Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
Safeguarding Youth Athletes: Insights from Physical Therapist Dr. Addison Lerner-Lentz
In this week's episode of "Our Kids Play Hockey," hosts Lee Elias and Mike Bonelli dive into the crucial topic of youth athlete health and workload management. The episode features a special guest, Dr. Addison Lerner-Lentz, a seasoned expert in physical therapy and sports coaching. With Christie Casciano-Burns on assignment, Lee and Mike lead a conversation that explores the delicate balance between pushing young athletes towards greatness and ensuring they remain healthy and injury-free for the long haul.
Dr. Addison Lerner-Lentz, with nearly 15 years of experience in physical therapy and a decade in coaching collegiate sports, shares her invaluable perspective on physical and cognitive training. As a mother of four and Lee's personal physical therapist, Dr. Lerner-Lentz brings a unique blend of professional expertise and personal experience to the discussion. Her insights into preventing injuries in young athletes and preparing them for the rigors of sports are not just informative but also transformative, offering practical advice for parents and coaches alike.
As the conversation unfolds, Dr. Lerner-Lentz addresses common concerns around youth sports specialization, the risks of early specialization, and the benefits of engaging in multiple sports. She underscores the importance of diversity in sports activities to prevent injuries and promote overall development.
Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the mental and physical aspects of youth sports, learning how to navigate the challenges of competitive sports while prioritizing health and well-being. Dr. Lerner-Lentz's personal stories and professional advice highlight the significance of proper physical therapy, the dangers of pushing through pain, and the long-term implications of sports-related injuries.
Whether you're a parent, coach, or young athlete, this episode offers valuable insights into keeping young sports enthusiasts healthy, happy, and active. Join us for an enlightening conversation on "Our Kids Play Hockey" and discover how to support the health and success of your young athletes.
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of our kids play hockey powered by NHL Sensorina. I'm Lee Elias with Mike Benelli. Christy Casciano-Burns is on assignment today Really, she actually is but today's episode is all about the health of your kids and making sure that they are cognizant to their growing bodies and the correct and recommended types of workloads they should be taking in order to become the best athletes possible, while also making sure they preserve their bodies for the long run, something that, if you're listening to the show, you know what I'm talking about. To do that, we'd like to introduce you to Dr Addison Leonard-Lentz. She is the owner of Pain Relief and Physical Therapy in Havertown, pa, a suburb of Philadelphia, and is an expert in the field of physical therapy.
Speaker 1:Addison has a lot of distinctions that come with a lot of letters after her name, but for the purpose of not making this a 10-minute intro, we will just say that she is just shy of 15 years experience in the field of PT.
Speaker 1:She has over 10 years of experience coaching collegiate sports and she is the mother of four children. And for this show, addison, those are actually extremely high qualifications. I also want to mention that Addison is my PT doctor and she has pulled off what I consider to be two miracles, having fixed a severe back issue that I had, which helped me avoid surgery, and also extended the life of my severely injured left shoulder, which was a result of playing hockey, so that I can continue to play recreationally. Today, I really cannot thank her or the team enough for allowing me to play the game I love and, more importantly, reducing my physical pain significantly, significantly, and it was actually through that process that we discovered that we need to share some of her knowledge to help prevent this from happening to our kids, to my kids, to your kids, and also to prepare them for the rigors of sports as they continue through their youth. It's something that's really important, and I know that parents have a lot of questions. But before we get to those questions, addison, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:No, it's a pleasure. We've been wanting to do this for a while. Addison and I have an affinity for movie quotes. We'll try and keep them to a minimum here today while we talk about the important subject matter. But, addison, before we dive into the tricks of the trade, let's just talk about you as an athlete from youth for a minute here, because I know you've been involved in many team sports. Because I know you've been involved in many team sports, you're also very active today.
Speaker 2:What has your athletic journey looked like? Oh God, you name it, I've played it. So I probably started playing soccer when I was four, just because I had older siblings, so I always had to kind of play up. So I started off as a soccer, played soccer until I was about 12. When I was in third grade I decided to take up basketball. No one in my family played, it was just something that I loved. So I played basketball from third grade straight through college and then I started coaching college basketball. I was at Haverford College for 11 years and then I was at our signage for two, briefly taking a hiatus right now just because of my four young children, really hoping to kind of get back to that, just because I do miss it From there.
Speaker 2:I also played field hockey. So when I was in middle school I decided that I needed something else to do. So I played field hockey and basketball and then by the time I got to high school, I ended up doing cross country in the fall, basketball in the winter, and then I would do track in the summer. Uh, in my mind I just needed something to kind of keep me in shape for the sport that I loved. Um, it was just a different way to kind of just use different muscles, different, uh aspects of team sports, just because track and cross country are very different from basketball, very much a team sport but also very much an individual sport as well. So, um, but also had to learn so many different things because trying to stay stretched and stay warmed up for a track and cross country meet are so totally different than a basketball game.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it sounds pretty lazy to me, um, only doing a few sports with all those kids, but no, that, like, that's amazing. I wanted to qualify that because, um, like, anytime you bring a medical professional on the show, there's always the question of what have they done? What are they doing? You're just extremely well-versed in sports obviously, sports, physical therapy, and then, as I alluded to, in the open, you have done not only the education, but you also are heavily involved in educating new PT people, right, Because every time I come in, there's someone there that you're teaching, or someone there that's that's, uh, I guess in a residency of some sort. Um, you've extended into that, right. So so I don't know if you're still actively with a university or not, but you're always teaching every time I'm there.
Speaker 2:I am yeah. So, um, we we take students from every local university. Um, I mean, we do get some from out of state, but we we get a ton from um Widener to sales used to be you sciences but now is St Joe's just because they merged together so basically any local kind of area we take students in. So very much in the process of kind of teaching, educating them.
Speaker 2:I also am a adjunct professor for Tufts University, so I go up there two, three times a year for a week at a time just to it's a, it's their, their program's like 80% online. So they go up for two weeks at a shot every eight weeks. So it's a very heavy in-person manual based, so able to kind of put our niche on how we treat, to kind of help progress them. I also involved in Maitland seminars, so the hands-on therapy that we do in our clinic is a very specific niche so I actually teach for them as well. So not only do I educate physical therapy students, I also then help educate physical therapists to kind of better their skills in manual therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you only have the four kids. That's it, just the four. And remind me their ages Again, they're young, I know that.
Speaker 2:They are. So I have a five-year-old, I have a three-year-old, and then I have one-year-old twins.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm just going to give the collective audience of the show a minute to breathe, as they've heard that. So, addison, this is what's funny Our co-host, christy Cascio on a Burns one. Yeah, but it's a good question, mike, it's a good question. So, christy, and we would like to know this is kind of a hot button topic right off the bat, edison but how soon is too soon? And she says age for off-ice gym programs, what kind of wear and tear on young muscles and joints if doing too much too soon, what could? And joints, if doing too much too soon, what could happen there? And what's a better alternative for youth athletes, 12 and under, to stay physically fit in the off season? Now, again, I don't think we need to make this hockey specific, but more of there's a lot of questions about you know, what is too soon for someone to be in a gym or working out and what is the, from your opinion, from your professional opinion, the process for a youth athlete to kind of get into this world?
Speaker 2:opinion, the process for a youth athlete to kind of get into this world. So the biggest thing to kind of think about is diversity in sports. So there is a lot of research out there that goes to show that young athletes who specialize too soon actually run the risk to have more injuries. So this kind of looks back to, if you look at people that would everyone would know the most If you look at a LeBron James, an Allen Iverson, a Michael Jordan, the big names out there even we'll go Kobe Bryant, just to the local area people who know those names they did not specialize in a sport. Not one of them specifically played one sport their entire lives. They switched from basketball to football to baseball. I mean, everyone knows the story about Michael Jordan. He didn't make his high school basketball team so he did other things.
Speaker 2:So a lot of research out there just goes to show that if you specialize too early, too soon, you actually run the risk of injuring yourself more just because it's too much repetitive motion to a growing child. We don't finish growing until we're in high school. Some men grow up until they get to college. So when you're still growing and you're still trying to mature into your body. When you're putting all those extra stresses to an area, you're just asking yourself to have those injuries. You see it mostly in those baseball players, especially those young pitchers, who think that, which is not a problem. It's just you're seeing more of the stresses on your elbow and your shoulder because we're not, we're not done growing, so you're still lax, you're still trying to have those uh ligaments, those tendons, those joints kind of form together. Um, honestly, your recommendations of like going into a gym or doing all that type of stuff probably won't even start until you are in middle school, just because at that point you are just so young, so susceptible to any type of injury. It doesn't say that you can't be more involved in one sport versus the other, but it is extremely important to do different sports because it allows your body to have those changes.
Speaker 1:You know, go ahead, Mike.
Speaker 3:No well, the baseball analogy is great analogy. I think you know my, my son played baseball growing up and it was always I always laughed because I I'm immersed in what Addison is talking about, right? I mean, I think, from a hockey perspective, I think one of the sports by far that have done the best job of the reeducation of parents and coaches is USA hockey. I mean, they're they really have led the charge in their long-term athletic development model to play other sports. Now do we follow those guidelines? Great, I would probably venture to say we don't, but at least the science is out there, right? So I used to have these debates with you.
Speaker 3:Addison mentioned, uh, pitchers syndrome, right, with these young kids, and my son was a catcher and the stress that you put on your hips and your legs and your back and he was the only catcher, like he's the only kid that wanted to play catcher. So I would have these debates with the coaches. Like he can't play catcher the whole game. I'm like he's throwing more pitches back to the mound than any single pitcher you have in the whole rotation. So I think that that that education piece has to come from a, you know, an overuse, injury perspective, not just position, cause we see it in goalies too. I mean, we've seen just this year alone multiple NHL goalies, college goalies, having to sit out with real big you know, hip issues and labrum issues and things like that. That. That really can't just be contributed to genetics. There has to be, there's, there's other underlying circumstances in that.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'll say to Mike, this might be a more of an opinion based question for the whole group here but I'm trying to figure out when we made the shift and why we made the shift from when we were all growing up playing a hundred different sports to now that there is like this FOMO of if you don't play hockey year round you're going to lose something and it might. I mean it's it's silly to think about. Right, like kids are so resilient If they're active year round, they're just going to be good athletes. There's nothing you're missing over the spring or summer that you're not going to pick up again in two weeks at the start of the season in August or October. So I'm kind of putting that out there to the whole group here. I'm curious of why this is happening, why there's this FOMO, why organizations kind of create I don't think intentionally but this well, you got to play spring and summer If you want to play in the fall. If you don't do this, you might not make. I mean.
Speaker 3:Because it's us. It's us, it's the people that want to make the money. It has nothing to do with kids' development. It has nothing to do with long-term athletic development success. Allison Addison just mentioned it. She's like well, the facts are the facts. The facts show that if you're a more diverse student or athlete at the youngest levels, the chances of success at the high like if you wanted to do everything you could to get your kid to be a pro, like that was your only goal you, the kid comes out of the womb is like this is going to be a pro hockey player.
Speaker 3:The worst thing you could do is put them into that sport right all the time, year round. You know for, and we, and and addison, maybe you could even mention you know some of the athletes you've had. I mean we, because we see it in like once you, what's your prime? Like in gymnastics 13, like you know it's like. So those scales are different and hot in our hockey world. You, you know the late bloomer is the normal bloomer. Like the 17, 18, 19-year-old phenom is normal compared to gymnastics. Maybe swimming, you know you could go with running as well.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of people who are runners and swimmers. They peak so early because they practice so much. My younger brother was a swimmer. I mean he swam before school and after school. I mean it was Michael Phelps was the first person to say it he ate so much during a day because he swam so much during a day.
Speaker 2:We used to have a running joke with my younger brother and his friends. We called it the Burger King diet. They would go to Burger King twice a day and lose weight and we're like how is that possible? Like you're eating the worst foods under the sun but you're still losing weight? And it's because he was swimming eight 9,000 yards a day. I mean you're in water, so it's gravity eliminating, so it's putting less stress on your body, but it's still providing all of those injuries. You're seeing those shoulders, those knees, those ankles.
Speaker 2:I mean he swam in college. He had a scholarship, a swimming scholarship, but he was so burnt out by time he was a junior in college. He just lost the love for it, um, which unfortunately, I feel like and he started swimming when he was really little. They saw something in him and they knew that he'd be a good swimmer. So he played soccer, but he mainly focused on swimming because he was good at it. And now I can tell you, the last time I've seen my brother get in a pool, he just he could care less to do it. He has no desire to get in there. And most of his friends the exact same way. They're burnt out they're. They're the stresses on their shoulders, their knees. There you see, with runners, as they get older, I mean you're seeing so many injuries of women and men in their forties, fifties, sixties, because their bodies are just so burnt out, because it's just the amount of stress on on their joints.
Speaker 3:I just wanted to add one thing to Christie's question, cause I thought it was a good one that that 12 and under um, I think this specifically was a better alternative for young athletes to stay physically fit in the off season. So I guess first we have to determine is there an off season, right? And then you know in the sport that you're in and I think, more importantly, what I see mostly out of the people that I try to educate myself with it's that there's no 12 and under kid that needs like a physical fitness personal trainer. Like activity is what is the best thing. Would we agree to that? Like activity is what is the best thing. Would we agree to that? I mean that just being active in whatever you're doing is more important than a sports specific type trainer.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I mean, should there be an off season? 100%. Should you just be able to go outside and play with your friends? That's enough active being that you need, like you're going to go play a pickup game of basketball or you're going to go just throw the football around or you're going to go do that. I mean that's enough physical activity for a 12 and under young boy or young girl. That it's, that's all you need. It's just the movement. It's not the stress of, yeah, let's go to the gym, let's go do this. I mean, you see it, those gyms that specifically work on agility. What do you need that for? I mean, you're young, you're little. Once you're older, does that make sense? Absolutely, but you're getting that same movement, just going playing with your friends. Go play tag, go play football, go play basketball. It's the same quick, high intensity movements, but you're having fun with it and you're enjoying it.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny guys. I'll bring this up real quick too. You know, my daughter came up to me the other day and she was asking me about, like in preschool, why they don't do the same type of schoolwork that they're doing now. It was kind of an innocent question and she said, well, we just played all day. And I said, yeah, well, that's what they wanted you to think. I working on gross motor skills and the other types of things, and it's a very diverse environment in terms of what they make you do.
Speaker 1:And we lose the patience with that as soon as they get into organized sports. And the truth is this it's no different than preschool. You should be trying and doing different sports, different things. I always like to mention too that, look, while we all love sports here, there are other extracurricular activities as well, like music and plays, and you know, to me these are also part of the well-rounding of a kid. Again, they're not as physically active, but they are something else to do.
Speaker 1:Another thing I thought Addison, you'll find this funny. So both of my kids are now playing baseball and softball and they're enjoying it. They're not fighting it, they want to go to the field. But Mike softball, and they're enjoying it. They're not fighting it. They want to go to the field. But, mike, this will make you laugh. We're about three weeks removed from the hockey season. They both came up to me recently and said so when are we? When are we playing hockey again? Like, when are we getting on the ice again? And it's actually music to my ears because if they don't try other things, they don't experience the missing of this sport. And this is also how you cultivate love of a game.
Speaker 1:Addison, you mentioned Allen Iverson. We talked about this, actually, in your office not too long ago. There's probably a better football player than a basketball player. A lot of people don't know that, right, like, he could easily have been in the NFL, right, but he loved basketball, right, and he talks about how much he loves that game, right. I don't always like to categorize the greatest of all time in our conversations. I think he's a great example, but the truth is this Any professional athlete, even the one you jar at home for being horrible who's not horrible played multiple sports. They all do.
Speaker 3:No, and they were the best at those sports. Right? That's a funny thing like people miss the fact that the, the worst player in nhl, was the best athlete in anything ever played against hometown like they're.
Speaker 3:Like I couldn't play against that kid. He was the best athlete we ever saw in my life. Because they're not. They're freaks of nature like this is just like a normal human being. Now, they didn't. It's not that they didn't work hard but, to addison's point, they probably did things to build the base of their development through multiple sports and multiple activities and multiple experiences to get them into the place where they ultimately wanted to be sport career. And you said, hey, by the way, whether if you don't make it to pro, you're probably going to have joint pain, you're probably going to have broken bones, you're probably going to have some kind of issues with, you know, your sinuses and your ears and your head and you're going to have all kinds of multiple injuries your hair will your life because because you know the wear and tear you put on your body and and no preventive maintenance going on because you're playing a year-round sport.
Speaker 3:Nobody looks at those kind of things and they just say the end game is I want my son or daughter to play Division I athletics without really knowing what goes into that ultimately down the road and I'm not talking about a 16-year-old parent, I'm talking about a parent of a seven year old- yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's just a funny it's. I think one of the things I think that we all knew need to do a better job in sport is making sure that the people that run the sports are as educated as possible to discuss these things, because I think a lot of parents go in blind and they shouldn't, you know, have to research. I mean, the whole idea of joining an organization is that you're trusting the fact that that organization has the best interest of your student athlete.
Speaker 1:I hope yeah, you know, it would be cool to see more hockey organizations team up with local baseball, basketball, tennis, whatever, pickleball doesn't matter organizations for more of a year round program where they could feed athletes to each other, because I think ice hockey is also a great sport for other athletes, right For baseball players and basketball players to teach them. Let's just round this segment out by saying this and Addison correct me if I'm wrong All studies and research, all of it we preach this all the time points towards you must play multiple sports if you want to be a great athlete. And I don't believe there's anything out there that says, before the age of 12, that sports specific mentality is beneficial. Is that, from your knowledge, all correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so confirmed, go ahead. You can continue on that if you want affirmed.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, you can continue on that if you want. I just going to say I mean the reason I say that is I had literally just spoken with two different doctors and a sports psychologist about that subject, and I mean they also were on the same kind of background that we are. It's just, there's no reason for it. You're just creating. Not only are you creating an unhappy, unhealthy lifestyle for your child developmentally, but mentally as well, because then you feel like you are, this is what they have to do.
Speaker 2:So they have no enjoyment. They feel like they can't go play with their friends. They feel like I have to practice this many days a week and just to go shoot a basketball or go on the ice rink and just skate around with my friends or do this I can't, because my focus is I'm going to get to the NHL or I'm going to get to the NBA or the NFL, and it just completely. Just their psyche just changes and then their nutrition changes and then so not only does it just deal with the physical aspect of it, which I see, you then have that other aspect along with it. You have the nutritional aspect, you then also have the psychosocial aspect of it. So it just becomes this huge kind of rotational force of it's not healthy to do. There's too many aspects that it changes along with just your physical wellbeing.
Speaker 3:I know Lee wants to get off the subject, but I can't yet. So, as we're speaking, can we just maybe discuss then the fact that I can't get away with the comment that no, no, no, my kid's a multi-sport athlete, but he does the other sport during all of the hockey year round that I'm doing, like so. So a lot of people will claim to me like no, no, my mike, my kid's a multi-sport athlete. He plays lacrosse and he plays.
Speaker 3:You know, he's a track and field star, and they did it and I'm like you're always playing hockey, so you're never, never allowing that piece of your body to shut down. And because I, I agree with you. I mean, I think, if you know, like I, I, I personally push kids that I work with to like lacrosse, I think, mentally, spatially, a lot of the things you're doing, lacrosse complement hockey, in my opinion, and soccer the same thing. So in an ideal world for me, it would be like a soccer kid goes to hockey and then goes to lacrosse, but not on Wednesday. You know what I'm saying and that's what we see now.
Speaker 3:On Wednesday we see the kid leaves his soccer trainer, he runs over and does lacrosse and then he runs in with his cleats on to hockey and he's considered a multi-sport athlete. But you're really not, are you? I mean, are you just like, like, just maybe talk about the effects of that, just that piece of the overuse? You know, the mental obviously is there, but just the fact that it actually is not, um, it's, it's, it's not confirming the fact that you're a multi-sport athlete If you're playing multiple sorts all within the same day.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's just all you're doing is just adding an extra stress to your body. So it's like, okay, so I might go play baseball. So I'll be standing in the outfield or doing batting practice or doing this. I'm not just skating up and down the ice all day long. Well, but you are, because you just did it an hour before you came into this practice.
Speaker 2:So if you're going from ice hockey to then baseball, or baseball to basketball, or when are you having time to eat? When are you having time to do your homework? When are you having time to do anything besides sports, sports, sports so that just kind of plays into what you're just saying, mike. You're not, you're not taking a break from anything, and then you're not allowing your body to rest because you're not giving yourself the proper nutrients, you're not giving yourself the proper rest. You're sitting in a car.
Speaker 2:So you just then went from ice hockey on the rink, where you're sweating, you're, you're just kind of going. Then you're sitting in the car for maybe 10, 15 minutes to get to the next practice. So not only were you, nice and loose, sat in the car, stiffened up, and then you're being asked to then go jump right into the next thing. So it's. Then you're up and down again, so that becomes the easiest place to injure yourself as well, because your body's in that like wind down phase, that rest phase phase, that okay, like I can actually relax for a second, and then everything tightens up and then you're asked to, in a split second, to go hard again and it's like that's where you're going to see the strains and the sprains and the quad soreness and muscle soreness, because your body hasn't had that time to adjust. So that's why it sounds silly, but that's why you see it with athletes athletes in cold weather or when you change the environments because they're not used to it. So it becomes that same type of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my Apple watch doesn't give me the opportunity yet to know that an athlete just left and was concussed in a game and the parents are forcing them to come to my practice and I have no idea what they did in that practice. Like, like I can't, you know, I can't tell you how many times, like even even the spring season, my son would leave, like you know, lacrosse practice and then he would go to the hockey skate once a week or whatever it was, and then hockey coach would just drill them into the ground. I'm like these kids literally were on the field for two hours. Like what you did there did nothing for that player. But as a coach, if I'm the second coach, I'm like, well, I don't care, I have no idea what those kids do outside of me, like in our sport environment.
Speaker 3:Right now to Lee's point about like all the organizations talking to each other. They don't, they're actually in conflict with each other. So, like, if I'm a coach that gets a kid at nine o'clock at night, a high school athlete, in spring hockey, I have no idea that they were just on the field for two hours. And as a parent I have to say, well, you know, it's my obligation to say whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't do this Like, you can't go to that practice. And then I think we get into the point of well now, that hurts the team, it hurts my kid. The kid doesn't look the same.
Speaker 3:I struggle every spring at tryouts watching a kid and I know my best athletes are coming from baseball and lacrosse, I know it. I see him walk in. They're all muddy and not anymore Everybody has a turf field, I think. But they all come in, they're sweaty, they're in their old, they're in their uniform from their spring sport. And then we're expecting them to be at the top of their game for three hours during a tryout for hockey in the spring. And I struggle with that. I'm like, well, I don't know, the kid is a, he's a great athlete. He's tired.
Speaker 1:Can't you see that he's tired, he's worn out? There's the mental side of it too, mike. There's a lot, that's a lot of pressure. For how many?
Speaker 3:times can you be?
Speaker 1:can you be at the top of your game? One of the gauges I use, um that I actually think more people should do this is just kind of ask yourself, could I handle this Right? And it's easy to look at a kid and say, well, they can physically do more than an adult and that, look, that's not untrue in terms of energy levels. But you know, if your kid plays three games in a day, I asked myself like I don't think I could handle that. I don't think I could handle that and I'm pretty athletic, you know what I mean. So I just try.
Speaker 3:I can't handle it. All I'm doing is driving yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah Funny note, by the way my kids were playing baseball the other day. You know me, the coach. I was just in the outfield. I'm like, so I just I just have to sit here and watch, that's. That's all I have to do today. It was a very weird situation to be in, but I just think and, addison, I'd love your thoughts on that too of like we put a lot on our kids athletically and I just sometimes I sit around like you know kid, to play two hockey games and a baseball game in a day, like I couldn't handle that right is. Is that, is that a? Am I wrong in thinking that way?
Speaker 2:no, not at all. Um, but I feel like you also have and this is probably going to sound wrong on so many levels, but you have that also flip gear or Mike, you kind of it. Your parents think that you're missing out If you don't do it. You know that your kid is probably one of the is, if not one of the best out there, or you think that they could be the best out there. So, even though they might think that it's not in their child's best interest, they don't want them to miss out. They don't want them to miss that opportunity. So unless a child is willing to step up and be like, I cannot do this which doesn't ever happen, because you also have you have that kid, you don't want to disappoint your parent, you don't want to disappoint your coach, you don't want to.
Speaker 2:it's such a fine line between what's right and what's wrong because I mean, I'm a parent, you get it. You want your kid to do everything, but just knowing what I know. I'm a parent, you get it. You want your kid to do everything, but just knowing what I know. I'm okay if they have to miss something, because I know it's healthier for them. But a lot of parents don't see that. They see that by missing this, they're missing out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think that gets into the conversation Sorry.
Speaker 2:No go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, go ahead, it's your show.
Speaker 3:I think that gets the conversation of you know now, as us, as coaches and parents, like in the messages we're sending to our kids about injury, that you know, if you don't, if you don't fight through that injury, you're soft or you're, you're weak or you're like, you don't like I know, when I was a player, I'm like, if it you're, if you're, if you're not, like have a broken bone, like you've got to go play, like this is, this is like this is life and death.
Speaker 3:I mean, I played in a state championship in high school with broken ribs and my father never I, I look at him. I used to talk to my father like, are you insane? Like you would never, like you don't even let you don't even let my, your grandson, go out of the house if he, if he stubbed his toe and like you know, and I'm, I'm playing, you know, with the doctor spraying, like ice cold, whatever, some kind of numbing agent on your, on your, so you could play in a hockey game where you probably could die. And I think it's so weird, how like, so that maybe talk about that a little bit. Like where, like, so you know, you see, athletes come in all the time with injuries and I'm sure you're like listen, how long have you been hurt with this?
Speaker 1:Like we could have prevented all of this if you would have saw me six months ago, when I walked in, I told Edison I've been dealing with this for 20 years.
Speaker 3:So, that should give you a gauge, yeah well, then she's got to say, okay, this guy's got to be fine and it's not a lie.
Speaker 1:It's not a lie. When I came in for my back issue, which he fixed, it had been a 20 year journey to get to that that room.
Speaker 3:But just think about that 15 year old boy or girl, right that that that you know kind of puts their nose to the grindstone and battles through an injury. And because we're all at, we're all saying you need to do that, maybe talk a little bit about like really forget about the long-term effects, like somebody like Lee had, but just even the short-term messaging that that sends.
Speaker 2:I mean it sends yeah, it's just the wrong message. I mean, I guess the easiest way to put it is is when I tell people that step foot into my clinic, because they're always like, oh, it's just pain. I got to push through the pain and it's just it's going to hurt and it's like well, no, if you're allowing me to push through your pain, then I'm not doing a great job at my job. I'm not expressing to you what it is that I want. My job is to make you feel better. So when I specifically say I really want to be just on the edge of that discomfort, I want to be just on the edge of that discomfort. I'm not looking to drive into your pain because that's not doing you any good. The no pain, no gain is such the wrong notion, but we all grew up that way. It was no pain, no gain. If I'm not feeling the pain, then I'm not getting anything out of this, where it's actually the total opposite philosophy. You shouldn't feel pain because, as I mean, as you feel more pain, as I drive into that pain, all I'm doing is just reiterating more inflammation. So I'm really just irritating that same area. So, okay, so you're having pain when I move your arm or move your leg, or you come in already swollen, already in pain, so you're going to let me drive even further into that pain. Okay, so I'm creating either more scar tissue or I'm creating more inflammation, or I'm creating more pain. So in turn, I've done nothing but created more of that cycle of okay, it's already irritated, so I'm doing this more. So I'm creating more irritation, so now it's going to take that much longer to heal. So that's just how we grow up. I mean, lee said it, you said it, I said it.
Speaker 2:I'm a prime example. Going into my senior year of high school, I was being recruited for basketball. I went down hard the very first day at a basketball camp and it was an away basketball camp. They took me to get x-rays. They thought I had an avulsion fracture in my ankle. My ankle blew up so badly. It was the first week of camp. I wanted to get recruited for basketball. The trainer said you cannot play. I said oh the hell, I can't get my parents on the phone and I'm telling you right now I am playing. They got my parents on the phone. My parents said can you do it? And I said I absolutely can. I played the rest of that camp and shouldn't have. I couldn't play anything the rest of the summer. I injured my ankle so badly. I was out for the rest of the summer. I was playing my basketball tournaments and I wasn't allowed to. They basically were like you can sit and do nothing all summer and then you can play your tournaments and then sit and do nothing, and I truly think that because of this I've had so many further injuries as I grew up.
Speaker 2:My freshman year of college I was supposed to be a starting point guard. I fractured my foot a week before the actual game started. They called it wear and tear. My foot just broke. No rhyme, no reason. I've torn my ACL twice in my left knee. I've also fractured my femoral neck and my right hip. This all were sequential events that occurred after I sprained my ankle going into my senior year of high school. So I am such a firm believer of I pushed myself too hard because I was that no pain, no gain, like I can push myself through this because this is what I want. And my twenties I had nothing but injuries.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I think it. What kind of advice could you give then? Cause I use this term all the time that I'm thinking about it. But I'm like, are you in pain? Or you hurt, like and I've always grown up with the fact that, listen, okay, pain, I get it. That hurt like you get. You get a kid that gets hit with a puck, that hurts, it hurts like that really hurts. But are you hurt? Are you in pain?
Speaker 3:And my, my son will to this day, and I'll probably hear it till till the day I die, is that you know like, oh well, I fell in the playground and he hurt his wrist right and I'm and I'm, you know, the doctor that I am. I went to school for nine years or whatever. So I mean I figured I should be a doctor, but, uh, you know, I'm like, uh, oh, it's fine, it's fine, you can go. So he goes to karate. He's still in pain. He wakes up the next morning my wife brings me the doctor oh yeah, his wrist was broken.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, well, I said, really, he's come out, he's tough enough to. You know, the tough guys don't get hurt, you know that's, that's the bottom line and I think. But I think it was funny how, like I didn't even think about that and now I think about it all the time, like even any kid. I see a kid fall on the ice. I'm like it goes to my brain like, oh, this kid probably has a broken arm, I better get him off the ice. Like the first thing I do, so maybe talk a little bit about that is like, how do we as parents then deal with the question Are you in pain or are you hurt?
Speaker 1:are is this something where uh who's um mel, uh, uh, not mel brooks, yeah, yeah, no, no, her brooks.
Speaker 3:You know, are you. You know like you're, you're. You know your heart is a hell of far away from your, your, you know knee or whatever, when the injury, you know trying to get a player to play. So maybe talk about, like, how do we, how do we justify that? Are you in pain or you hurt? Like, where is that line? From a from a physical, therapist point of view, that now you've now now you've actually made that pain into an injury.
Speaker 2:So, like you said, that becomes a tough one because it becomes actually trusting that your athlete is going to give you the proper information that you need.
Speaker 2:Um, so, like you said, yeah, you get hit with something, oh, it's going to hurt, it's probably going to leave a bruise, it's probably going to. My kind of determination is is it restricting you from doing a specific activity? So when you when, when he broke his wrist, like, were you limited or were you actually having pain when you were moving that wrist back and forth, if it was painful, that's not just a hurt, that's an actual problem that could turn into something. So, when you originally get hit, oh God, yeah, it's going to hurt, but does that linger? So, as you're trying to walk around on it, as you're trying to walk up and down the stairs, as you're trying to grip that soda or that water bottle, you're trying to just move your wrist. If that still is painful, then that no longer is a hurt. That is an actual injury that needs to be addressed and you need to kind of take a step back. That also just relies on your athlete giving you that proper information, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's can you trust them to do that, because they want to play.
Speaker 1:And Addison, it's funny that those are the types of questions that you ask me and the other patients there about our injuries. Right, it's not, it's not well. Could you play hockey today? Do you have any problems reaching above a shelf? You know, I also wanted to comment on this too, kind of kind of generally about what we've been talking about.
Speaker 1:I'm at an age now this is important for the kids out there I'm at an age now where I'm allowing myself to be patient with recovery. When I was 17, I couldn't do that. It was just like you, addison. I was like I got to get back out there, I got to play, I got to move. I'm invincible and one of the things about working with you and, look, I've worked with a lot of PT people in my life and I'm not saying anybody was wrong or bad, but your approach has been so effective and I think a lot of it is because of what you said.
Speaker 1:A is, you know, identified what's going on. You've never pushed me beyond a point that was healthy for me and I noticed that right, because when I came in the first time and again, you have a wide variety of patients some way more severe than me, but I was in a lot of pain and I remember leaving that first meeting of well, you didn't make me do much and that was the point. Looking back on it now, you know what I mean. You identified the problem and then your patience with that process was actually a little infectious for me because, know, there was, there was. For one of them, it took a month or two for the thing to even loosen up enough to the point it was even able to start healing, if you want to put it that way.
Speaker 1:And then with the back, it was finding the right exercises and then being patient of no, you don't need to lift the heavy weight now, you need to build up the strength. And Addison woke me up to the fact that, you know, I had muscle groups I'd never even activated, right. So there was a lot of education which I needed, which I'm, I'm eternally grateful for. You've always been patient with my 6,472 questions, right. And then there was the no, this is a process and you need to walk through the process and if you don't, if you go too fast, you're going to hurt. So I'm kind of turning this into a question. Right To Mike's point when you're injured or hurt, everybody wants to get back as fast as possible. Every kid wants to get back the next day and, believe me, when you're kids listening, when you're 12, 13, 14, it does feel like you can get back very quick because your body does heal.
Speaker 3:And we want them to get back. We do, we want them to get back.
Speaker 1:But you have to listen and respect the process, because if you don't like Addison's story, like my story, this stuff will. It's sequential, right. It leads to other things. My back problem led to a lot of other problems, right? So Addison again turning this into a question, right? Someone's in recovery? We have a lot of people that listen to this show, who reach out to us, says my, my kid broke this or did this. I get at least five to 10 of those a year, of these athletes that we kind of follow because they've been injured, can we just talk about, you know, the process of someone comes in. We'll just say a broad injury at this point, the importance of being patient with that recovery and that that your doctor wants you out there as fast as possible too. But they know, if you jump in month four when you need to wait till month six, you know that's a, that's a decision you're making. It might not be a good one. Can you talk about that recovery from injury for a little?
Speaker 2:bit Absolutely. I mean, I guess, to make it make a little bit more sense, I could give you, just like, an ACL tear, just because a lot of people just so. You have an ACL tear, you have surgery, so within those first four weeks they keep you in a brace. And it's because at that point your ACL is susceptible. They just repaired it, they just said the brace is meant to kind of keep you stable. What people don't realize is why does it take six months? Why does it take this? Why is it that you took me out of the brace and you're still telling me I can only do X, y, z? What people don't realize is between weeks eight and 12, eight and 16, whatever you want to call it your ACL becomes very susceptible. Again. You run a very high risk of re-tearing that ACL. So it's you took me out of the brace. How come I'm still only doing leg raises? How come I'm not able to do agility stuff? How come you're not letting me jump around? I feel like I'm strong, I feel like it can walk around. Yeah, you can do all those things. That's great. But the integrity of that ligament is still so, so susceptible that you do the wrong thing. It's going to retear. So this is so. I mean, that's just an easier example, because you have this kind of like platform where, four to that, four to six weeks, it starts to go up. Everything looks great, you're out of the brace, you feel strong. That kind of will say eight to 12 weeks it starts to go back down because at that point now your body's trying to adjust to not being in a brace, not having that support around it, so that laxity then becomes okay, I've reached the peak. Now I'm coming back down. I'm very susceptible to have an injury again. So it's how come you don't let me do stuff until 12 or 13 weeks? Because that's the point when your ligament is strong enough to do those things.
Speaker 2:It's the same with a fracture A fracture needs a certain amount of time to heal. Do kids heal faster than adults? 100%. Is that why you see 12, 13, 14 year olds that are only in a cast for two to three weeks? Absolutely, because that bone calcifies that much quicker. In adults it doesn't happen as quickly. You're usually in a brace longer, but you take them out too quickly and you put them right back to that impact support. Yeah, it's going to show that that broken bone is healed, it's still susceptible to injury because it's a newly healed bone. So you get hit in that exact same spot and you don't strengthen that area, you're going to be right back to where you were.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things I encourage my young athletes to do now that I didn't do is kind of like a word to the wise is to ask great questions. Right, because I grew up thinking, you know, the last thing I want to do is see a doctor because they're just going to tell me I can't play. That was just my attitude and I think that for parents and young athletes, ask your doctor, ask your PT person these questions right, because if it's explained to you like that, right, well, no, you're actually more susceptible to injury now at this point. It might just at least educate you to the point to make a better decision. Right, because if there's anything I've learned through all of my years playing sports, it's just because you're feeling great doesn't mean that you are great. You know, and you said earlier about you know you can be feeling really good but you don't realize you're completely compromised in that time. But if you don't ask the questions you're not going to, you might not get these answers Again, addison's always been very forthright with hey look, this is why we're doing this.
Speaker 1:Right, not every PT person I've had has done that and, to be fair, some some PT people that they unfortunately gauge of how quickly can I get you back out there, which which is part of it. It's part of it, but it's it's. How quickly can I get you back out there in a positive way. That's healthy, that you're ready to go, as. I do want to shift this again because one of the things that has changed a lot in the PT world is when I was growing up in hockey, it was get in the gym, lift weights, get big, lift weights, lift weights, lift weights.
Speaker 1:And I think we know now that that is, while, part of the puzzle, it is not the entire puzzle anymore. In fact, when we started doing some band workouts and mobility workouts, I remember thinking that this is so light and easy. Um, and again you were like, yeah, it is, but you're actually working out the correct muscles now for the first time, Right? So it doesn't matter if you can lift 50 pounds over your head if you're doing it incorrectly, um, and there's lots of other things in your body that we know about now that are not just looking amazing. So can we talk about, for the parents listening, the importance of mobility, stretching and maybe some action items for, like that 12 and down crowd of like they're not ready to get in the gym yet. But you know you can do X, y and Z at that age.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yes, you kind of touched upon it a little bit. So mobility and stability are kind of the foundation for younger athletes. It's actually almost the foundation for any type of injury, whether you are between eight and 12, 12 to 16, 16 to 24. I mean you can go all the way up, if you don't have the mobility and you don't have the stability to control certain motions, it doesn't matter how much you can lift, you're still going to have that susceptibility for something to wear down and break. I always joke about it in here. Abs Every guy wants them, every girl wants them. They're your pretty muscles. They don't do anything for you. They just look nice and people like to have them. It really doesn't help you. It does nothing for you. You have other small, little tiny muscles that have to activate.
Speaker 1:Mike knows now, you made his day Well that's it Right.
Speaker 3:Exactly, you did it, mike.
Speaker 2:You don't need to have those big muscles to be a great athlete. You just have to have the mobility and stability. Yeah, there are band exercises. It seems like you're not doing anything, but you're working all those little tiny muscles that stabilize the shoulder, stabilize the knee, the hips, the back. Same with mobility you should be able to touch your toes if you can. I mean again, I'm not, I'm one of those. Do as I say, not as I do, because I just have.
Speaker 2:No, I've never liked it and a lot of kids will say the same thing I don't like to stretch, it hurts. I don't like to do this, it doesn't feel right. It's supposed to feel that way because your body is not used to it. So if you can incorporate that into any type of your routines 10, 15 minutes of it it's the best thing that you could do. It doesn't have to be static. Sit down and reach your toes and try to hold that for 15 seconds. It actually should be more of a dynamic type motion, so you could do leg swings back and forth, you could do high knees, you could do butt kicks, you could do walking, lunges, inchworms Anything that's actually getting you motion while you're stretching is probably one of the best things for you Is a sustained stretch. Good For sure, but it's better to actually do it with motion.
Speaker 2:I don't know if any of you watched the NCAA tournament that was just up. You don't see it with the men, but most of the women. If you saw their pregame warmup, they're lying on the baseline. They have mobility bands and they are doing specific mobility exercises to loosen themselves up. A lot of it is just because of women's susceptibility to injury, mainly ACL injury, but they have a specific routine that they do to keep themselves loose. That's something you're seeing more and more, which is extremely important, I think, and it's going to help prevent those types of injuries.
Speaker 1:Well, and I can say too, in hockey, the top athletes I know all do that before they play. All of them, it's not some of them, it's a lot of mobility, it's a lot of movement. It actually freaks me out how little we do that at the youth level, and I do know that, look, kids are obviously more flexible, just naturally. But I, you know, to me it's like build this foundation now, like, why wait till you're 30, 40 years old to start to think, oh, I should stretch? Or or watching Tom Brady go to 45 and realize, oh, it worked for him, even though he's a freak of nature?
Speaker 1:You also talked about looking good versus kind of the feeling good, you know, look, I have met people that are incredibly muscular and get injured very easily because it's a look for them, right, I remember watching the last dance with Michael Jordan. They talked about when he, when he left baseball to come back to basketball, that his body was completely different but he wasn't in basketball shape and they had to kind of almost reconstruct him, right. So I think it's important and, as I'm turning into a question, but, like, when you look at athletics, right, it's not, for this is probably for the younger athletes more. It's not about looking like you know, mr Olympia, it's about having the right strengths for the sport or sports that you're trying to play. Right, because there's an athletic look and there's a bodybuilder look, and I think sometimes we merge those two, unfortunately, right, but I think that's changing a lot now and again.
Speaker 1:You're seeing it now in the more and more in youth athletics. It's not about getting the gym and pump iron. It's about, again, kind of that be well around it, right, use bands, figure out how this works. And again, let's talk specifically to the parents out there, right, let's just say your kid is 12, 11, 10, whatever. They're super serious, right, we have that audience. What would you recommend they go do if they're looking for something extra?
Speaker 2:Honestly, it would be to go find someone who could help them teach mobility or band stuff. I mean, I did it with you, Lee. I mean you probably thought I was crazy at first when I was like, take this band with you before you do your hockey games, Do a couple of these exercises. Let me tell you something real funny there.
Speaker 1:You'll laugh at this. So I do. I do the bands on everything and it's funny because everyone not that I care, but they kind of tease me about it and I said you know, the difference is, I'm going to walk out of here feeling good. You're going to walk out of here not feeling good. Well, you're going to walk in being prepared.
Speaker 3:I mean, I have this argument all the time with youth sports is that we see this all the time in games, but you're in practice, you're on the ice 100 times more than in a game and we don't see it in practice.
Speaker 3:We don't see it enough where kids are like. This is not part of our culture of sport. To you know and again this is where I'll bring up USA Hockey hockey which has done a great job, I mean usa hockey the dynamic warm-up and the, the swedish, finnish model of, you know, uh, being sporty has, you know, came about 10, 12 years ago now. Yeah, I mean, but we still are so behind, far behind, like when I schedule a practice, if my practice is on the ice at seven, practice really does start at six, like you need to be, you need to come in, and I think we need to make dynamic warmups and band training, mobility training. That needs to be part of your practice. Not like I used to laugh at my coaching seminars, like I'd see every eight, you coach, go around and do the circle drill with the kids around the rink and they're and they're doing the leg kicks and they're stretching their hands over their bodies and they're stretching their hamstrings.
Speaker 3:I'm like I don't even think eight-year-olds have hamstrings I'm like they don't need this dress, like they're like what was the last time you saw an eight-year-old get a groin injury? It just doesn't happen because they're so flexible.
Speaker 1:You know, I go out to play tennis and I blow my achilles out.
Speaker 3:So it's like, like you know, just to me it's, it's to me it needs to be a part of um. You know how we construct our practices to build this piece in, because it is the most crucial piece, part of the education, absolutely development.
Speaker 1:And that's where I think coaches sometimes get lost.
Speaker 3:I'm like, wow, they don't really need it right now, no, parents do right because parents like my kid, he'll be at the game, don't worry about it. He'll be at the game, don't worry about it. He'll be at the game, but I can't make it to that practice.
Speaker 1:To make this point, Addison, I want to throw it back to you, but again, this is kind of a word of the wise, and Addison knows this. Look in my mid back. So before, first off, every morning, every night, before every physical activity, I do this band workout that Addison has shown me every time, because I don't ever want to feel that pain or immobility ever again. I mean it was that bad Right. So so I don't I'm saying this kind of at the grace, so I don't care if my guys jab me before the game, because I know I need this Right and more often than not, Addison, they end up start doing it too Right.
Speaker 1:They're like, let me try that thing. I'm like, oh, yeah, so again. I'm sorry I cut you off before, but I had to throw that out there because it's you know, I'm 40 and I'm just learning this Right, and you know, when my kids wake up and they call it Like, yeah, use my stretcher right, stretch your legs out, learn, learn. This is important now. Anyway, edison, I apologize, I did cut you off in the middle of what you were saying.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you're good. I was just going to say I mean it goes back to yours and Mike's point. I mean, so I have gotten a routine that I do with pitchers and I've started to do with catchers. To Mike's point earlier We've had, we've been seeing a lot of younger athletes who are catchers because they're in that position so much that they're just having so just that band work is it's key? Um, to Mike's point before to your point, Lee, you, you coach, you, you both coach. I've coached. They make us take all these different courses for all of these different things about how to get ourself prepared. So why not make us take a coach on mobility or on something that allows us to be able to put that into our practice routine? We have practiced for two hours. Awesome, Half hour of that practice really should be getting them ready, getting them loosen up, mobile, so that way they feel ready. Well, it'll pay off too, in the game.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, cause it gives them stuff that they could do. Or if they are sitting for a while and they need to get ready to get into the game, you have it sitting on the bench. They can do it right there. It's easy to do, it doesn't take up a lot of space, it doesn't take up a lot of time, but it makes them feel prepared and it's not a hard thing to do. It's something that just takes a little bit of time, but it's important in the long run.
Speaker 3:So to be selfish too as a coach. I mean it's a great way to bring your. It's a, it's a forced way where you could bring your athletes together. I mean, in most sports, I mean every sport, you get on the field and then you separate. Like your kids aren't near each other, like hockey, like it's just, it's it's, you're going right, there's no time to hud, you know.
Speaker 3:Then you bring in some of Lee's, you know team building exercises within that mobility type training, it builds a team. It's the only time you have to really get the kids together, working together, and you can make it like it doesn't have to be this monotonous, boring. I mean, I know, when we do our mobility training before, I mean we have a kid, mac Vale, that does some stuff for us in Stanford and this guy, Ivan, I mean he's got the music cranking and the kids have their routine and they have their certain. You know, station one, station two, station three, station four, and they do it and it's all about strength training, but it's all really about mobility, balance, flexibility, all the things that we are going to ask them to do on the ice in the next hour.
Speaker 3:And I think that really becomes the piece of how do we change the dynamic of making sure kids aren't running to the soccer field when the whistle blows for practice. They're actually at the field, walking on, warmed up and ready to go when the field practice starts, and that's a that's a that's a piece of what we need to change in the way we approach youth sports.
Speaker 2:I mean I was. I was always grown up, I'm. All my siblings played sports. I'm sure you same way, like, if you were on time, you were late. If you were 15 minutes early, you're on time. If you were five minutes late, don't even bother showing up. So I mean it's a hard philosophy to get because it's also based on parents Can they get you there? But I mean it truly. That's been my mentality my entire life, not only for my sport coaching, my job, I'm always super early because if I'm early I know I'm on time and it gives me that opportunity to start to do some of my stuff before I even do it with the team. So to your point, mike, like it just it allows you to have that awareness to be ready to go.
Speaker 1:And I won't bring up some of my arrival times and appointments just now, but it's good to know that you feel that way. Look, I'll say this too for the, for the coaches listening, right, and I'm going to make somewhat of a statement here and if you disagree or agree, obviously say what you need to say here. But you know, I can see coaches saying look, I don't always have an hour or 30 minutes before practice myself to get there early to teach these kids. But this is what I think. All you need throughout the season or the sport is one or two times where you teach them and then send the kids home or put it into your apps. You teach them and then send the kids home or put it into your apps. This is a recommended pre-workout or pre-mobility training I'd like you to do before you show up to the field. It's not hard to get this stuff out there. I do think they need some in-person education. This is what it is. You can't just trust them to do it without knowing it. But it's not hard to send this stuff home and to tell the parents. This is why it's important right before you get in the car or get there early, before I'm there and I'd like you to do these exercises Also.
Speaker 1:Things like stretch out straps and bands. They are not going to break the bank, right, there's, there's, there's versions of them that will, but they're not going to break your back. Most of this stuff can be bought for under twenty20, I think, in today's games, and it's a hell of an investment when you think about all the other money we spend, especially in hockey. Right, the ROI on it's there. But, addison, am I correct in saying that? Like, just maybe two or three throughout the season, minimum educational opportunities for a coach to teach the players and then send them home with the stuff? You should be doing this at home, before and after practice.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You could also sprinkle it into practices every five minutes, here and there. To Mike's point, like they're off on separate directions. Bring them in for five minutes and do a quick mobility exercise with them, right, just kind of get their mental focus back. But it doesn't take long, you just need to set routine. So once you give them that routine, it's make it their responsibility to do it, because that's what's going to help with their, their season and their longevity, their injury prevention, which is what we want.
Speaker 3:Maybe we would motivate these parents. It's just maybe have your bill given to them.
Speaker 3:This is what you're in for, so why don't we get, when we get a proactively ahead of this? I think that really, though, it's really a change in like to me. I think that's odd. Change in like to me, I think that's odd. I think it's odd that a parent would fight coming to practice early. But you're not really early, you're coming to practice Like. Our practices do include this preventive and strength training program. I would think that's an addition, like like cause I'll, and I'll push back a little bit with Lee. Like it's great that there are some kids that will do that, but most kids are a creature of. I'm going to do what my friends are doing.
Speaker 3:And that team mentality is you have the three or four kids that are going to go, like they're always going to go outside and shoot. They're always going to go outside and do proprioception drills, they're always going to go outside and challenge themselves to learn how to juggle and things like that. But when you bring a group of children together, all of a sudden the challenge and I think, as a coach, like I want that challenging piece and I want to be able to take a kid that maybe is not my best hockey player but can close their eyes and stand on their toe for, you know, 20 seconds without falling, Like I want that kid to help build them into my team.
Speaker 1:Mike, a few things. One is I was just assuming our audience listens to everything that we say. But that's a good point that you made no number. Number two is I was to be fair, I was more thinking about the parent who maybe just they just physically cannot get there early.
Speaker 3:Right, right, like I right Something for my kid Where's?
Speaker 1:the right.
Speaker 3:Right, you don.
Speaker 1:Right, and then? But on top of that, on top of that, you mentioned my team building earlier, which I appreciate. Most parents are just looking for value, right? When I say team building the parents the first one I always get a little bit well, what is this? Do we need to do it? As soon as they see it, they're there every week, right? I mean, look, there's the odd, you know conflict here or there, but they want to be there. So I think I will make this assumption Most parents, if they see the value in something, they're going to bring their kid right.
Speaker 1:It's just on the coaches and the organization to provide that value. And again, I think that this is something that needs to be taught honestly, from Adams or Mites on Like, you want to create the habit early. It's just like neck guards, right, If you have your kid in a neck guard from the first time they step on the ice, they're probably going to wear it now and they're going to have to for the rest of their youth career, right, and hopefully beyond. But you start young. I guess it's.
Speaker 2:Indoctrination is the right word um to do this if parents think that it's worthwhile.
Speaker 1:Right, it's all about adding value. So, addison, last question for me I've complimented you a lot in this episode. I mean every word of it. I'm very thankful for you and your team every day. For those of you listening again not to make this gushy, but I was in so much pain and I was not able to function, and Addison and her team put me at a place that I really didn't think I could get to again. In fact, in some ways, I feel stronger now than I did several years ago. But I think, addison, one of the compliments that I say to you a lot and you know me, I'm a pretty present person.
Speaker 1:I don't like to look back or look too much forward, but I have said to you many times what I would have done to have you when I was 20 in my life or to have taught me these things when I was younger, when it really could have prevented a lot of the pain. Again, I don't regret anything. I'm not saying here like, oh, I could add a better career. It's not the point. It's just I'm realizing how good you are at your job Now. It wouldn't have helped 20 years ago. You were like a teenager. You probably weren't there yet, but it's not the point, all right. The point I'm trying to make is this is that finding a good doctor and physical therapist is worth its weight, not just in gold, but in adamantium and every fictional metal you've ever heard of in your entire life. So my question to you is this Addison, there's a lot of PT people out there. All right, if I'm a parent or I'm a kid and I'm injured and I have to go to PT like you, do have a choice right.
Speaker 2:What should I be looking for in a great physical therapist? Someone who is actually going to listen to the problem at hand and someone who's going to actually sit down and explain to you why this needs to be done? So if you go somewhere and it's just they're going to assess you and then they're just going to throw exercises at you because this is what they see, without any rationale, it doesn't matter who you are. You're not going to buy into it, because it's why am I doing this? Like you said, ask questions. I love to explain why I do what I do, because I feel like if you understand why you're doing it, you're more likely to do it. I also don't throw 25 exercises at you. Like you said, the first session that you were in you felt like we did nothing.
Speaker 1:I did. I was like, what did we just do?
Speaker 2:But if you physically can't do it, there's no point in doing it because you're going to do it incorrectly, you're going to do it poorly and then you're going to hurt yourself anyways. So it becomes. But also, to your point, ask questions. So if you can ask questions and you get those answers, it's, it has to be that relationship together. Nothing makes you a great therapist, it's just. You have to have that relationship with that person. So do you feel comfortable asking those questions and can they explain why they're doing it? So if you can put those together, I think that makes a great relationship and that's what makes a good therapist, and it's just. But it has to be that give take, because some people aren't going to explain something if you don't ask, because they're just going to assume that you know why. So Well, it's the trust too, and like.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I had to learn to do look, this is true for everybody is, you know, I keep my mouth shut when I'm hurting a lot. I used to, Right, I typically just would like nope, just deal with it. And I realized pretty shortly into our time together that, like no, you got to let her know when you're hurting and then I have to trust you that if you keep going, there's a reason for it, Right, and there's also been times where I said, like I'm really hurting and you said, no, okay, let's not press on that. So there's a trust that exists there of like you're not going to do anything that's going to injure me further, but if you keep pushing me beyond what's comfortable, what you have to do, I just have to trust that you're doing the right job, and there's been nothing in our time together that has threatened that ever. So I'm just commenting, as I guess a patient, that's what I look for is.
Speaker 1:You've always answered all my questions, no matter how ridiculous they are. I try and be mindful of your time as well, but those are the things that matter here. Right Is great questions demand great answers. If your only question is when can I play again? You're not going to get a great answer to that, Like, because the answer is when you're ready. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, mike, you had something you wanted to say. There, too, I could see it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I just if Addison can throw on a hockey helmet and hold a stick and then if, if, if, caitlin could just rebrand that beginning statement of what to look for and a good therapist. You know, personal trainer is really just what we all talk about, about when you want to get a private lesson hockey coach, if they don't ask who you are, what you're doing, how you want to improve, what your threshold is, what your goals are, how I'm going to get you there, if all those questions aren't asked, just like I would with a PT, take your checkbook and your credit card and run away as fast as you can Run. If a person just lays you on a tabletop and throws a roller on your back and is watching the TV, you know the the tv while they're. You know while they're asking you if your back hurts and run away. I mean, I think it's simple, like a good, a good person with your qualifications and you know, and I'm sure a lot of the audience has had so many people in pt, hopefully not with their kids, but with them, them as adults.
Speaker 3:Um, it's the same thing when you look for for good coaches and good people, like make sure that somebody is invested in you before you spend your money and, more importantly, your time and, uh, you know, get the most out of it. So it's a really I think it's just a great point across the board. Um, because I think I don't think enough parents ask those questions. I think you know they just they just open the door and you go in and they hope for the best. They just open the door and you go in and they hope for the best, and sometimes you got to make sure you have somebody there that's going to ask the questions back to you too, to validate you know what you're paying for and, again, what you're giving your time to well, I will say that I am thankful, uh, that I met one of the best in addison, and I'm very thankful for your time here today, addison.
Speaker 1:I know you got a busy day ahead of you, so I appreciate you donating so much to us. But look, it's all really great points and look, there are a lot of great PT doctors out there. I think we've identified today, you know, ways to move forward when you have an injury, things to look for to be prevented for an injury, and then also things to look forward to when, when you're, you're needing to see someone, right, and again, you do have a choice, right, don't just go on google like figure this out. Look, you know what I mean. Um, uh, but uh, one of the best is in haverstown, pennsylvania, addison. Uh, before I close this out, I just want to thank you so much for for giving us so much time today. I do know how busy you are and it means a lot, and a lot to our audience as well. I know we all learned something today thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, it was fun was absolutely fun.
Speaker 1:We'll have you back again in the future for part two of our kids play hockey with Addison Looner Lens. But that's going to do it for this episode. For Mike Benelli, I'm Leo Elias. That's been Addison Looner Lens.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to our kids play hockey, powered by NHL sensory, and remember all of the episodes available. Our kids play hockeycom and you can always email us us team at ourkidsplayhockeycom. If you have a question for us or if you want me to push one on Addison, I may do it and answer it back on the air if she has time. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you on the next episode. Skate on. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value, wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, ourkidsplayhockey. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
