Our Kids Play Hockey

Dave Caruso's Journey from Non-Traditional Roots to Hockey Leadership

• Season 1 • Episode 245

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On this week's episode of "Our Kids Play Hockey" we chat with Dave Caruso, former Ohio State University goaltender and professional player, now the Senior Director of Hockey Programming for the Columbus Blue Jackets. From growing up in non-traditional hockey markets to coaching in the New Jersey Devils organization and contributing to the U.S. Youth Olympic team's recent gold medal success, Dave shares his unique insights and experiences that span across playing, coaching, and administration in hockey.

Episode Highlights:

  1. Introduction and Background:
    • Introduction of Dave, detailing his journey from a youth player in non-traditional markets to a significant figure in hockey coaching and programming.
    • Overview of his career milestones including his tenure at Ohio State, professional playing years, and coaching roles within the NHL and Youth Olympics.
  2. Early Years and Development:
    • Dave discusses his early years in Georgia, a non-traditional hockey market, and how he got involved in the sport through family connections and local influences.
    • Reflections on the impact of local heroes and NHL ties in fostering his love for hockey.
  3. Professional Playing and Transition to Coaching:
    • Insights into the transition from playing at Ohio State and in the AHL and ECHL, to taking on coaching roles.
    • Dave shares his experiences and challenges faced while coaching in the professional ranks and the different dynamics of coaching vs. playing.
  4. Role with Columbus Blue Jackets and Youth Olympics Success:
    • Discussion on his current role with the Columbus Blue Jackets, focusing on developing hockey programming and encouraging youth participation.
    • Behind-the-scenes look at the 2024 U.S. Youth Olympic team's preparation and triumph, highlighting the strategic and psychological aspects of coaching young athletes at an elite level.
  5. Advice for Aspiring Hockey Professionals and Coaches:
    • Dave offers advice to young players and coaches aspiring to make their mark in the sport, emphasizing development, patience, and the importance of passion for hockey.
    • Insights into what it takes to succeed not just on the ice, but also in the realms of coaching and hockey programming.

We wrap up with Dave's thoughts on the future of hockey development in the US, especially in non-traditional markets, and how the sport can continue to grow through focused youth engagement and proper coaching methodologies. Join us as we delve into a stor

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Speaker 1:

Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, powered by NHL Senserina. I'm Lee Elias, with Mike Benelli and Christy Cash and Anna Burns, and our guest today spent four seasons as a goaltender for the Ohio State University men's ice hockey team from 2002 to 2006, and played six seasons of professional hockey in the AHL and ECHL, which was then followed by two years of coaching in the New Jersey Devils organization. Today, he is the senior director of hockey programming for the Columbus Blue Jackets and was recently an assistant for the 2024 US Youth Olympic men's ice hockey team, who won the gold medal this past winter with a 4-0 win over Chechya. There are plenty of more coaching and mentorship qualifications. I mean a lot of them that we could go over, but I believe a gold medal for the USA is pretty much strong enough for this audience. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Dave Caruso to the show today. Dave, welcome to Our Kids Play Highockey.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much, appreciate it, so thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

No, we're excited to have you, Dave, and I'll tell you. There's a few things here that I want to go over Again. You played pro hockey, you coached pro hockey. You coached international hockey. You work in pro hockey. I saw in your bio you were born in Queens, New York. So all of New York right now listening to this is going, yeah, Queens, but you were raised in Roswell, Georgia, and, from what you said in the pre-show, from seven years old, all the way through high school, you lived in Georgia. That is not a traditional hockey market. Tell me about how the game found you and your journey through youth hockey, leading you up to college.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's not your typical road to play college hockey or road to play um professionally. It was a really great experience. So, as you said, I grew up in in um new york. Till I was seven my uncle played for connecticut college, division three, so he was uh kind of got us started and my grandmother worked at uh kaniak park where the islanders were playing. So it's in the blood um on all that. And uh started up there in brian trottier's rink and um uh kind of a a crazy story with uh. We're with uh doing the olympics. Uh, one of the players on our team was parker trottier, brian's grandson, so it was a really cool thing to and um, the two other assistant coaches were from long island so we had a lot of connection to Brian Trottier, his rink right like in and going through.

Speaker 2:

So moved out of Georgia when I was seven and they had hockey and I think it was three rinks and we had to travel to those rinks every single time to play. But it was a really great experience. We had the Atlanta Flames left a handful of years earlier. This was 1989. Had the Atlanta Flames left a handful of years earlier? This was 1989. So you had some ex-NHL moms and dads or dads that were coaching us. So guys like Dan Bouchard would be a name that you can remember as Patrick Waugh's favorite goalie growing up. I was coached by a guy named Randy Maneri for quite a few years and he played in the NHL for the flames and a couple other teams. So some really good coaches and people down there and it was a really tight knit community. We had to travel a lot to go play games in Charlotte, nashville, huntsville, and that was where a lot of the games were. But really what happened was what we did together as a group. Like we played a ton of street hockey out in the street we played.

Speaker 2:

When I was around high school they built a new facility that had two ice sheets and one roller rink and I pretty much lived there. I like I stayed overnight there. I I was, I worked there, worked in the pro shop. They had a taco bell as a concession and you know how that, how healthy that is. So I had the that type of stuff, but it was a really great time in Georgia, and after me there's actually a handful of division one players and some pro players.

Speaker 2:

After that there's a kid named Brad Miller who played at North Dakota and has played a ton of years pro. He just recently retired, so you don't need to. Your typical path is not. You know you don't need to be playing following how many A's you have. After I graduated high school, I played junior hockey up in Boston for essentially a Tier 3 junior team and I was lucky enough that coach or that team we had three Division I goalies play on our team. So a kid played for UMass Lowell, a player played for Bowling Green and myself and that connection was actually from a player that I played with my 14 and under team. So it was really really cool. And Ohio State came and you know, big school, awesome environment and really cool experience there.

Speaker 1:

What kind of drive times are we talking about to these rinks? I think that's important for the audience to know.

Speaker 2:

So so you got to think of what Atlanta is. Atlanta is a big, a pretty big city with a lot of their stuff pretty far apart. So, compared to see, I live in Columbus where I think 25 minutes is a long drive here, but in Atlanta we had one rink around 20 minutes away, or two rinks around 20 minutes, and then we had one rink around 45. So you know significant drive times and off of there, but when we were younger it was a little bit closer than the 45 and 45 was few and far between. So but I want to thank my parents for driving me that way.

Speaker 1:

I can say that again. You know, I want to say this too. When we talk about this on the show all the time, you look at a non-traditional hockey market, I think a lot of parents think and I'm going to dive into college shortly but a lot of parents think, well, I have to be where the best players are. I got to be where the most players are. I mean, mike has to deal with this all the time in the severely clogged Northeast, northeast, uh.

Speaker 1:

But dave, you're making a great point that you know. I'm not saying location doesn't matter, but talent is talent and you can find talent wherever you go, whether it's in georgia or you know there's a lot of talent coming out of arizona right now that people don't talk about, right? So I just I wanted to reiterate the point that you had made. I mean, please feel free to comment on it that you know, for all the parents listening, that your location is not everything right. A lot of it comes down to the drive, the coaching. You said it. There were NHL players that were there coaching, right? It just proves, kind of the point of the show that development is key, not the amount of letters next to your name, not the prestigiousness of the jacket logo that you're wearing. I'm not discounting programs when I say that, but it comes down to development and making sure that you're placed correctly to make sure you're the better player.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the development is more than just on the ice stuff. So what you're trying to build until you're 14 and older is that love of the game. So there's a lot, a lot of studies and a lot of evidence that says of kids entering you know these elite prestigious things too early and it's actually causing more, it's not working out for them. So there's a paper that I just read on Twitter about you know these elite academies that they take kids really, really early and they're not working out. You might have the one, but you could also win the lottery too. And it's the same same, pretty much the same percentage point.

Speaker 2:

So how can you, how can you have your, your family and help your child as best you can? And helping your child is sampling multiple sports, staying together and being a family unit and having them enjoy the experience, not how how long I can drive in the car so they can watch their iPad.

Speaker 1:

Right, christy, mike, this sounds very familiar. It's shocking.

Speaker 3:

It's shocking to me that you can't that the academies for eight-year-olds aren't working Right.

Speaker 4:

And did your parents feel any kind of a pressure? Because Atlanta is such a you know, I always think of it as sort of a unique area for hockey. It's like here it's everywhere, but Atlanta you might have felt a little bit like an outsider with a lot of your friends.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 4:

You know, in school.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I was the hockey guy in school. They didn't know really what that was all about, really.

Speaker 1:

It'll never work out. It's never going to pan out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I was lucky enough. I lived on a cul-de-sac and was playing street hockey every day. You know just when I was young and just by myself, stick killing all that good stuff, and our neighbor called me on, I was like what's that he's playing? She had no clue what, what, what I was doing, what I was doing out there, and. But it has really grown Like.

Speaker 2:

The thrashers came in towards the end, right by the end of my high school. They're making a strong push again for possibly another team down in Atlanta, but but I think it's just a really important thing to remember that. You know, it's really about the love and the desire of the child and not the love and the desire of the parent. You might, you're there to help, facilitate and help them, but I know my parents.

Speaker 2:

When I was growing up in Georgia it was tough for them. They're like, oh man, he really wants to go play prep school, he wants to do this, he wants to do that, but I wasn't fortunate enough to have that money to go to those prep schools or go there. So what they did is just help, support me as best I can and gave me that vehicle to go to the rink and just play, or go outside and play as much as I can, and in the end, like we said, the talent gets shown. And now, especially now, there is so much opportunity for kids playing, no matter where they are, and if they have the love, they're going to be found. There's live barn, there's everything right, like it's. It's even better now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'll add onto that, dave, that I love what you said about the drive. We always say you can cultivate a love for your child in the game, but you cannot create it, Right, and I think that the cultivation of that is key, right? You can't put it in this audience that you're speaking to today. I know they believe in that, because I think that's one of the things that the audience is so curious about is you know? Hey, I just want to know if I'm doing an okay job, and we always like to say, if you're listening to the show, not not patting ourselves on the back, you're probably doing an okay job because you're trying to learn how to do this, right? But I'm that you and I are at the same age for rollerblades.

Speaker 1:

I remember rollerblades came out when I was a very young kid and that's what we did after school. We would go outside and play hockey, and I think that today there's a lot of excuses of well, you know the ice time, yet get outside and play. Get outside and play anything. By the way, it doesn't have to just be hockey. I always like to give little reports about my kids' hockey journey too. Mike and Christy have been, honestly, the greatest mentors for me in history. I'm so blessed I get to do this show, but both of my kids are playing baseball and softball right now, which is new for me, completely new.

Speaker 1:

Right, we take off the spring. I can already see how this is improving their hockey game. If you want to look at it like that. I mean, just as kids, they're having a good time, they're becoming better at playing baseball and softball. But as a hockey guy, I can see it transferring right and it's like I just give them the distance because I don't really know baseball. I'm not going to sit there and coach them right, and it's been a really cool experience to see them play another sport. So it's just more proof. I think and again I'm only one example that your kids should be playing multiple sports or multiple variations of a sport. Right, it can't just be the same thing all the time. There is no study, none, that shows that early specialization or elite play throughout seven to 18 works. There's nothing, or, as you said, it's infinitesimal.

Speaker 3:

There's anecdotal evidence, right.

Speaker 3:

So I think this is where we have this dilemma, because and Dave really is so unique here to talk about this because he was really a lot of his coaching education from the youth perspective was done through USA Hockey and through all of their studies and all through all of the you know that we paid for right, we our membership dollars made in the NHL, made sure that we could get as much information as possible to help us not only grow the sport, to just make better kids. So maybe, dave, you could talk a little bit about like that transition from like I hear it every day now like, oh well, what am I going to do in the off season? And these are like nine-year-olds, I'm like, what off season? I said, how did, how have you, how have you designated the fact that your kid is a hockey player, like, but now I'm seeing, seeing it in every sport, like I've seen kids that just they and it used to be, I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I I've always, the last couple of years, I've been trying to pinpoint like when did that shift happen and why has it happened, other than the fact that people think they could? You know, maybe a kid could go play pro hockey, uh, you know. Or or pro you know, play pro baseball, or whatever. It is like that.

Speaker 1:

They they think they have the secret ingredient that their kid can get I can tell you exactly when it happened mike, with the advent of social media and we're seeing everybody else outside or everybody else doing something, and the fomo went out of control yeah.

Speaker 3:

But so, dave, just talk a little bit about that. Like, okay, so when usa hockey I think in the early 2000s it came out with the adm and the whole long-term athletic development model and and the ability to now, like um, articulate what that was although a lot of great coaches were already doing those things, it's just now it was really articulated and the pushback on that was unbelievable in my opinion. But like, really where? Because you, you said a couple things like okay, I'm on the cul-de-sac, I'm playing, I'm outside, people are looking at me like I'm some kind of weirdo with a stick and a ball running around the yard. That shift.

Speaker 3:

I mean, obviously video games and phones and social media have affected all of this. Right, because I see that every day, where it's so much easier for kids just to go sit on a phone all day, when, if you didn't have a phone or you didn't have an ipad or you didn't have an xbox, you'd be forced to go outside and do something because you'd be so bored out of your mind that you, you know you'd have to go do something. But maybe just talk a little bit about the, the fact that, that this transition, and then how, especially how, what you're doing now in your, in your role with columbus, that you're trying to kind of bridge all those gaps together again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because it's real, right, Like the fear of missing out is real for everybody, the social media, and there's a lot of short-term gains that you will see if you have your child do this. You know so many times on the ice there will be an improvement, right. But how is that improvement over the long term and it's hard for a lot of people and families to see is, hey, if I kind of back them off a little bit of doing all this on ice stuff and all this, but I put them in gymnastics or I put them in tennis or I put them in baseball or I put them in lacrosse, they're going to be a little slower, maybe not as good when the season starts in.

Speaker 2:

Now it's like July for some of them and but they're going to be a little bit slower but the longterm they're going to be not as injured as much. In the longterm they're going to be way better in their athletic development and they're going to be able to raise the ceiling. Talk about raising the ceiling right, like you, but by helping your kid do a multiple different sports, different things, gym that I'm saying gymnastics twice because I think it's an overlooked thing that not enough families. If you, if you want the key for your kid and you really want them to to be successful, throw them in gymnastics, throw them in parkour, throw them in ninja training and just have them do that when they're really young, as much as they can. They might not love it. If you're going to force anything, freaking, force that, because that's going to develop them for their athleticism, for that base stuff.

Speaker 3:

Let me just let one little point there, because I know a lot of our parents that listen to us and when we're on every week, we're talking about the, the, the diversity of an athlete, right, and I think I mean I'm, I'm a big, you know huge gymnastics, parkour, but it's, isn't it crazy, though We've had to develop playgrounds to pay for and join and coach. Then when, when everyone like when I grew up, you just played, I did parkour, I did gymnastics, I flipped and broke my skull open, these are the kind of things that we all did as kids, and this is what frustrates me the most. I'll get you back to your point. The parents that are in charge of all this had that experience. They didn't pay for somebody to teach them how to jump from monkey bar to monkey bar, but now we are you need the perfect technique.

Speaker 2:

Right, you need the perfect technique to jump to the one monkey bar to the next.

Speaker 3:

You cannot swing across those four monkey bars that way. You must have a better cadence and your grip is wrong and you know, I'm like this is crazy, Like we're actually teaching this now, and I think that's. It's sad actually for a lot of kids, Right Cause I go, I live literally, you know, nine houses away from a playground and is like crickets, crickets, and if the and the ones that are there, it's the kids are being instructed there, it's so weird, but I don't, I just. But it keeps coming back to back to this I call professionalization of youth sports, but it's really just the, I don't know what it is. It's. It's like taking the child, it's the, the bubbleization of the kid, maybe more than anything.

Speaker 2:

And you think of from the parents. It's a like they want to do the best for their kids and trying to help them Right, like it's not, like they're like, man, I'm gonna really screw them up now and we're not, we're gonna do all this stuff and you are. You are really helping them, right, like by giving them that opportunity to explore in their in a space on their own, rather than saying, hey, you need to do this to this, to this, to this, and I think having that and um, like one little thing that we do here in columb, we started a I call it a the fish bowl. So we, at eight U and six U, we play cross ice hockey, not half ice, cross ice to get smaller spaces, just like Sweden and Finland. Have you talked about the IIHF small area game? Study on here.

Speaker 1:

We mentioned it before.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's game changer, so so they did a terrific. If you haven't heard this is your first time listening iihf small area game study and it will blow your mind of what the amount of stuff that they put into there. So we do cross-ice hockey uh, as small numbers as we can 3v3 but in the middle we have a thing called a fishbowl, which is just a free play area, and you know we're battling with some families that say, hey, what are they doing? They need this, they need that they need, structure, they need structure, dave.

Speaker 2:

Right, hey, there's a puck, there's cones, there's whatever, there's a net. Just go out and just got to make sure that they're not shooting it at you. Right, and you just got to keep control of that. If they're shooting, throw ringettes out there or other things. So I think that's an important piece that we're trying to build within our programming of this free play zone. Right, like, they don't need that time. They have tons of structured time at school with you as a mom or dad. Right, like, hey, we got to do this, we got to do this, we got to travel here. How can they get out and explore on their own? Because that exploration will really help them be able to make those decisions. Because you want decision maker kids. Right, like that's what you want and they got to be able to make decisions.

Speaker 4:

That's very true. That creative play is so important because you can't go out on the ice and hold their hands and help them make decisions, especially in some really tense situations game time where they've got to think on their own. You're not out there instructing them and I've always found that that creative free play the kids are more apt to try things that they wouldn't normally try under a structured environment. They're so afraid to make a mistake.

Speaker 4:

With that free play. They're making mistakes, they're pushing themselves, they're playing outside the box, so to speak, pushing their boundaries. Um, yeah, I'm all about that.

Speaker 3:

I'm so glad you brought that up well, chris, today do have the new earpiece now. Right that you can put it. I mean, I think that's going to be, that's going to be a hit in the next couple of years.

Speaker 4:

Okay, shoot right now. Okay, get the puck.

Speaker 2:

OSHA, Ohio High School Athletic Association, approved for the catcher of a baseball in high school to be able to have a watch that the coach can tell them what the call is for the pitcher. That's awful. I read it. I saw the newspaper, I threw it out. I'm like what are we doing here? What?

Speaker 4:

are we doing? I'll say this too yeah.

Speaker 1:

Just all the coaches out there, right? I always because I coach a lot of coaches and I say, are you coaching or doing play-by-play on the bench? Yeah, Right, Because there's a huge difference. I have been on the bench and seen coaches telling the players and at the younger ages I understand the urge to do this but you have to hold back to tell go here, do this, do that, move the puck here. You got to let them figure it out. Right? I always say, Dave, I love your thoughts on this. Coach on the bench, coach the kids on the bench when we're talking about youth players, Right, and minimal instruction on the ice.

Speaker 3:

So hard to do, like I just. I just competed in lacrosse this weekend with my son and I'm the quietest coach on the sideline there is. I mean literally. I mean unless a kid gets a two-hander across the head. I'm pretty, I'm like, okay, let's just the kid could be running the wrong way to a different field and I'm like, well, I guess he'll figure it out at some point. I mean, what are you?

Speaker 2:

going to do.

Speaker 3:

But literally watching the two coaches the two head coaches, run up and down the sidelines, almost running into each other, and then yelling instructions and the kid just frozen. He's just like I don't know where to go. And who just yelled at me? Was it my dad? Was it my coach? Was it the assistant coach? Was it another player? It's so crazy. It is, and all of us from the hockey perspective it's funny because you know as a player, right dave, when you're on the ice you don't know what the hell anybody's saying.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, you can't hear anybody well, think about it, mike, like when you yell, especially if you're talking like an eight. You, if you yell, hey, do this. They'll just stop on the ice and look at you. They they're like that's what they're taught to do as little kids, right, so that hey you need to go faster.

Speaker 3:

What did you say? What do you want me to do Faster? Yeah, look what.

Speaker 1:

I'm looking for and let's kind of flip this a little bit to the player perspective what I'm looking for on the ice if I was playing, from a coach or even my teammates, is a heads-up of stuff I can't see right. There's pressure on you, there's a guy on your left, like that's the type of stuff I'm looking for, but step by step instructions about a breakout. That's probably not even what we do at higher levels anymore. Again, there's a line, right, you got to instruct.

Speaker 1:

I'm not saying you shouldn't instruct the kids, but I'm saying that coaching the kids on the bench, where they're sitting there and they're actually able to listen to you, is better than screaming at them on the ice. Able to listen to you is better than screaming at them on the ice. And I'm going to equate this back, dave, to the creativity side of it, of when I coach. What I'm looking for as a coach is I have my parameters of the systems we're playing or the situations that we're trying to create, and I want you to be creative within that structure, right? But I don't want to tell you exactly what to do every single second that you're on the ice or in the game or whatever sport.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think that's one of the interesting parts about what Dave's talked about the IHF study is that at the younger levels there is no expectation of a system or structure. The expectation is did your son or daughter like being out there and did they love coming back? And I think, all the other stuff. What?

Speaker 2:

am I paying?

Speaker 3:

for Mike. What am I paying for, mike? What am I paying for, right? What am I paying for? Well, that's a whole nother issue, like a lot of that, a lot. And the European system is actually so much different too, because those kids aren't paying like what we're paying, like they're, they're a community program, like so, when you live stefano, norway, you don't play in oslo like you don't drive, you don't, you don't get on a plane and go play somewhere else, like you're just not allowed to and and and, frankly, there's no teams, right, they're just everybody's playing. So but again, so there's pros and cons. I get it.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I could, really I could sit down it's a debate, for sure it's not actually comes such a unique perspective too which is the great having him on is he's done all those studies overseas, like, like he's seen the European system like firsthand, like hands-on. So I think, dave, maybe you know not to compare and contrast, but talk about like why do we have these challenges? Like, why are we always trying to mimic what they're doing, when the fact is we have the most players in the world playing hockey?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so probably the biggest difference with the european compared to us is they have to be really, really good at developing all their players. And, um, there's a saying over there and that says to as long as possible, as many as possible, sorry for as many as possible, as long as possible in the best environment possible. So, uh, if you really break that down is making sure that they keep as many players and trying to get as many players into the sport. Keep them as long as possible, because they don't know if little Susie or little Johnny or maybe a different name, if they're over in Europe would be able to like they don't know.

Speaker 2:

They just might not be as developed right now when they're a six year old or eight year old or a nine year old. So having them in the best environment and the best environment is, you know, doing the right things for them on and off the ice, making sure that they're getting a lot of touches, having a lot of fun, a lot of decision. It's not about going around cones and just uh, coning them up. Um for that, which is not appropriate in terms of some of the stuff that we talked about earlier. Um, and it's it's hard for us here in the united states and canada because we all um like what you said, it's you're paying more money to participate. So they, they're thinking that, hey, I need this coaching or that coaching.

Speaker 2:

And kind of going back to the point of like, uh, being quiet on the bench, right Like, as a coach, and I think coaches feel like I'm not doing anything. I'm not, I'm not, uh, you know if they're paid or not paid like I'm not doing anything, but you are doing a lot of stuff. So some things that you can do is you can have a little notepad and you watch Lee on the ice and he does this, right Like, and you just notice hey, blue line. And then you have that question for Lee. Hey, lee, what did you notice when you have the puck right at the blue line, you know? And now Lee's talking and maybe he says maybe you say nothing, like you say absolutely not. Hey, next time when you're out there, I want you to really think about what's happening, what you're seeing, because I'm going to ask you a similar question Now. You got the kid deciding, or making the decision, and thinking about those decisions that they make on the ice.

Speaker 1:

You know, dave, it's such a great inflection point you just brought up, because I think a lot of times in youth hockey and coaching keeping in mind too, that most coaches at that age level are volunteers and God bless every one of you, I mean that. But the question, the curiosity, that approach is so important, and this is a problem in schools too. Right, you need to teach the kids to think. Right, if you get militant kids that just do what you say, the ceiling for that is very, very low. Right, when you talk about it and we can equate this to you when you look at the pro athlete, there's clear decision-making skill sets there and those decision skill sets are actually what set them apart.

Speaker 1:

I believe it was John Tortorella was talking early in the season about the Flyers that there were two players on the cusp and he said well, I picked this guy because he was willing to take risks and I thought that was the greatest answer coming from one of the hardest coaches. Right, that he's saying I'm looking for that. You got to live with the consequences of those risks if they're bad, but I need someone who's willing to do that. I mean, let's go outside hockey for a minute If you want to do anything in life, you got to be willing to take risks and make decisions and you got to fail. Well, you got to fail often and early and learn, all right, and that we we see with the kids that get into college and beyond college that have no decision making skill sets. They have extreme problems outside of high school. Christy, sorry, did you want to jump in on that?

Speaker 4:

No, I completely agree with you, and you can see them on the ice the kids who've been, you know, robotically coached and those who've been able to really come of their own and make those important decisions in a split second, and they've got real good game awareness, you know, you can see that. You pick them right out.

Speaker 2:

And it's hard sometimes as parents and you're watching your kid and you want them to have that awareness and they're not and you're doing all this stuff.

Speaker 2:

Hey, we're going to do private lessons, we're going to do all this, we're going to really get the best coach, but in the end it's probably the practice environment that is happening for your child, that they're not getting that going around a scripted path. You got to go this way, this way, and then take a shot, and then you got to go over here we're not helping our kids. No, right, like how can we help our kids? And uh, and there's a spot for that, right, I'm not saying like that is not something that you can do, but we have our players on the ice, you know, two times a times a week, three times a week, depending on your thing. You've got to get the most that you possibly can out of that session to help them get ready, not just for your game on Saturday but for their long-term success and long-term love of the sport.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think your point too.

Speaker 3:

There's a lot of studies out there. Like everybody, listen, we'd all love I think I know me in particular I would love for the ability to have ice unlimited, go to the rink and have free play all the time and allow the kids that we're going to learn to learn. I would love that, I really would. I mean ideally, but like I run a lot of the you know a lot of stuff with the Rangers up here in New York and the Junior Ranger program, and it has to be there has to be a level of structure to it, because I just wouldn't get through anything like we have. We have like this 60 minute session. So like I'm thinking about yesterday's program, you know in particular, like we ended up having two kids that tried goalie for the first time.

Speaker 3:

So we made sure there was a shooting station. Was it free play shooting? No, it had to be a little structured because somebody's going to get killed out there, right. So you know just, and then there's no, and then there's pucks everywhere. So there's structure. And then we had a tag station that was free, that was basically a free-for-all. If you looked, if you came into the ring, you're like what the? It was just tag with two junior players, right, literally like we are a joke, like you're not allowed to smile during that drill and they can't not smile, right, it's all laughing and smiling and little screams.

Speaker 1:

You think hockey's fun?

Speaker 3:

And then we play ringette. You know scrimmage, but why? Because it's five-year-olds and six-year-olds, it's easier for them to like. I don't have to keep putting a puck in every four seconds. Now a lot of like purists would say, well, it's too structured. You know, you're putting, I go yeah, but you, we have to find the balance of the free play and the structure. And I think to dave, you said it earlier like if we wanted to do everything in our power to develop a pro hockey player, we're doing it wrong. It just happens to be that guys and girls are getting through to pro hockey.

Speaker 3:

Cause we have numbers because we have numbers Like we're like okay, if a 70 kids are on the ice and one gets through, we, we praise that. We're like woohoo, you know. And then you know, and then you go to another place and it's 10 kids doing it and six go to like. To your point, you have three division one goalies on your junior team. I mean, we're people are begging for one serviceable goalie on your junior team right now. So it's like where are we at like and and how do we?

Speaker 3:

The balance of free play, and I think, just for parents listening, it's more like the more you can give them outside of the balance of free play, and I think, just for parents listening, it's more like the more you can give them outside of the structure of paying somebody and and doing what you think is right is actually the opposite.

Speaker 3:

All these stuff, you know, all these other sports, all these other immersion opportunities, all these other gymnastics opportunities, the opportunity to have your kid do kung fu or karate or dance class or what chess, whatever it like, whatever it is that you can get them to do, differently than the monotonous on ice instruction, because we see it all the time. Right, david, how many tryouts have you done, where you saw a kid and try out and said, oh my god, this kid's the best player on the ice. And then they go and then, like we do right, when you do all the regional tryouts, you're like this kid's definitely going through Because he went through every cone like there was no tomorrow. Then he gets to the game. He's like where'd that kid go? He doesn't even know where to go. He doesn't even know where to be. He has not made one pass to a teammate in 60 minutes.

Speaker 2:

It might be a bad tryout setup, though. Right, I'm just talking about 90% of youth hockey trials I watch.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, why don't you just scrimmage them? And, by the way, lee, right, we've talked about this a million times, and why are you even having trials? You already know who the team is anyway.

Speaker 1:

So don't take my money, just tell me I'm not 80% of it's picked. Dave, let me form this into a question because Mike with the coach over the weekend that this coach was a little frustrated with USA Hockey and follow me here because he felt that well, they are telling us exactly what we need to do every practice. And I said I believe that the ADM and I think the coach app, it's a guide to help you be creative in making your practices right. I think that when and Mike, this is to your point it's a balance and every team is different. Some teams need more structure than other teams. So, as a coach, part of the art of coaching, in my opinion, is kind of recognizing that and it can change throughout the season, by the way and understanding of like we need a more structured practice today to work on these fundamental skills sets or even advanced skill sets. Usa hockey provides fantastic information and the world, by the way, it's not just limited to us on what you can do to bring that in, but if there's something else you want to work on, that's appropriate, okay, and I got to say that because you should not be working on a one, three, one in in squirt when your kids can't shoot properly yet, okay, you gotta. You gotta understand where they're at.

Speaker 1:

But I don't think there's anything wrong with coaches inserting a little creativity into their practices If they feel like they want to work on something. I, you know, I like to create drills, and sometimes unorthodox drills, to help the kids learn whatever it is that I'm trying to teach, right? And I think, dave, I'm going to throw this to you Like is that okay? Is that? What coaches should be doing is finding the balance between creativity and coaching, following USA hockey's app and the drills that they've created. But you don't have to be locked in of like a week seven, this, this drill. I mean, do you agree with that? Disagree with that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So you got to think of where those drills and them producing all that, those practice plans, who they're for, right, they're for the mom or dad who doesn't, who has another, has a full-time job. They got a couple of kids, they're going to the rink, they're in charge of having to run a 40 or 50 person practice and you're like, ooh, I don't know what I'm doing. But it's easy for them to say, okay, hey, I'm going to look at practice seven, we're doing practice seven, we're just going to go through.

Speaker 2:

But, if you have, if you have somebody that is really passionate, like you, lee, or the coach you're talking about, that can mold and kind of shape a practice or shape drills or whatever and make it their own. More power to you Like that's what you want. But you also got to have the framework of what they're looking for and I mean I spent time with USA Hockey. So it's the five elements of a good practice Fun, lots of decisions, right, lots of reps, and not just reps around a cone. Challenging Am I at five. I forgot One more.

Speaker 2:

I forgot one more. And then, and it looks like the game, it looks like the game right Like, and it looks like the game can be your ringette, it can be your your tag thing, because what's in a in a tag game, that's in a game One, your head up you got to watch where that person is going. You got to try to uh evade that person if you're trying to get tagged. So I think it's an important piece that you don't just say, hey, usa hockey is doing this and you have to follow it. If you are doing those skills and you can really kind of up it to what your kids need, right, it might be bringing it back to, or even within the drill or the activities. You have five or six practices or drills and the kids are going around, but your one group is a little bit more advanced. Hey, let's amp it up, let's plus one, it right like. Or hey, we got a little bit beginner group coming, let's minus one, let's back it down.

Speaker 1:

Yeah we did that this year, dave. I had a team where, legit, half the team was novice, could barely skate and half the team was club players that could do it. We split the practices up because that's what needed to be done, and we did that. We worked on different fundamental skills for each group.

Speaker 1:

The other thing too and I like to say this to coaches and to the kids is that there's no right play or wrong play. In any situation, there are right plays and wrong plays. Right and this is a game where you can make three or four correct decisions and three or four incorrect decisions. I think that's important to teach people right, whereas when you look at baseball I'm not ripping on baseball there typically is an appropriate play for most situations. I'm not saying you won't see things you haven't seen before, but you know when you get a fly ball out to center field there's a guy on first base. We all know what you should probably do if you get that ball Right, but in hockey it's it's not like that. This is going back to the decision-making skills and coaching skills. You've got to create situations where they can make a decision.

Speaker 1:

Mike said something on an episode of about a month ago that actually really hit me, um, and and really has forced me to rethink how I'm drawing up some of my drills of why do all drills have to end in a shot? Why do we eventuate to that we're not teaching things like just getting to open ice or making a good decision with the puck as the final win? So, just echoing what you're saying, this is a balance, it's an art form and I do want to I appreciate that you said that that those practices you know for the dad or the mom that's volunteering, like that information is there for you. But to the person that I was talking to, you're kind of affirming that when you're feeling ready to kind of evolve beyond that, there's nothing stopping you from doing that Right, and I think that that's an important point to make.

Speaker 2:

But you can't don't do it wrong or don't don't make sure you have the evidence and the backing behind it of why you're doing it Right, not just because, hey, I did this 20 years ago when I was in high school, and I look where I'm at, let's toughen you up and do the gauntlet. We'll go on that. I'm coaching 10-year AAA hockey, right? Like hey, there's a lot of research, there's a lot of stuff out there that will help you in your process of building those practice plans and putting those practice plans in place.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, dave. I want to go back to your career a little bit, and you know I wrote this question out After youth hockey. You had a great four-year career at Ohio State. You led them to a conference championship. That's nothing small here, right, and we preach on this show to stay present with our kids at whatever age they're at. But with that said, the three of us are constantly asked about college hockey and getting the next level, whether your kid's seven or 17 years old. I get that question once a week. Now you did that. You did get to the next level, right. So, kind of keeping in mind everything I said, can you paint a picture for our audience of the behind-the-scenes viewpoint of what it really took for you to get from youth hockey to Division I college hockey?

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. Thank you, yeah, so I was really lucky with the people I had around me when I was growing up in Georgia and opportunities by working at the rink and doing all this stuff. But it came down to the love of doing a lot of different things with hockey working, coaching, all that when I was of that age. When I went to, I was lucky enough to go play junior hockey up in Boston with the three-division one and the coach that I had there his name was Mike Adessa. He coached at RPI, won a national championship there and he recently passed away and he was terrific. Like he was a very hard coach but he always wanted you to succeed and wanted to help you along. So he was the one that pushed all of us on our team and myself and I really try to follow his guidelines or his suggestions of how to play the position, how to, you know, evolve mentally and all that. And I think it was just. He saw something in me when I was 18. I was graduating high school that year and I played in some type of showcase tournament and he saw something. He goes you're going to be the third goalie on our team with the two other. You know, division I and we just want you to be there in practice and I was like, hey, I don't do anything like half-hearted I'm, I'm all in, so trained really, really hard, got there and by, truthfully, by like a month in I was getting more, more of the playing time, um, compared to those other players, um, and it was just working hard right, like in having a good attitude and there's a lot of other stuff that always happens.

Speaker 2:

But as a parent, you want to try to help your kid. When they get in that situation, they're able to stay focused and go through there. And I think my parents did a good job at doing that and helping me, because when you're going to go play juniors, I moved to Boston by myself this is before the really cell phones were going right, like this is a long time ago and I just was put in a hockey house, right, and I knew one or two of the players and how do you, you know, navigate that world where you're by yourself and on your own? And I think that's where you, as parents, can help by not being that snowplow, right, like, and and letting them explore. And I know we talked a lot about this free play and hey, let's do gymnastics, let's do all that.

Speaker 2:

But how can you let your kids go and explore the world while still being safe? We're not saying, like they're crossing the street with blindfolds on right, like we need to. We need to like help them, but I think how they can evolve as themselves and make those good decisions and make you know, work things out on their own. You're going to help them when they're in college and they don't have you. Um, you know, maybe they're in college and they don't have you. You know, maybe they're playing college hockey, maybe they're not, but they're going to have to make those decisions at 11 pm, 1 am at night, that you have to hope that they make the right decision.

Speaker 4:

Right and this can be a great guide their youth hockey years and playing high school hockey, even if they don't make it to college hockey. Everything that you're doing with your kids now and I see it now with my kids because they're grown up in their 20s and making really good life, successful careers because of what they learned as kids that determination and never giving up, and if something isn't working out, you find another way to do it and you just work really hard and I've seen all of that come to fruition now. So, parents, it does pay off. There's a payoff, Trust us.

Speaker 2:

And if go ahead, sorry, I was going to say it's not playing on the quadruple A traveling, that's not where they're going to say it's not playing on the quadruple A team that's traveling, that's not where they're going to get the determination.

Speaker 1:

It's not Ultimate tournament triple A team. You're not.

Speaker 2:

It's what you do on the other 23 hours of the day with your child, or what you don't do.

Speaker 1:

And I like to say this too, and Christy and Mike, we talk about this a lot. We get this question what is the ROI for me on this investment that I'm making? The ROI and I want everyone to follow me here the ROI is the person your kid becomes after hockey, and this is, if they are Mark Messier winning six Stanley Cups. It is the type of person you become through the game for post hockey. That's the ROI. All right Is, can you make them a good human being, right, and and and that will pay off in its own. And, christy, to your point. Dave, to your point.

Speaker 1:

I remember I was, I was an average student in school and I remember my parents were really worried about me going to college. And when I got to college, I excelled. And I remember I remember my dad asked me and my mom kind of like, well, what changed? And I said, well, you know, I just kind of applied everything you ever taught me. You just weren't there anymore. So I did it and it was like I kind of think about that with my own kids sometimes, because I get frustrated like any other parent. I'm like I'm doing this for when they're not here, so that they can learn these skills for when they're not here. That's both the joy in hell of being a parent, obviously. But that's the ROI right. It's the person you're creating, it's not the athlete, it's not the pro contract. Everyone's probably nodding, but you really got to check yourself. I have to check myself too at times. When I see my kids do something fantastic, go ahead. We say that, right we. When I see my kids do something fantastic.

Speaker 3:

Go ahead. We say that right, we said it all the time, like the people that are listening to the show most likely probably would agree with that, because that's why they're listening to the show.

Speaker 1:

We have a huge audience, Mike, so there's a lot of people that agree with that. That's that's the key.

Speaker 3:

Well, that's what I mean, but that, but, again, but that's. But I think, and again, this is not, you know, select, because I do yeah we're only bashing the quadruple.

Speaker 3:

No, no, because I bash them all the time, but I just, I'm just saying I just. But I see those parents and they're joyful and they're happy and I think they think their kids are happy and I think they think they, they, they have a different plan, which is great. But I think one of the reasons I was so excited to have dave on is because one of the things I hear the most is about oh, it's AAA, this and the travel, and I have no other alternative, because what else am I going to do? I think the reason why what Dave's doing now is so appealing to me, in particular as a parent, is because of what the Columbus Blue Jackets are doing to give the alternative.

Speaker 3:

And I think, dave, can you talk a little bit about, because I think one of the one of the frustrations rink owners and organizations and parents get is well, we did try hockey for free and my kid loved it and I, he, I, he can't get enough of it. But then the next step from try hockey for free is pay, paying and playing for a $6,000 travel team, and that's really the only option, because rec hockey has virtually disappeared from the face of the earth in the United States. Again, there's pockets. But what is the NHL and what is the Columbus Blue Jacks in particular, and you doing to try to right the ship there a little bit?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's a really important piece for us as the Columbus Blue Jackets doing to try to right the ship there a little bit. Yeah, so it's a really important piece for us as the Columbus Blue Jackets. We're in what they would say is a non-traditional hockey market, right? So kind of like the Seattle's, the Las Vegas, the Dallas's, all there, and Dallas would probably be more of a traditional hockey market now than yours past. But how can we help players get into the game? Through Try Hockey for Free.

Speaker 2:

We call it Get Out and Learn, which is very similar, same type of concept. We had over 1,500 players try that last year on ice or street hockey and then we move them into the Learn to Play program, and our Learn to Play program is similar to yours with the Rangers, mike, but we actually have three levels for it. So we have hockey one, which would be the beginner, with no experience skating. They come in, that's where they get the gear. They move into hockey two, which is eight weeks. Usually you'd take hockey one twice usually like my son's in it and he'd take it twice and then you do hockey two, hockey two, then hockey three and then you're ready for the blue jackets hockey league and the blue jackets hockey league is a league that we run um, it's city, citywide and it's for uh. For next year it'll be for five to 14 year olds and we want to try to give the best experience possible for all those players by following age, appropriate development, appropriate things.

Speaker 2:

The thing that we have that maybe other locations do not have, as Columbus Blue Jackets, we are pretty much a sister company to the Chiller Ice Rinks, which is 11 ice sheets about six or seven facilities in central Ohio, so we have the ice. That is part of our company to be able to pull that off. And it's really hard if you're, you know, in a local community rink and you're trying to fight the the. The rink next door that's a different owner and you're still trying to do that. So how? So we're fortunate that way to have that, and within the Blue Jacket Tocca League is to have that, and within the Blue Jacket Talk League is, like I said, we'll have five to 14 years old and it's there's a huge emphasis on the coach development piece.

Speaker 2:

So what we're trying to do is we want these volunteer mom or dads and we're run by them, the teams are run by them is help them feel supported and invested and that's an important piece for them, because we have people that might have a ton of experience that say, hey, I'm helping my kid and I want to help, just kind of give me the puck bucket and and go.

Speaker 2:

So you might have some people that are like, hey, I kind of skated a little bit when I was younger, and then you might have people that haven't skated at all and we want all of them, we want every single one. We want to be part of the Blue Jackets hockey family and how we can help support them. And we have part-time professional staff that are there on the ice to help support them logistically, but also as, like a coach developer. We send out the practice. I know we talked about practice plans and not one size fits all, but we have a pretty good feel of where all our kids are within our levels and programming. So we send out a practice plan every two weeks to our coaches and every rink does the same. So one rink that's on the east side of the city is doing the same exact practice as the west side.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

So it's's consistent. So you don't have to say, hey, I gotta go to the east side because they got the better coaches right, like so, um, but so that's a important piece for us.

Speaker 2:

Within there there's progressions, there's coach development type stuff that the coaches would get and that's where our, our staff, our, our staff are like hey, mike, you ran station one, you know, bingo, bingo, whatever, it is Right. What were some of the things that you did? That were struggles in there, right, and now that reflection piece. Now, mike, who might just be starting coaching his child at five years old, hopefully he or she stays through until they're 14. That's a lot of time that they have support and development. They don't need to be a hockey expert because we're helping.

Speaker 2:

Like the hardest part of the practice plans right, like for most coaches, that's the hardest part and the most overwhelming we've had. We have a couple nhl players that are part of the program and they're like I used to have to go to the rink and try to think of this plan right before I got there. He goes. This is so much better. I know it's going to be good, it's. You know there are always some little tweaks that you can do within the plus one, minus one, but it's age appropriate, it's development appropriate, it's what's right for the kids and not what you might have done so many years ago that, hey, we're just going to do this drill because I remember it and I think that's an important piece that we do, and the gameplay is at 6U, 8u is cross ice, smaller numbers and all that. But we had 1,200 kids between five to 10-year-olds last year and then for this upcoming year we're taking 12 year and 14 year or absorbing into the house program. It'll be about 1700 kids.

Speaker 4:

Wow, that's amazing, dave. I love that.

Speaker 3:

I think the beauty about that program too is not only the practice plans being there but the continuity of a parent knowing that when you sign up for any program within the umbrella of this program.

Speaker 3:

It's the same program. Like there's not. There's no competition between, well, we have nice uniforms over here here, or we have, we have this and our kids get this, and like it's just it. It actually it ayso, is the league a little bit like it just make it. It makes it where it's a. It's a. It's a league run program that's not competing against each other but in fact uplifting everyone so you keep more kids in the game. And the fact is, like I've seen those practice plans, like I challenge any 14u triple a team to go out and run those practice plans. Like they're not. Like I think you know and, dave, you come from the the you know the usa hockey high performance environment. I think that was always a knock on adm, that it was a well, we just want to have fun. No, no, it's a high performance lesson plan. It just happens to be a plan with kids that maybe aren't high performance players yet. But those plans could be interjected with anybody.

Speaker 2:

I could easily do a eight U practice or a 10 U practice with the youth national team easily. They'd rock it and it'd be fast, it'd be high paced, they would get lots of reps right and it would be dynamite for them. And I think that's. It's not just about rec program, it's about what's doing right for the kid and it's not about, hey, my kid is, you know, more experienced and that's the thing right. Like you're just more your kid is more experienced right now.

Speaker 2:

That doesn't mean that your kid is more experienced right now. That doesn't mean that your kid is, you know, maybe they're a late birthday, maybe they're a December birthday, maybe your kid is crying every single time they go to the rink, you know, because they want their mom or dad out on the ice with them and then in 10 years they're playing division one college hockey or division one any sport. Our neighbor she was joking with me yesterday so her kid was playing softball she is now going to go play Division I field hockey. She goes. 10 years ago or 12 years ago I had to stand in the field in softball with her because she was crying, because I needed to be it, and she's going to be a Division I hockey player or field hockey player. It's just the path. They don't need to be great.

Speaker 3:

I just had a girl get married that I taught. Like when she first came she was Division I hockey captain in a school here on the East Coast and the first day she came on the ice with me and the dad reminded me the other day about it that she was literally like clinging to the door, like you couldn't pry her off the door to get her on the ice, crying, complaining he had to leave the rink because he was all worked up. He couldn't believe it. You know she's got to be playing hockey. And then you know next thing, you know she played, you know, four years as a Division I college hockey player, was a captain of her team and now is coaching like giving back and you know she's going to get right now.

Speaker 3:

When she got on the ice because it was a higher level group of kids, there's not one parent that wasn't like oh my god, please get her off the ice. Like this. She cannot be out here. She can't compete. I'm like she's the only one that should compete. Have you seen the mom and dad? She don't. We're making her get on the ice, but I think it's just like one of those things where you just have to give access. We talk about this all the time in the show Give as much, provide as much access for the longest period of time at the highest level, and you're going to produce great, great, great people and, a matter of fact, maybe some of them go pro, which is awesome, but if that's not your end goal, then think about all the kids that could benefit from that.

Speaker 1:

I want to say too that to your point, mike and Dave and, by the way, dave, what you just said about your AU practices being with the development team. Mike says that all the time and I love it because it's right. Mike, you could do the same practice at different age groups and you'll see a difference in terms of, or you won't see any difference in, the drills. The other thing is as a matter of fact, they'll love it.

Speaker 3:

They will be doing a static breakout for 45 minutes, like they're beating, like you watch those little kids, those six-year-olds. They are beating the crap out of each other. It is like total. They're in it, they're fighting, they're battling.

Speaker 4:

They're winning, they're losing.

Speaker 3:

They're crying, they're bitching and they're moaning. And you do the same thing with high elite athletes. You put the same 14-year-olds in that are going to the National Development Team program. They will be the same. Matter of fact, they'll be even more intense. So I don't know, I just I look at it like what do you mean? It doesn't look like elite practice.

Speaker 1:

What does that even look like, you know? The other thing too I wanted to add is that I've had parents come up to me and say my kid just doesn't love the game yet that much, and I said that's okay. And I've had parents come up and he really loves the game. That's okay. And I'll tell you what the kid that loves the game at nine might not love it at 18. And the kid who was scared at nine might be someone at 18.

Speaker 1:

There's no map here. The falling in love with something is not oh, they got to do it when they're six. That's not how that works. So we got to dismantle that belief system. The love will come when the love comes. The passion comes when it comes. That's with anything, not just talk about sports. I think that's an important thing to talk about. Dave, I want to ask this. Before we run out of time, I'm going to merge two questions together here. You coached in the Junior Olympics, youth Olympics, amazing scores over these four games. You had three games go to a shootout before winning 4-0 in the gold medal game. And this is my question. Okay, there's two parts here. One is that experience. I have to hear about it because you want to talk about high pressure games. Three games at an Olympic level going to a shootout. I'm getting palpitations even thinking about that.

Speaker 4:

This was just last year, right.

Speaker 1:

This is January.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, january.

Speaker 1:

Oh, january, okay, and you're coaching youth basically, I mean, these are older kids, but they're kids. So I'm interested to hear about A the approach to coaching, you know, young adults. That age right, because that's a point right now. I think that you know 16, 17, 18-year-olds today are not the same thing that they were 20 years ago in some aspects. And then just tell me about that experience because, my god, I mean, you know, I just watched the team go to a shootout in a championship game. That was the only shootout they had in the playoffs, three in a row. Talk about living on the edge.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, just talk to me about this for a little bit, you took home the gold and you got the gold thank you, thank goodness, because you deserve it.

Speaker 2:

So, uh, probably the first thing I want to talk about is the point you made. They, they are kids, right, like, yeah, they they're 15 and they're the at the time the best players in the in the united states. Right, yeah, they were the best players in the world. That does not mean they're the best players in two months from now in the world right like their path, but at that time they were the best players. There was conversations with some of them. Right like, it's tough. They're going across the ocean. They're by themselves. They were the star on their team.

Speaker 2:

They might you're right like, now they might have to take a little different role and trying to work with them and talk through it with them. And you know, like in in my position, there's only one goalie that plays. So the other goalie, who is one of the best goalies of all of in the whole country, who won a national championship, who recently won, right like he had to say, hey, we're doing this for the team. Right, and he did a great job. He was the first one out there to be out there to help, you know, support the team.

Speaker 2:

But those are tough things to say because they all want to play, right, like in in having that conversation, because they're all in different space. They're 15 years old, some of them might be maturity of an 18 year old and some I know for sure we're maturity of a 12 year old, right, and. But they all had really good hockey game, right. But their actual maturity was a little different. And we had great kids right Like. This is not about them. They were really really great and they really were focused and and, and, and and brought it. The experience was unbelievable. So it was an international olympic committee event, so that means that, um, the ioc, who runs the, the big olympics, ran this. So everything to the t. And this was in gangwon uh, south korea, which is the same spot as when they had the piao chang just a stone's throw away from america just stone's throw away from america uh

Speaker 2:

yes, yeah so it was. It was great, like the amount of work that the korean um government and everybody did to provide they actually it was. They did a tremendous job it was. I had a lot of good hockey experience in my life, you know. I would say it's top, top two, maybe the best. It was really, really cool. So the experience, right, like we played in an arena that was the same as the Olympics and in some of the games it was like 6,000 fans they were more fans than any of those kids have ever played in front of them. Like it was awesome, right.

Speaker 2:

And then to go in the shootout. You're playing against Slovakia, the first game. And I don't know if you know a little bit about some of the Slovakia, check they're. They're scary because they're kind of a sneaky good in the level, because they have so few players. They're really dependent on helping develop all their players. And some of the players on their team were men. I would have liked to check their passport to make sure that they were of age, but, like this one guy on Chechnchnya, he could rip the puck harder than some pros, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And um, just going through the shootout, you win a shoot against Slovakia. Great game, you losing a shootout to Czech, um, tough, tough game. Then you have to play Canada, who probably is the other top team in the. The thing first time that all these kids are playing team Canada, red sweaters, all that, first time I'm coaching right, and you go into a six, five shit. It was like bam, bam, going back and forth, it was a. It was an unbelievable experience. And then you, you're able to play Chechnya. It felt like the uh, 1980 Olympics where, hey, you beat Canada. You cannot mess this up, but we got.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we played Chechnya and we lost this year at the first game, but we had an advantage because we had a day off in between. I think it was our first and second game. They played off their three games back to back to back. So they played us, they played the playoffs, so we had a little bit of a break. So I think that helped us a little bit and our kids brought it. Like I talked about Parker Trottier, who was Brian Trottier's son. He was our captain, he was a rock star. You could tell he has something special about what he brings. But I could say about all the kids like it was really great, awesome. And the one thing I do want to say coaches do not get medals.

Speaker 1:

That's true.

Speaker 2:

So everybody's like hey, where's your medal? So my wife went on Amazon and bought me a $10 medal. I love it. When I came home, so that I had a medal, or I should have just showed, I should bring it out, you know, like the $10 medal.

Speaker 1:

Hey, listen, coaches might not get medal, but you're still a gold medalist. In my mind, you're a gold medalist winning coach. And it's true. Yeah, coaches do not get gold medals. That is sometimes a little known fact about this.

Speaker 1:

I do want to pull the thread on one thing you said specifically with the goaltenders and all the players. These are the top players from their teams, from their areas, and it sounds like, from what you said, from a coaching standpoint. And again, this, this kind of falls in line with with the work that I do and you're affirming it in a positive way. That was the ability to work together as a team. That maybe was the separator for them being on this team. That there's not a lot of room for, for that type of ego, right, there's not a lot of room for you saying type of ego, right, there's not a lot of room for you saying, well, I'm the best in wisconsin. What the hell it's that ability to say, no, I'm on team usa and whatever role I have to play, I have to play. Is that a coachable attribute? And for the parents listening and the coaches listening, is that something we should implement more into our strategies as kids go through youth hockey I think it's really tough.

Speaker 2:

So so we only I only had, we only had those kids for two weeks total. So we had San Jose, right Like. So there was a limited amount of thing and I think that's. I mean, I've coached youth hockey. I think that was what helped me help coach Joe Bonnet asked me to be part of it, right, knowing that these are kids and helping them.

Speaker 2:

How can we help really like, set that up beforehand, hey, you know, we call that out in one of our first meetings hey, what happens if you don't play the championship game? Right Like, how are you going to do so? We called it out early for them. But when it comes to that day, when you say, hey, you're playing and you're not, that's tough for the 15 year old to say, okay, we're good, right like, but you got to try to get that. And that's something that you can help with your, with your kids, whether you're a coach earlier or or a parent is, how can we help put them in those experiences? Maybe when they're younger and it's not just hey, we need the best goalie to play in the championship. We sometimes might have our other goalie play in the championship when we're 10, 12, 14, and giving them those experiences, because we don't know if that quote unquote second goalie will become a youth Olympian in five, six years from now. I think that was something.

Speaker 2:

And I do want to bring up one thing about the youth experience that I thought was probably the coolest thing that I don't know, it was something, something about it. So, rico Roman, who is a sled hockey gold medalist so some of you might know the name if you're not looking up. He was a military guy who lost his legs in, I think it was, iraq, I can't remember, but he talked to our team a couple of weeks prior to us going over there and just about team and doing it for the team, doing it for USA, and he brought up the point about every time the sled hockey group gets ready for a game, they all wait, they all wait, they get all dressed, except for their jersey, everybody. They all wait, they wait for everybody and they're like it's go time and they all put their jerseys on at one time and that's the coolest thing. I I watched it for our kids and I'm choking up a little bit. Right, like, because it's team usa, right, like, you're waiting, you're.

Speaker 2:

It was just a cool experience for those 15 year olds to really and to see it right like I made sure I was in the locker room when they're putting on their jerseys, because it was a cool, cool thing and I, yeah, yeah, and like I think that that guy is over right like hey, we're waiting, we're putting on jerseys one minute, one minute, be ready one minute. And everybody have their jerseys out, they're looking at their name, they're looking at team usa. Bam, right, and put it on now. Now we're ready to be in it together. So so pretty cool, pretty powerful thing for that.

Speaker 4:

I just got chills just listening to that. Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 1:

I have a feeling a lot of our coach listeners might start doing that in their locker rooms. That's brilliant.

Speaker 4:

Especially for a championship game. Yeah right.

Speaker 1:

The ability to believe in something larger than yourself is a very powerful force, and I think that that's an important part of this too, but, dave, we're out of time. You were an awesome guest, as promised, by the way, mike. Mike assured us that you were going to be an awesome guest.

Speaker 3:

That was Greg. That was Greg Reback. We'll, we'll, let Greg get the, get the.

Speaker 1:

I'm giving the credit to you, buddy. You're on the show too. But, dave, I just want to again, from all of us, thank you for your time today. Incredible insight. I mean one of the best parts of doing the show is that again I get to learn so much. I mean, again Christy and Mike get different parts of their parenting journey. But I mean every episode is a gift, whether Mike, you or Christy, for me. But Dave, you too. I mean you just dropped so much gold in this episode. I'm going to pick it up and nobody use it on my journey.

Speaker 2:

Pun intended or no pun intended. Either way, on that one pal.

Speaker 1:

Well you know what I'm going to go buy some $10 medals now. No man, Congratulations. I want to thank you for all that you do for the game. I always like to thank our guests that have coached or been part of a gold medal team for representing our country as well. I think that's a huge deal. So thank you for everything and for being here today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you very much for having me and keep on passing along the messaging that you, you all do, right, I think it's an important piece, the more that we can help help inform the families right Like we've. Some of us has been through it right. But it's also really hard when you want to do the what's best for your kid, right Like and, and and and you're not. It's not nothing bad against you. You just try to reach out, try to talk to people, try to see, right Like it's, it's an important piece, and you are doing what's best for your kid is by listening to the podcast here and and and helping them along their journey, because it is their journey.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're going to share that endorsement all over the place. So I appreciate you giving it over the place. So I appreciate you giving it. That's going to do it for this edition of our kids play hockey. Dave Caruso, fantastic guest. Obviously. Look him up online, not hard to find them. But for Christy Casciano Burns and Mike Benelli, I'm Lee Elias. This has been another great edition of our kids play hockey.

Speaker 1:

Dave Caruso, our guest today. Thank you so much for being here and we'll see you all next time on our kids play hockey. Skate on everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now If you found value. Wherever you're listening whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website our kids play hockeycom. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops at when hockey stopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Lee MJ Elias

Host
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Christie Casciano Burns

Co-host
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Mike Bonelli

Co-host
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Sheri Hudspeth

Co-host
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Katelynn Reiss

Producer
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Xavier Cruz

Editor
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Dave Caruso

Guest

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