our file cabinet mine is jammed, like it's falling out of the drawers. Young people have a lot of space in their file cabinet. So everything you do goes into that file cabinet. Every all your body language, all your different things goes into that file cabinet and it's stored for later, for them to pull back out and use in their own life. And so think of how important everything you say and do in front of a young person is when you think about it from that perspective.
Speaker 3:You're so right there. I just witnessed it. This weekend I was invited to go watch a skills competition with 7U. So these are tiny little kids out there and the parents in the stands were cheering and there were four different teams out there battling it out with different skills. It was so fun to watch. The parents were cheering on every single kid out there, it didn't matter what team they were on. And you know what?
Speaker 3:After that skill competition was done, the little kids were out there congratulating each other on their own and I think a lot of that came because they felt that positivity from their parents in the stands that we're all in this together. We're seven years old, we're out there battling out and the parents are cheering for all the kids, not just their kid, and I think that spilled out onto the ice and you saw that and I was sat back and I never happened when my kids were out there years ago. It was like go get them, you know, and I thought that parents are getting it, parents are getting it, and the kids emulated their parents and they went out there and they were congratulating each other. That's really good. Maybe the culture is starting to change since when we were at our little kids out there doing skills competition.
Speaker 3:It was good to see.
Speaker 4:It's such an important message also because for every example that, christine, you just shared, you can go onto the Internet and find high school brawl kids brawl somebody punching an umpire or a referee in a hockey, baseball, soccer game, whatever it is. And I think we're at a real crossroads here because it's so important not to let these negative instances become more mainstream and that it's acceptable behavior. So it's so important that the message that you just shared, christine, is it gets out there, people see it and you know just as if there's negative stuff out there, it can grow momentum. Same thing in the opposite direction with positive messaging. And I think, the way the country is now and there's so much divisiveness, to show true unity for a common cause is one of the best messages that can be delivered.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and start y'all, start y'all. Don't wait until you think, oh, they're not going to get it. They're only six and seven years old. They get it.
Speaker 1:They watch.
Speaker 5:They're listening to you.
Speaker 4:That's Neil's file cabinet right there.
Speaker 5:Maybe it's almost also a good time breaking somebody like Neil and ask so we see, like today's NHL, right, and we watch, you know, obviously a lot of people around here will follow the Rangers and you watch, you know everybody leading up to a player that obviously is a very skilled hockey player but comes out and says, okay, the only reason I'm going to tune into this game is for a you know about, that's going to happen and it's going to be a fight in this game and that's everybody's looking up to it.
Speaker 5:My, you know, neil, you had Mike Canan in behind the scenes, you know. So you really saw how the sausage gets made. That a lot of people shouldn't see, but that's but I think we on our podcast and we talked about this a lot that's at the professional level, that's at the very top. That's when people's lives are literally on the line for a job, like they could get fired tomorrow. If this doesn't happen, then this is going to happen and I think you know, maybe you guys could talk a little bit about you know how do we, as parents of youth hockey players, differentiate between the two?
Speaker 1:Because I, you know, I, because I, Mike, are you saying it's not the same? Are you trying to say that youth hockey is not the NHL? I?
Speaker 5:want it to be the same. Listen, I love listen if my team lost. If my team lost in Norway, I would skate my kids for four hours after after.
Speaker 1:Hire the head coach.
Speaker 5:But I think this is what happens now, like we all as youth hockey coaches fall into this. Like look at the winners, look what they look, what they do, look at the, look at the intimidation that they use, look at the way that that that coach coaches their their. They call them kids. They're not kids. These are. These are men that are that are paid quite well, that have to be in a gladiator mindset. So maybe you guys could talk a little bit about and I know you probably don't broach this too much on your show because it's not a youth hockey podcast it's like you know, really real hockey fans that want to hear, like, what's happening in NHL. So maybe you guys could talk about, like, where you know, what can we do to understand that there is a difference and that you know you will. You got to get our players to that place first before you can start asking them to do with like pro you know pro people do.
Speaker 2:Well, in my mind, I think, and and you know what Vic can speak to this as authoritatively as I can, because he has two young men, sons, young adults that he's helped get into, become good athletes, and I'll let him speak to that. But in my life, I think the main thing that young parents need to remember is that you need to talk about what's an example within youth hockey, not an example within the NHL. So if you're lust to get your kid to the NHL or you're lust to get to some way emulate these heroes that you have in the NHL, you can't you said it right, Mike, you can't bring that down to the eight, 10, 12 year olds. Don't bring that down there, because it's a totally different thing, it's not the same, and you don't want to emulate what's going on in an NHL game. You're not at that level that you can do that yet. You want to be getting through the basics of the game before you start worrying about one timers at the point through a bunch of or blocking shots when you're eight years old. I mean whatever, whatever the example would be, and so it's. It's really important that you remember. Okay, here's where we are now. We got plenty of time to go there in the future. But where are we right now and keep concentrating on the now, because that's what's important.
Speaker 2:And I think that gets away from parents, because of course they're sitting there, they're in their late 20s, 30s, the parents are, let's say, they're watching basically younger peers play on the ice. So in other words, it's not like me watching NHL players now they could all be my son, it's. It's it's you know, you're in the same age group type thing, and so it's natural to want to do that. But not to the children, not to the kids. Don't bring that to them. Bring it to yourself, if you want. Understand how hard it is to play the way that Jack Hughes plays. Understand how hard it is to play the way Sabanajad plays, because you're that age and you can oh gosh, how could I ever do that? But don't bring Sabanajad or Panarin down to an eight year old, because there's no correlation whatsoever between those two. But, Vic, you should talk about your kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, my older boy is studying sports management at UMass but when he was pitching in high school, you know, had a big arm but has now, you know, gone off on a different path. Conversely, my younger son goes to the same school that Red Wing's head coach, derek Lalonde, played goal, which is the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. And even though we're talking baseball as opposed to hockey here, I'm going to go in the opposite direction of Neil, where you know, you kind of see, you know the players and the young kids and you can't emulate them. And in working with Jake, this was a kid that hated working out, hated doing stretching, hated doing any of the prep work, and about three or four years ago it just clicked for him, where he works hard, he studies the craft, and I said, look, the odds of you becoming a majorling baseball player is infinitesimal, but you are among the 7% of high schoolers that go on to play college sports.
Speaker 4:Enjoy the ride. You're obviously there because you can play and that you're not dropping off. You're there, You're an athlete. Now Enjoy it Field, hit, throw and Wherever it ends, it ends and, more likely, it's going to end and you're going to be a psychologist, which is what you're studying. But for now, just enjoy where you're at. Don't worry about having to get to that next level. If it works out, great, and if it doesn't, that's great too.
Speaker 1:You know, vic, you brought up with some great points here. We talk a lot on the show about present moment awareness. We had some great guests on previously. You know, be where your feet are at and we talk all the time to coaches about you got to meet these kids, no matter what age they are, where they're at. Because if you're not, if you tell a nine-year-old, look at Panarin, but you're literally forcing them out of the moment of being nine.
Speaker 1:Right, I had a great conversation with a parent the other day and this parent really wants this might team to win the games even though we don't keep score. And I explained to her that, look, I understand what you're saying, but we need to teach the kids to be competitive before they can compete. And I said there's a difference between those two things. And I said being competitive is like walking or reading. Some kids get it at different points and you have to be patient with that. You know well my kid doesn't compete hard enough. Your kid is seven and goes to preschool or in first grade where they're teaching them to share and be nice to each other. So it's not shocking to me that they don't want to go on the ice and steal the puck. But we can teach them how to be competitive at practice and explain to them this is a game that you want to win. That's the skill that needs to be developed at that age. It was a great conversation because I think the parent understood of like look, obviously we preach at the youngest levels to have fun, love the game, because if you don't love the game at that young age, you're not going to play beyond a certain age anyway. Right, if you don't foster a love of the game. But we can teach them to be competitive. And that was the key moment for her of oh, you're not just teaching them happy clapping and holding hands, which isn't the worst thing in the world anyway, but you gotta meet kids where they're at.
Speaker 1:And again, when you get up to 12 or even 18, right, you gotta meet these kids where they're at, within their development, and where they're at. And you made a great point there too. Some kids it just clicks early on and they got it and they want to practice all the time and they're in the garage or in the basement and it's all they do all the time. Never compare your kid to that kid if they don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:We say this on the show all the time you can cultivate a love, but you cannot create it, right. You cannot put your love of hockey into your kid, right, so, but you can cultivate it. You can create an environment, right. But it's so important and you both said it right and look, I imagine this goes beyond youth sports, right, and you can, yeah. So I just think it's a really important point to you're both emulating it right now in your answers of just you gotta meet people where they're at. If you go and reflect on the past too much or the future too much, they can't do the work in the present if you don't present them with that environment.
Speaker 2:Vic, I should tell them. I'm not gonna tell them the whole story, but how I survive day to day personally. You said something and I know you were picking up on what we said, but I just want to go back to that point, Lee, for a second, and that is that even throughout your life and this is gonna sound really like Grandpa Smith here you should always try to be where you are in your entire life and you should enjoy the journey and not keep looking towards the destination. It's so easy to say that you read so many books, that cartoony on and on and on about live the now, live the now, live the now. But I'll tell you one thing Life's gonna throw something at you at some point and you're gonna have to live the now because you won't survive if you don't. And if you are so wrapped up in yourself that all you're thinking about is the future and regretting the past and hoping for the future, you're not gonna do well, and that goes for any age you are. It goes especially later in life when you start to have stuff hitching the face that you didn't really want. It's really important.
Speaker 2:But for children, can you imagine how we all think back on our childhood and go gosh. I wish I could relive that. I wish I could relive this part. I wish I could relive college. I wish I could relive being on that championship team. I was on when I was 10 years old and the fun and the thrill of that that was bigger than the Stanley Cup when I was 40. And the reason is because sometimes and it's natural in life, because this is how we compete in society and how we get ahead is we're thinking future, future, future, like well, tomorrow I'll be better than I was today, and so on and so forth. But it's so important to try to teach young kids to live in the moment and live where they are right then, and stop thinking about what's it gonna be like when I'm in the ninth grade, when I'm in the seventh. No, no, think about the seventh. You'll get to the ninth, I promise you you'll get there. But just, it's really important in life to stay where we are.
Speaker 1:I'll speak to that too, neil. Thank you for sharing that, my friend. I appreciate the vulnerability there. I do, again, a lot of team building. A lot of my team building is mindfulness and I started doing it with seven, eight year olds and what I was told was they can't do mini meditations, they don't have the attention span. They're better at it than the adults and what I tell people is that it's funny, because this is another saying people have heard, but the first in the youth areas you're putting stuff in their minds. So you teach a kid at seven or eight to be present, they can start picking up on that and planting seeds.
Speaker 1:When I work with adults or older hockey players, a lot of it's more taking stuff out of their minds and that's life in a microcosm in a lot of ways. But you're so right and I think that's part of coaching is, if we look too far ahead even the next game, like if you're a practice, be at practice. We might be preparing for the game, but you're here now and look for everybody listening your mind is completely wired to wander, like that's how the human brain works. So you don't have to be angry with yourself if you end up in the past or the future. That's normal. The key of it, though, is can you recognize and be conscious that you're leaving the present moment, and then gently bring yourself back? And that's not easy. That's what you were alluding to. That's the exercise, right? That's where the work comes in, but I think, once you're conscious to it, there's really no going back, right? It's like being born again.
Speaker 2:You know I'm gonna stop after this, I promise. But you meet people that can't get out of the rabbit hole, whatever rabbit hole they're in, you know, lost their job, lost their spouse, you know, whatever, whatever it is, and that's because they can't do what you just talked about. They can't pull their head out of that place that they're in and get it back to right now. So if you've been fired from your job, take Vic for just use my part here for an example If he kept going back to I was 35 years at ESPN and they laid me off like this is horrible. It's like you know, I must have done something wrong. I must have. Well, I thought I was better than that.
Speaker 2:He stays in that mindset. He's not gonna be able to do this show, he's never gonna be able to develop it with me. He's not even gonna be able to say, yes, I'll do that with you. He's just gonna stay down in that rabbit hole and he's gonna lose so much going forward. But if he can which he does, obviously pulls himself. Whenever his mind goes down there, he says no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going down there, I'm going back to where I am right now. That's the key. I'm not going there. I'm not going there, I'm just staying where I am.
Speaker 4:And that's so much a matter of what your mindset is. And look, I've had my share of setbacks and unexpected's over life, but in the end, it's always ended up in the right place. I may have not liked something that happened at the time, but it's always ended up in a good place. And in November of 2022, when Bob Iger came back to Disney, I had already survived five different periods of layoffs of literally thousands of people.
Speaker 4:And I'm thinking, eh, you know what, this one may be the one. And so you prepare yourself for it. You keep on doing what you're doing. But when the time came and you have this pit in your stomach, you think, oh my God, this is gonna be the worst thing ever. And boy, when I got the call that day, I was almost relieved and they said we're gonna pay you for another two months. And I'm thinking, okay, in as much as I saw the layoff coming, I'm like something else is out there.
Speaker 4:And I didn't know it right away and, of course, then Neil called six weeks later and it turns out this was it. So it's a matter of having a healthy mindset. It's also challenging yourself every day not to get into that depressed mind shaft or a place that you don't wanna be in. And it's easy to say that, but to actually put it into practice. Have a healthy mindset. Challenge yourself to be better every day, and it doesn't have to be something grandiose. Is doing a podcast? It can be the smallest tasks of you know doing a good job, painting in your basement or whatever you do. If you challenge yourself to do it better, then it's gonna be healthier for you, it's gonna be healthier for the people around you, and I think that that message as it goes to our youth challenge them just small pieces. It doesn't have to be anything big, but if you challenge yourself in small spaces, you'll be able to tackle the bigger ones much better once you get there.
Speaker 5:So yeah. So I'm wondering, how do you tie this in? And maybe, neil, you could speak to this, because you have to change people's lives in your profession all the time, like somebody has to get traded, somebody's gotta get moved, somebody might be at the end of their hockey career, that might be it. Like okay, this is you. Just like we're talking about it right now with, like the Pittsburgh Penguins, right, people are saying, oh my God, like we might have to blow this whole thing up, like what's the debate? You know, are we debating? Do we hold on because of prosperity? And just, you know, feeling like like, oh my God, this is like this is something that should be right. Like so how do you deal with that? And then maybe we could talk a little bit about because you guys are, you're hitting the nail on the head right where we are right now.
Speaker 5:We're in like tryout season and little kids and parents moving from one organization to another. Do I stay in the organization I'm at? Am I happy where I was? How can I change things? And you think about that as a parent and you're in the car with these kids having these conversations on the cell phone and you're talking to other coaches and other parents and all these eight year olds and nine year olds who are sucking all that in Like they might. They don't listen to you when you're telling them to get off the phone, but they are hearing you all the time and I think, like. So it's like.
Speaker 5:For me it's like a two-part question. Number one how do you work with the pros on making you know, having those conversations about moving a player on and, you know, moving in a different direction? And then, maybe, how conscious do we have to be about not letting our players appreciate how great they have it now? And it doesn't always have to change, it doesn't always have to be in a place they're not ready for. It doesn't always have to be the challenge of, you know, moving up. It just be happy where you're at now. And I think more and more we see it where people start being unhappy in November. You know they're not happy in November, so then they go in November, december, january, february, and they're always moving. So I know, I know it's a little over the place, but maybe a two-parter.
Speaker 2:You know, as far as the NHL, goes, or Pro hockey, which, because I was always. I was also in the American League as a general manager for a long time and I was also a chief scout, so there's different levels of bad news there. Or good news. You know you're always in the middle of the day and you know you're always on the top of the list of some news, hiring, firing. I mean you just have to have compassion for the person who's hearing the news and and understand where they're coming from and that you know if you're trading Mike Gartner at the deadline when he's got a chance in his long hall of fame career to win the Stanley Cup, and you're trading them on the deadline of the year that you win the Cup, you just got to be compassionate to him and his wife, colleen, and to their kids and how this is going to disrupt their family and so on and so forth. There's nothing you can do about it to change it, because you've made a decision that's in the best interest of the greater good, which is the Rangers and their fan base and their and their ownership and their, the rest of the team and their support for that individual, and not just treat it like you know he's a piece of meat that you're going to take off to the. You know you've just traded to a different farmer.
Speaker 2:I think I can tell you my minor hockey I I went quite far as a player, I think I mean I was all American. In college at Western Michigan I played in the Miners for a couple years. I wasn't good enough to make the NHL. As it turned out, I was a good player. I was a good player. I was a good player.
Speaker 2:New York Islanders pretty good training camp if you think about potpin and bossy and trotchy, and Phillies and all these guys were in our room there and of course I'm, I'm, I'm wondering why I'm even there, you know, like because of you skating around with these guys, but but in any case, so I had a good, a good career. I mean parents, if, if Vick said it about his son, I mean if you know, I mean it's never mind the NHL, and I know there's 32 teams now and there's 50 contracts on every, on every team. So you've got what 1500 contracts out there or whatever it is, but that's still a miniscule amount compared to who plays the game and plays it all over the world. You're not just competing to make the NHL with Americans and Canadians. You're competing with, you know, slovaks, and and, and, and and and so, but. But what I want to get to is I remember countless times it's so painful to coming up stairs from the locker room.
Speaker 2:My mom was waiting upstairs because my dad died early and she was a hockey player. That's how I got into hockey, and, and I'm crying because they cut me. They just cut me and and, but I always tried out for teams that I probably was just on the periphery of whether I was good enough to make it or not, but I wanted to try for it because you know, and so naturally what happens you get cut a lot when you're when you're trying out for a team and then you end up because the season's going to start. You end up going to a team lower down and you try again the next year and that that was that day's hockey. I know today. You know you're going to be a good player. All that crying and all that stuff still was good. I think it was good for me in the long run because I I tasted, defeat a lot and got ready to understand what it's like.
Speaker 2:That you I'll fast forward this you win the president's trophy in nineteen ninety-two. You've got a Stanley Cup team. You go up and you're going to get a penalty out and the penguins go on to win the Cup. Never lose another game.
Speaker 2:That was nineteen ninety-two and and that hurt that you've got to deal with until the next year's playoffs when you get another chance and story be told, we didn't have another playoffs that year because we missed the playoffs, the following yeah, but anyway, that pain you know that you're trying to get rid of, but you the one thing is is it hardens you to that because you know you're trying to get rid of every game nobody makes every team, nobody, and and so it's it. There's a learning process there, but again, I I hope, mike, I've answered your question in in as best I can, because I know it was a longer question if I haven't yet.
Speaker 5:Well, I know I think it's. It comes down to it, right, compassion and and knowing that this is a human being, and and then we bring it down. And I think that's where, personally, in my experience at the youth hockey level, that's where some of these coaches forget about the team. And you know you can't just post the a bunch of names on a board and run away. You know you can't. You get there's some responsibility to have a conversation about. You know, if you're, if you and we and we've had these conversations in another podcast about, like, preparing for tryouts and selecting a team, going to the right place, that for your kid but you know the responsibility from and you guys both hit on it multiple times earlier that you know this is a process of development. This is a process of putting a family and educating them as you go, go through the, the, the hockey system, and knowing that, okay, why'd you get caught? Well, you got cut because of this, this and this, and what can you do better? Well, you know, really, you can do this, this and this and where can you go? Well, we could recommend you go here, here and here. I mean there's a lot.
Speaker 5:That's what I think great organizations do and I think at your, your guys level, you know you do that too right. I mean, you know Vic too. You, you have interns all the time. I'm sure you know you have all great people that are helping us, you know, in the production side of things. But we can't keep everyone, so some somebody's gotta go, and then when that person goes, just I don't know you at all. But I'm hearing what you're saying and I'm here and I'm thinking you're probably go and say, hey, we can't keep you. But here's, here's some recommendations I can give you about what you can do next.
Speaker 4:Well, I think to address that and also go back to Neil's point about you know that everybody's gonna get defeated and you know the the best things that I remember from just trainings and seminars and all these things about leadership and learning how to you know to move forward and coping and all that stuff.
Speaker 4:Very simple, and kids can identify this in a second. This is the one of the greatest tools. It's a climbing wall and in order to get to the top, very often you're gonna reach a certain place but you know it's a step, maybe lateral or maybe backward, before you can move, and I think that kids can identify with that and tie it into. Okay now, I understand disappointment. I understand that I may have to take a step sideways or backwards before I can advance. It's such a simple tool to get in their heads that oh, okay, you know what this may be okay and oh, by the way, climbing the wall is fun and so it's all part of a learning process to get in there, and I have to bring this up now too for the parents listening.
Speaker 1:That's part of the process. We always say that there's no correct route to getting where you want to go and that that supports that theory. Right, your ability. How many of us go to you know? Right, nobody like I always talk about the path to championships. It's not a straight line. It's up and down, you know you. You talked about too. Sometimes it's over a years, right, um, actually, you know to your point. Um, I just finished Messier's book and I was on the Rangers, on the Rangers as well as, as we had to learn. We had to learn.
Speaker 1:It was very painful, um, but as a parent, part of the process is teaching your kid to deal with that type of adversity and that it's not really what happens to you. It's how you respond to it. So many parents are lost in the. How do I get to tier one? And once I get to tier one, how do I get to the best team in tier one? It's not a straight line. Some of my best years of life because I was hungrier or I understood that pain or I was motivated.
Speaker 1:So I think part of it is part of parenting in general, it's not just part of sports, um is the ability to to um not give your kids the excuse. Well, you would have made the team of this kid or this coach did this, or you did that, or you would have scored if this teammate passed you. That's not the right message. Right? The? The message should be okay, this didn't. How are we going to respond to that Not happening? What can you control that's going to allow you to get better in this situation? When you get to the professional world, whether it be broadcasting or hockey, it's only going to get harder. Neil, you said it Failures will come more often, right, because you're not going to reach the pinnacle without failing. It just doesn't happen. I can't think of any story outside mythology where and usually mythology doesn't happen, where you just get to the end and you won. It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 4:You're such a great point with that and there's such a simple saying also is success often is determined with how well you deal with plan B. Right, because everybody's got the plan A, which is the success and the stardom and everything that comes with that, but it's also not realistic, so you better have an alternate plan in mind, and that little phrase really speaks to that and to what you were saying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and we're seeing it in real time right, where the kid, like kind of a bradar that every youth hockey player is wearing his jersey right now and you watch his kids directory. He's moving up, he's moving up. He breaks his arm. He finds a way to train, he finds a way to persevere. Boom, boom, boom, he's going. He's going going first, first couple of weeks in the league. Boom, he breaks his jaw. And now he tries to find. Now he's got to come back and he's trying to find a way to persevere.
Speaker 5:Like there's, there's, there's those, those, those players that know how to swim upstream and you know, and find their, their, their holding points and then go. And I think that's where you know, that's where the great people become great people Like that's why these, these, these stars in any profession can get there, because they understand that the adversity piece is just a growth piece for them. And that mindset of, okay, well, that's soft, let me. Let me think how I can do this.
Speaker 5:I think the problem at the youth hockey level right now is that there's, there's the like people just use the excuse of oh, we got cut from that team, I'll just go to another triple A team. Oh, that triple A team. I'll make a triple A team. Oh, that didn't happen, I'll go, you know. So there's no there, there's, there's, there's. Less and less and less of climbing the ladder now. And we need to, we need to, and that's, you know. That's really one of the reasons we're on the show every Monday is that, you know, having those conversations about, well, how can we make this a better place for all our kids and sports that understand that we want to have that adversary Like we. This is when we want it. We want it when you're eight. I don't want it when I'm 63.
Speaker 4:Like I want it now. And you know what, mike? I think that people would have a hard time seeing this like right up front, but the level of gratification that is garnered through overcoming adversity to get to a goal is far greater than just being able to take an easy path there. So that's that's where the great lessons are for kids, is you know, you overcome it. It actually feels better than if it was just there all along.
Speaker 1:And you see this play out in Pro Hockey all the time All those great dynasties, all those great teams. They had someone or something they had to overcome. We talked about the Rangers President's Trophy to no playoffs. You can look at the, the Oilers having to get past the Islanders. I mean, the Red Wings at one point couldn't win, the Capitals couldn't get past Pittsburgh. There's always something the Philadelphia Flyers can't find goal tending. That's a joke. But my point is is that there's always something that you have to overcome to go there.
Speaker 3:Christy, I didn't mean to cut you off, oh no, and I was just going to say sometimes it's not so much overcoming as it is adjusting the sales. You know, you just have to. Something happens. You think you're on this course. All of a sudden the unexpected happens. You adjust your sales, you're in a different direction and you make the most of that, and sometimes it can take you on a much better path. You don't see it at the time and that's where you have to be resilient and say okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves, this is what I had planned, there's another plan here and we're going to make the best of that. Sometimes it's a case of difficulty.
Speaker 2:Christy, you can relate to this in your career. But you know all of this that we're talking about, including even youth hockey. Youth hockey is a growth tool for kids to become adults and in my view it's the very best growth tool. It's teamwork. It's teaching you how to stick up for your teammates, how to act with a group, how to have respect for your coach. On and on and on. And those life lessons will carry you very, very far. But we're in the entertainment business, all of us really.
Speaker 2:When you think about it, we're in the entertainment business and you can go over to another group and that's actors, comedians and so on. The failures that these people have throughout their life to get to where they are. If you talk to Liam Neeson, the setbacks that he had during his career to become the iconic guy now he doesn't see himself as iconic because he remembers all those failures he had. But, as Vic said, but then when you get there, you know it makes it even greater because you did go through all those tough times. You did lose to Pittsburgh when you were supposed to win the cup, you did miss the playoffs and you proved that you were a great team and you wanted to cup the next year, for example. That's just one example.
Speaker 2:You know you did. You were able to prove what you set out to prove. But your stick to it and your instincts to survive a setback and not just go down the rabbit hole because of the setback. I mean we've all faced that we have to or you wouldn't be at the level you're at. And Christy, you're on TV. I mean I've been on TV. I haven't been a regular on TV like you are, but there are setbacks you're going to have as you go through this and it's. Those setbacks must make you even more determined to improve and get to where you want to go 100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have said you never know what's going to happen when you're on a live broadcast, right, you know that Life hits, crash, the producer messes up the rundown, no one's communicating to you, yeah, and so you just have to figure out how to stay calm, how to look like there's nothing wrong. Yeah, it's a skill that I think, and even our young hockey players I see it all the time. You know, players get sick, your lines get messed up, you don't have the. Maybe your coach is sick. You have a different coach up there. So you just kind of figure out how to make the best with what you have and try and shine through it, right?
Speaker 1:You know I'll say this real quick before I have a question I want to ask is? You know, in youth hockey, christy, you're right all the time. You know, last night I'm really proud of my kids, but the elementary school team that they're on, we showed up and the other team had a bunch of kids I'll just say that probably should not have been on the roster that night from a much higher level. And you know, we had people really uncomfortable on the bench and I said, hey, it is what it is, let's play the game. I said I think we can win this game and let's just play the game. Let's have the right mentality here. You're not the summation of what the other team is. You're the summation of what we have on our bench tonight, kids. And they won the game. You know, it's like it's all about how you put it.
Speaker 1:Now, if we had just worried about the AAA player on the other team the whole night, our whole game plan would have fallen apart. So you're right, this is a skill and it's a collective leadership, right? You know, coaches, I always say if you start panicking on the bench, your team is going to panic. Right, you might be panicking on the inside but, like Christie said on live broadcast, you got to smile. If it's not going right, you got to give that that, that you got to emulate the emotion you want out there. Listen, I want to turn to this question.
Speaker 5:I think Christie has an article coming out about that soon. Who? Yes, I do, yes, I do Christie Hockey.
Speaker 1:Magazine Check it out. I want to ask you both this question. I had it written down and I don't want to get it out before we run out of time. At the top levels and again we can equate this to youth hockey or anything Talent is there, right? Talent's a prerequisite. Everyone's got it when you get to the high levels and again, broadcasting hockey, it doesn't matter. I was wondering if you guys could give us a little bit of an in-depth view of how you choose people for the team, and we talked a lot about character, lack of ego, fitting in the right roles. So I know that that's part of the process, but I want to know, like are the questions that you ask yourself? Is there a process that you follow when you're looking at bringing a player in, putting a player out, or, vic, again, broadcasting like the right person on the switcher is very important. You know what is the process that you both take personally, to kind of put that equation together.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, Vic.
Speaker 4:I think from the TV perspective and I don't choose the switchers I was more involved in the production and not the technical.
Speaker 4:But, it's the same thing, but more so in production, because you are actually creating the product that is going on the air, and it's a feeling on individuals in terms of how well they will fit within your team.
Speaker 4:And over the years at ESPN, we had a lot of people coming in that thought that they were just going to reinvent everything that ESPN had ever stood for and that they were going to come in and they were going to take the world by storm.
Speaker 4:And there's shelf life is generally pretty short because I think there was a level of cockiness and arrogance and no-nullism and it's a very detailed business in a lot of different ways that many of which people don't even see. And so you get a feeling when somebody comes in. Do they want to learn, do they want to grow, how much do they want to take on? And one of the great lessons that I have always been able to share with individuals is when they ask well, what it's going to take to make this business? And I said do everything, even if there is something that you don't think you're going to end up in long term. If you have the opportunity to learn and grow and broaden your skill sets, do it, and that's all part of a person that really wants to blend in with the team, as opposed to the futile effort of having the team adjusted to them.
Speaker 2:It's hard to equate what you look for in players because you're not getting the chance to pick through them. You're drafting them, You're trading for them, You're signing them as free agents. So, yes, you check on a lot of things. First of all, everybody knows everybody in hockey. So if I'm trying to sign the Player X, I can find people that know this guy and know his personality and know his character and know what to expect out of him. So you have to have a wide array of resources to make sure that your thought process is right. When you're thinking about this individual In the draft, you're doing the same thing. You're trying as best you can to get as much resources in there to make the right decision and, let's face it, you only get about two players out of every draft, two NHL players out of seven picks not even that. It's less than that. So you're not going to always hit the ball, because you can't. But I think what I can relate to or talk to better than the players is the staffing and what makes a great organization and what makes a great organization again we go back to the top is that when the guy at the top decides to hire people that know more about some part of it, then he does. He has a general overseer and orchestrator. But if I'm gonna hire an assistant GM, I want him to have been a GM at some point, Not sit there worrying about well, he might take my job, which is nonsense but I want him really knowledgeable. He can teach me stuff, because everybody's got knowledge that I don't have. And so if you build your organization that way and bring in people that know a lot more about their specialty than you do, which is gonna be most people to be quite frank with you, if you're picking a marketing director, make sure that person knows way more about marketing than you do. That's what you want, and don't let your ego get in the way and say, well, I can't have him around because he'll think he's better than me, he won't listen to me, or he won't listen to me or he won't listen to me. It's all nonsense. So you've got to.
Speaker 2:In my view, you've got to. If you're picking people that don't have the skill set yet, like Vicks talking about interns, and that, of course, you're gonna go to their character, you're gonna go to asking them about where they grew up or how they grew up or so on and so forth and where they were educated and you try to find people that know them so that you can get a bit of background on them. But if you're hiring people that are in the industry, I think it's really important to build a winning organization that everybody is very good at one individual thing, that they know how to do, and if you, even when you get to hockey players, if you think about this, I've told hockey players just do one thing better than everybody else. Every NHL player does one thing better, and then the stars do multiple things better. That's what makes a star a star.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're gonna be a third line player, grind it out better than anybody else. Be able to grind it out, be able to cycle the puck, be able to go in there and get dirty and then get off the ice and let the stars come back on the ice. Understand that's what you're there for. You're there to eat up minutes while those guys rest.
Speaker 5:I'd love to ask you a question, just on a player's side. So it's really easy in hindsight to say, oh, neil Smith got Mark Messier. Wins the Stanley Cup makes things easy. Right, that's easy the guy. But when you had to go through the process, when your staff was looking at, okay, can we actually bring this guy in here? How much weight do you pull on the players that have to surround him? Because Mark will tell anyone that wants to hear that none of that could have happened without the players that were on that team and, to your point, the players that did certain things and certain roles. You can't have seven Mark Messiers, although I guess that would be. Maybe him he's a different story, but I think with you, how do you determine, okay, I could bring this guy in a superstar even then. And but how is that person gonna fit within the puzzle and the pieces that I already have in place that he's just not gonna be a high paid player that gets us really no further than where we are now.
Speaker 2:Well, vic, watch this whole thing while I was building the Rangers as a Ranger fan and his dad was a big Ranger fan and so he's, and that's what we have in common, a lot of things. So before we really knew each other, that process was going on. And I gotta tell you, the Messier thing is really funny because in 2024, the trade in 1991, looks like it was a no brainer.
Speaker 2:There were articles written that I was out of my mind doing this and here we go again bringing in an old guy that's passed this time and 31 years old, and you know he's banged up, he's been through so many games and you're giving away youth to get this guy, just the same way we always do here. And I had to believe that what I was doing was right. I wanted to change the culture of the Rangers. Now I don't like saying things bad about what my predecessors were doing, so I'm not saying bad things. What I did know that was that the culture to win wasn't right to win. Ultimately.
Speaker 2:I'd come from the Islanders. Earlier in my career I'd been with Detroit building that up. I'd had two championship teams in the American League, which is just a mini version of the NHL, and I knew the mentality you had to have to win. So where do you turn to get that mentality and plug it into your organization? Well, go to the guys that have one. Try to grab guys that have one who understand the mentality. So nobody would understand it better than Mass. He'd won five cups at that time. Of course there was others that have won five cups Kevin Lo, glenn Anderson, so on. But Messier, who wanted out of Edmonton at the time, was a captain, an obvious leader. Everybody knew that. And so you take a chance, and I mean that, yes, take a chance, because you don't know what you're getting. You can't go in and say how's your wrist, how's your knees, how's your hips, how's your. You know and you hope that your theory is right that in order to be a winner, I gotta bring in a winner, and then you start to build around him with more people that are winners or that have one or that you think can win, and it goes all the way down to the coach.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I hired Keenan, we had just missed the playoffs and I knew that the group that I had with Messier at the front needed a certain type of coach, or else they were just gonna eat coaches alive, like they did to Roger Nielsen. Who could they not eat alive? Well, there was three guys at that time. Who there was Al Arbor, but he was coaching the Islanders. There was Scotty Bowman, but he was coaching Pittsburgh. And then there was Mike Keenan, who had just been fired from Chicago as the GM in Chicago. Mike Keenan had won Canada Cups.
Speaker 2:He coached high level players and my thought process was okay, I need somebody that's used to working with high level guys, and that's what Keenan was used to Roger Nielsen. I love the man, but he wasn't good for high level players. He was good for players who you needed to get to overachieve in order to get to some level underneath the championship level. If you put him with a team of stars, he would try to bring them down to, you know, the middle of the pack again, because that's how he knew how to coach. Mike Keenan was a guy that could push the stars and say ugly things to stars that they've never heard before. In fact, there's a Gretzky story about that. When I could tell you sometime how I ended up with Gretzky was because Mike Keenan said some crap to him in the locker room when he was in St Louis in front of the players, and that was it, for Gretzky was never resigning in St Louis with that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So back to the point. The point is that you bring in in. My theory was get as many winners as you can into the locker room and they know how to win and they want to win. Winners repeat, championship players repeat. Yes, you can have a lot of players who are learning from those championship players. Not everybody that comes on your team wins the Stanley Cup for the second or third time, that a lot of them win it for the first time, but they're gonna learn and the room is gonna become a championship room because of those guys.
Speaker 2:So when I kept getting the Oilers, I mean to me that was the thing that was easier for me to say. When Kevin Lowe's available, yeah, I'd love to have Kevin Lowe, plus I could talk to mess about him. When Teakin' him became available, yeah, well, of course, and right down to the last ones that I got Glenn Anderson at the trading deadline in 94 was he'd played with Messi, he'd been Messi's roommate. Well, I didn't go to Messi and say, can I trade for Glenn Anderson? I knew that Glenn Anderson had championship experience and we had to win that year.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were romping through the league, that was our window and since Keenan didn't like Gartner, okay, well, if I can get Anderson, who's got five cups and he's close with Messi, you know that's gonna add to this base of high level players. But none of it was obvious, none of it was easy, none of it was without criticism. I mean the trading deadline traded for four new players. It's now in the history books, as you know, the brilliance and the mythological trading deadline, but I'll tell you at the time if that didn't work out like I don't think. I'm sitting here on this podcast with you guys because my life goes in a totally different direction than-.
Speaker 5:Probably not I'm gonna look up Larry Brooks's columns back then. Yeah, but you know, and also Mike Lee and Chrissy.
Speaker 4:The foundational aspect of this entire 94 championship was the acquisition of Mark in October of 91.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:And it wasn't just getting a five-time cup winner, it wasn't just getting a guy that had won a handful of cups, including one without Gretz in 1990. It was everything that was surrounding the Ranger franchise with the 54 years and the curse. And not only did you need a guy with championship pedigree, you needed a guy with a level of fearlessness that only Mark Messier had. And I'm giving it to this day that there is no way 94 happens with any other top-end player in the league with the exception of Mark.
Speaker 5:Right and he had Leach and Richter.
Speaker 4:But I think, if I think- no, but they had to learn from Mark. No doubt Because Mark had been there and nobody played with an edge to the level that Mark played with.
Speaker 5:And there's any doubt go.
Speaker 4:Look at the nine minutes of flying elbows and open-eyed blindside hits that Mark delivered during his career.
Speaker 5:But I think that's the point right, that that didn't happen in 94. It wasn't like oh, let's just put in here and it was a process for building. It was like okay, here's one piece and put this in.
Speaker 5:Let's put this in. I don't really like this. Let's move this. Like there's always, I think people just say, oh, new coach, that player, they should win the Stanley Cup.
Speaker 5:I mean, I think it's and we're seeing it like with Edmonton and like it is so hard. It's well, you guys know your limit, but it's so hard. And then you start seeing the mad scientists of the 10 U kids trying to do that and it just becomes like this is not our purpose, guys. The purpose is not. You know, it's a long-term play. It's like, like me, my contention is if you're going to pick a 10-year-old, you should have to keep them till their last year of Pee Wee Hockey. Like that's like if you really want to show me how good of a coach you are and a developer and a visionary talent acquisition person, develop them, pick a 10-year-old and then graduate them at 14, then I'll see how good you are. But I think that's you know, we just go. We all think we're NHL. You know GMs Like oh, don't like that kid, six months, get rid of them. Don't like that kid, six months, get rid of them.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I think that's why I add to that and I mean I watch this year after year and just I'm amazed and shaken my head about this and that is that there are people think, some people think, not everybody oh he's a star player, go get him, add him to our team. We have to be better. If we put a star player on the team. Let me remind you of Patrick Kane and Teresenko getting added to a pretty good team. Go out in the first round to New Jersey. I mean, like it doesn't mean that when you add a star player that your team will be better. In fact, if you add a star player at the wrong time, your team will get worse because he will upset the whole Apple cart, because he'll go in and take the first power play. Somebody will be pissed off because they got to move to the second power play.
Speaker 2:somebody will be pissed off because they're off the power play and on and on, and then that guy drives to practice with his buddy he'll be pissed off for him too, because he's talking about it in the car on the way there and on the way back and the wives are mad, and it goes on and on.
Speaker 1:You know, that's.
Speaker 5:My point is like that is the dance right. That's the ability to really start to see how do you put people in these positions and have a crystal ball and figure it out how that's gonna work. And I think it really is. It is you know. That's why I laugh. You know, I go to the garden a lot. It's a local place for me and there's not one person in the garden doesn't know more than any GM in the garden. So I understand that you know.
Speaker 5:But, I think that's really where you know, that's where we don't see that, as you know, fans can say how come this person's not here? How come that person's not made captain? How can they name that person the captain? He doesn't know anything. You don't know that person, you don't. You're not in the locker room, you're not on the team boss, you're not on the plane, and I think that's where people have to step in.
Speaker 5:You know, again, I know I realize the world we're in and everybody's live, everything's live, but step back, the people that should be there. And it must be so hard for something like you, neil too, to wipe out that noise, especially in a place like New York. You know, maybe if you're in, you know where I it's hard to name any city now that doesn't have a lot of, you know, a lot of media scrutiny, but you're, basically, when you're in a place that like a Toronto or a Montreal or a New York it's, it's you almost have to wipe out the noise. And then it's funny, at the youth hockey level you need to do the same thing, because we're seeing it in Facebook posts and Instagram posts and people get on the chat room. This, you know, this coach sucks. I go. He's a coach of a tenuete.
Speaker 4:How do?
Speaker 5:you know about his conversation. You know he loves your kids. He's always there and he's not chewing tobacco on the bench. Home run, you know you guys are you guys are in a handy game already.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll say this too I know we're running out of time too. That and I think this, this, this alludes to the whole conversation is that creating the environment for your goal could be winning a Stanley Cup, it could be developing youth hockey players, but the creation of that environment, which is a multi-year, sometimes decade long project, is so important. Right, and? And Neil, you said you can put all the all stars on a team. They're not gonna win if the environment's not correct, and I don't know how many. There's countless, exist countless examples of this throughout history in hockey. But the world, it doesn't matter if the environment's not correct.
Speaker 1:And and we said it too, you can screw up an environment. You've spent a lot of time dealing. It is not hard to destroy a team bond. I mean, it is actually quite easy and it can be done in seconds. It takes years to build it and it can be destroyed in minutes by a poor decision or the wrong person in the environment, especially if everyone's not collectively trying to keep that environment together. It's a very delicate process. There is and I think that the best leaders, the best executives, have a really deep understanding of that that environment has to be correct and you have to understand that every environment is a little bit different. I mean, look, I had the real privilege of working for the Rangers and my Flyers fans my Flyers friends always kill me for this but Madison Square Garden is just a different place. I don't know how to explain it to people that haven't been there. It is a different environment than anything else I've ever felt. With that said, philadelphia and the playoffs when the team is good, it's a different environment. And if you don't know how to build the right team, I can use the Philadelphia Phillies as an example. They understand that environment and they still didn't win, which is another part of what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:There's nothing guaranteed. You can have a Stanley Cup Caliber team, you can have a great 10UAAA team, doesn't matter. You are guaranteed nothing. But that's why this is a process, because the pursuit of that goal, while wonderful and painful at the same time, that is the joy is that you have the opportunity to pursue it, and I think that if we approach all coaching and life with that mentality, it creates a totally different outcome for everybody involved. If you know, you can enjoy this together. Listen, before I close this out, I need to confirm this for Mike and Christy and myself. Neil, is it true that NHL GMs do not look at a player's 10UAAA record when selecting them for a team, or is that?
Speaker 1:a pretty big prerequisite when you're bringing someone on board. Well, you know when I was training for Messi.
Speaker 2:I remember going through his Pee Wee record and his Bantam record and then saw how he played in midget. No all we know about is how he played in college or junior and that's it. Okay, you heard it here first on how kids play hockey.
Speaker 1:Listen, guys, you've been very generous with your time today, but I do want to give Christy and Mike any. If you had anything else you wanted to ask or say before we jump off. You guys are great.
Speaker 3:Definitely. I got to tune into your podcast. I was hoping we could get more into just perspective now and then, because you know you have such a great perspective on the game over the years. So I think we need to have you back for part two. Sure.
Speaker 4:I think we'll be there, yeah.
Speaker 1:Mike, any more vector questions before we go?
Speaker 5:No, no, I'm just going to thank you know, besides the thing I'm going to get these guys on and talk about more Cardi and all the boys.
Speaker 1:Those are really what I want to talk about.
Speaker 5:I want to talk to the old-timer guy Tommy Laidlaw and Greshner and those guys. But I think for me it's just thanks a lot. Now it's just another podcast I got to download and listen to and do it.
Speaker 2:Mike, I got a suggestion for you. I know John Tennelli and I think you should do a podcast with him, so it could be Tennelli and Benelli. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:John Tennelli.
Speaker 5:I thought that John Dailey, an unbelievable person, got to watch his kids play up at Brown there. I mean, talk about a team, right, you got Tennelli, you got St Louis. I think you got a bunch of guys on that team, so it's a really good person around the.
Speaker 2:I've known John since I was 18. Awesome.
Speaker 5:Another awesome human being.
Speaker 3:Well, I want to hear Kristi and Gretzky. How's that there, you?
Speaker 1:go. I'm just happy being here. I'll just take whatever I can get.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can't do anything with my name either, so but this weekend we can pick out a moron.
Speaker 3:I'm sure you can.
Speaker 1:The moron podcast no.
Speaker 2:Moron and moron.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you guys for being here today. Again, for those of you listening, check out the NHL Wrap Round. I love that name for multiple reasons, but make sure you check out this podcast. It really is an in-depth look. It will give you insight into today's NHL and, obviously, some great interviews that you're not getting from some other podcasts and, again, that's what I look for when I'm choosing a podcast. So, neil Smith, vic Moron I want to thank you guys sincerely for being here. This has been a wonderful hour and a half almost, and I know that our audience is enjoying it as well. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4:Lee.
Speaker 1:All right, that's going to do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, powered by NHL Sensory. Now make sure you check out hockeysensorynacom for your $50 off. Use the code HockeyNeverStops. That's going to do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. We'll see you on the next one. Skate on. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value. Wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, ourkidsplayhockeycom. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
