Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Goalie: Goalie Development and Coaching Insights with Coach Brian Daccord
In this week's episode of “Our Kids Play Goalie,” Lee Elias and Mike Bonelli sit down with Brian Daccord, goaltending coach for Boston University. Brian’s illustrious career includes coaching stints with the Boston Bruins, Arizona Coyotes, and Toronto Maple Leafs, as well as winning a German championship in 2015. He is also the founder of Stop It Goaltending and the Director of Goaltending Development at Sense Arena. Brian shares his wealth of knowledge and personal experiences, including insights from his books “Hockey Goaltending” and “How to Be a Goalie Parent,” and stories about his son Joey Daccord, a starting goaltender for the Seattle Kraken.
Key Topics Covered:
•Goaltending Journey: Brian’s inspiring journey from outdoor rinks in Montreal to coaching at the highest levels of hockey.
•Importance of Self-Advocacy: Encouraging young goaltenders to advocate for themselves and communicate effectively with coaches.
•Innovative Training Techniques: Insights into the development and benefits of Sensorena VR training for goaltenders.
•Goaltending Philosophy: The value of environment over level and the importance of passion and resilience in a goaltender’s career.
•Practical Advice for Parents: Guidance on supporting young goaltenders, including tips on decision-making and communication.
Memorable Quotes:
•“Every shot is a chance to get better. There’s a big difference between reading a release in practice and reading a play in a game with real consequences.” - Brian Daccord
•“We have to practice at a higher level. You can’t practice at the pace of the level you’re playing at. You want to play at a high level, let’s play at a higher pace.” - Brian Daccord
Brian’s expert advice on goaltending offers a comprehensive guide for young athletes and their parents. His emphasis on environment, passion, and innovative training methods like Sense Arena provides valuable insights for goaltenders at all levels. This episode is packed with practical tips and inspiring stories that will resonate with anyone involved in youth hockey.
Don’t miss this insightful conversation with Brian Daccord. Subscribe to “Our Kids Play Hockey” on your favorite podcast platform and visit ourkidsplayhockey.com for more episodes and updates.
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Goalie, powered by NHL Sensorena. I'm Lee Elias with Mike Benelli. Our guest today is the goaltending coach for Boston University and has an amazing resume that includes coaching with the Boston Bruins, arizona Coyotes and Toronto Maple Leafs. Along with his 1,000 goalies annually, which has resulted in over 25 NHL draft picks, and also through his work with Sens Arena as the director of goaltending development, he has authored two top-selling books Hockey Goaltending and how to Be a Goalie Parent. But you may ultimately recognize his name because his son, joey Decord, is the starting goaltender for the Seattle Kraken. His kid plays hockey. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Brian Decord to the show today. Brian, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much. And recently I have become Joey Decord's dad. He is no longer my kid.
Speaker 1:There you go I think that that's the dream of a lot of the parents on the show here today. Just wonderful to see Joey flourish in the NHL, especially last season, and obviously not that it was his coming of age year. But the winter classic last year stands out for me obviously is one of the big times that he played. But we're going to get to him and you as a dad. But I want to start with you. You know every goaltender has a story about how they were placed between the pipes. Were you voluntold? Did you naturally flock to that position? How did you get so involved in the goaltending realm?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to age myself a little bit. I grew up in Montreal and we had a channel 22 and they used to show the Bruins matinee games on Sundays. I fell in love with Jerry Chevers and his mask and then once again dating myself. Our rink was outside so we played outdoors and my brother was a goalie and finally he got tired of freezing his butt off and so we had a set of equipment right there and I begged my dad to let me play and he let me play. And I grew up in Montreal there and I played junior. I came to the States, I played at Merrimack College and went over. I played seven years in Switzerland in the National A League. There Came back goalie coach of the Bruins, goalie scout for Maple Leafs, director of goaltending for the Coyotes and running stop at goaltending as well. So that's kind of how I got to this point and we like to say my wife and I, daniela, we like to say we breed goaltenders.
Speaker 1:We have two ourselves and Alex just finished playing recently at St Aslan College at the Division III level. That's amazing and again it's ingrained in the family. When you said Cheevers, you're talking about the mask with the stitches and stuff like that. So for the younger parents in the audience, look up Gary Cheever's mask, all right, because or don't, or don't, or don't. Or don't, but really, really creative mask with a lot of stitches on it.
Speaker 2:Well, I freaked the kids out when I showed them pictures of when I was playing for the kid because I had a mask on. I had the Jacques Pont mask. There was no eye protection. I with a kid, because I had a mask on, I had the Jacques Pond mask, there was no eye protection. I mean, there were two holes out and if you were going to get hit with a stick, you were going to get hit with a stick. And you know it was interesting.
Speaker 2:When I finished playing right near the end of my career, I had a very short period. I had a coach by the name of Marco Barron and he had played for the Bruins and happened to be in Switzerland, came out and helped us a little bit, and just in the few times that he helped I learned so much and I had these great coaches that would really help me. But at that time, like your goalie coach, you'd see him once a month or something. There wasn't that consistent support. So when I was done, my goal was to formalize a way to train goaltenders. I felt like I could have used so much more as a goaltender myself, and then so I'm always thinking about what can I provide? Goalies, and that's where we get into the Stop it Goaltending U app and the SIG Game Day app that does evaluations for goaltenders, and the books. I've written five books now, so I just keep on trying to provide resources for our goaltenders and help them.
Speaker 2:And you know, you talk about Joey and you get in the books and we're flying back from Joey's first game. He played his first game in the NHL and we're flying back from the game and he played his first game in the NHL and we're flying back from the game. And I looked at Danielle and I said I go. Do you know how many decisions I'm getting chill saying this right now? Do you know how many decisions we had to get right to get to this point?
Speaker 2:And I said I eat, sleep and breathe goaltending. I am as deep in the goaltending world as anybody. Breathe goaltending I am as deep in the goaltending world as anybody. And it was still hard and all the pressure of camps and teams and tournaments and tryouts and where to go and junior and stay in preps, all the decisions. And that's why I wrote how to Be a Goalie Parent, because I wanted to help parents navigate through all those decisions and those issues that come up as a goalie parent and that's, that's, uh, it's a, it's an amazing book. I actually sell two or three a day.
Speaker 2:It just keeps on going and, um, and, and that's why, uh, I do what I do. I just try to give back and try to provide coaches, parents, um, and the goalies, the resources to help them.
Speaker 3:It's funny, brian, right, I'm sure, like when you're writing it too, it's helping you and your family, right, when you're we find out on this show like we'll be doing a podcast and I'll get off on a Monday and I'll sit there and be like, oh geez, I gotta actually reflect on that and redo that, or I need to fix that or tweak that in my own life as a hockey parent. So I think it's a great way to almost journal your own experience to help other people. But it's really helping you too and I'm sure your kids have appreciated that, because you can reflect on, kind of where you're at in the moment and then pivot and try to make the right decisions. And I think that for you to say that, think about all these parents.
Speaker 3:I just did a couple of Pee Wee Quebec tryouts over the past couple of weekends in various areas and watching the goalie parents and the pacing and the uncertainty and then at the end of the day it's like, listen, you're all good. I mean, you're all good, every one of them is good and you're just like it's just. You know it's chance and it's and it's timing and it's opportunity being in the right place at the right time. It's not only about you know talent right.
Speaker 2:Without a doubt, and and we're, we're always growing, we're, we're growing as coaches, we're growing as parents as well. You know, and and it was funny I did after the winter classic, I did an interview on the NHL network with Joey and it was like it was a magical moment the whole. It was like being in a Disney world movie, right, it was. It was insane. And we're, we're doing the interview and and, and that's what I talked about. I talked about, you know, as a parent. Sure, there's a financial aspect to having your kids play hockey, but we can live with the fact. Hey, maybe we did a tournament and we shouldn't have, and we spent the $300, and so on and so forth. But you know, what really drives the parents is making the right decisions and giving our kids a chance to do what they love to do, and that's what we're trying to do as parents all the time. And so you're always. The landscape keeps on changing in hockey, so you're always learning and you're always growing.
Speaker 1:You know, brian, we say a lot on this show that there is no one path for any professional, anything really, not just hockey. You've mentioned a few times the decision-making aspect of this. And look, my son's a young goaltender. He's 10 years old. I've fallen in the world of. I will be buying your book, but the question I have is maybe you can run through some of those decisions that you've had to make as a family for the audience just to give an idea, and kind of with the disclaimer again, these are decisions your family had to make. It might not be decisions every family has to make sure.
Speaker 2:So I I have a pretty strong opinion about development. And let's go back a little bit. My son, joy, was really fortunate. He played as a youth. He played club hockey, select hockey, as a goalie and he played for his town as a player. And he played as a player for the town right through middle school. So right up until freshman year of high school he was playing both and he always had a goalie partner. He was never the one goalie and you can argue there's a lot of good things about being the only goalie, but there's also a lot of good things about having a goalie partner and splitting the games. So that was kind of his thing.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to decisions you're always forced. Whether it's 10 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old, you're always forced with the decision of where to play, what team to try out for, and so on and so forth. And I've always had a motto I've always chosen environment over level and that's kind of my go-to. And Joey played up one year. That was probably his least fun year. He was playing with all the kids. It was a different locker room dynamic. He wasn't ready socially to be in that locker room. He was the youngest kid in the room and he didn't have as much fun.
Speaker 2:And goaltending, especially at the youngest levels, it's about driving passion for the game. It's hard, it's hard to move up the ranks, it's hard to play for a high school team, a prep school team, where everybody's counting on you and if you play bad you feel like you let everybody down or you got embarrassed. You know there's a lot of resiliency that has to go with goaltending. You absolutely positively have to develop that passion while you're younger. Because when it hits, when Stuart Skinner goes on that bad streak to start the season, that takes resiliency to climb yourself out of that bad streak to start the season, that takes resiliency to climb yourself out of that. When he gets benched in the playoffs for two games. You need so. If you don't have that passion and you don't have that love that you developed as a kid, you're done. So let's go back to environment over level. I love that statement.
Speaker 2:Joey Decord, in our area we're in New england, boston, and the best league is the ehf. That's where the best players play. Joey de corde has one ehf game played. He never played ehf. He played that next level down and once again, but it was a good team. He saw lots of shots, it was a great environment. He loved the game. He kept on getting better.
Speaker 2:You don't have to as a goaltender, you don't have to play at the highest level, but you have to be at a competitive level. So you can't just, you know, play at the lowest level and think that one day you're going to get there. You have to be challenged, you have to be in a competitive environment, you have to play, and it's not about playing on the best team in the best league, it's about getting experience, getting shots and being in the right environment. So he goes right through youth hockey and then it comes in the end of the youth hockey stage and it's oh, what are you going to do here? You want to be a player or goalie. And um, we had, we had this discussion and he said I really love playing forward, but I really think I'm good at goalie and if I want to make it to the nhl, I want to be a goal, I'm going to be a goalie. So that was kind of like the turning point yeah, not at eight.
Speaker 3:By the way, right, brian Brian, this is an eight-years-old.
Speaker 2:This is 14-years-old. He was still doing both. He was still doing both.
Speaker 3:Right, I mean, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:And obviously he played at the select level as a goalie, played at a higher level as a goalie, right? So then it was okay, ninth grade, what do you do? Well, well, here, prep school is the big thing, right? You know, play prep school. Now you're getting more into the academies and the clubs are getting better and better at the 14U and 16U and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:But at that time it was really about going to prep school and Joey played two years of public high school hockey at the Division II level for North Andover High School. And so when he went to Cushing Academy after North Andover and that was, you know, it was when I talked to the coach it was like, okay, he's going to stay here until he's ready to leave at the high school level, we'll, we'll work on that mutually. So it was a mutual understanding. And then, when it came down to, okay, he had done really well and he went to prep school and in prep school he repeated his sophomore year, okay. So he reclassed when he played his first game at Cushing Academy, which is a powerhouse the highest level he had ever played when he played his first game at Cushing Academy.
Speaker 2:He, as a sophomore, he had 48 games played at the high school level before he played his first game at prep school. That's putting someone in a position to succeed. And I tell goalie parents this all the time Take the stairs, don't take the elevator. You take the elevator, you go up too fast, you're going to miss all these experiences and all this development. Just stay at a good competitive level, just keep getting better and then and they'll come. So.
Speaker 2:So he did the prep school and he was there for his sophomore year and junior year and he was, uh, ranked 14th for the nhl draft, wow. And he didn't get drafted. So he, he was not drafted his first year of the draft and that's quite something. So he doesn't get drafted. And then he goes out to mass player development to see who's going to get selected for USA Hockey. He gets to the final two. He doesn't get selected, he doesn't make it. So now, 14th round pick doesn't get picked. 14th round ranked for the draft doesn't get picked for. The goalies Doesn't get selected for the USA Hockey Development Camp. Okay, oh, career's over right. Everybody thinks you have to have these things. You have to have these things. But they were tremendous experiences because he got through them and we have a saying every time something rough happens and he faces resiliency, he looks at his hand and goes hey, dad, more calluses, more calluses on these hands. And the point is that the more you go through, the tougher you get, the more that you can get through.
Speaker 2:So it was really funny. I'll tell you this story. So he had gone his two years at Cushing and he had, you know, going into senior year. But you have all the junior teams that are saying hey, go junior, you know you got to move past prep school, you weren't drafted, all this kind of stuff. And then it was the big decision Do you go junior or do you go back to prep school? Back to prep school.
Speaker 2:And for us it was really funny because we had one of the people at Cushing and they had talked to Joey about coming back and they were like hey, you know, you should play for this split season team at the beginning of the year. And this is what you do at prep school. You play for a split season team before you play the prep school season and you shouldn't play soccer now joey was the captain of the soccer team, captain of the tennis team, captain of the soccer team, captain of the hockey team, so he was a tri-captain and, um, they, they were pushing hard for him not to play soccer and eventually this was a funny phone call eventually Eventually, I said you know what, you're right, he should just focus on hockey, that next year I'm going to send him out to Minnesota to play for the wilderness in the Null. And they were like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3:You've made my choice. You're making me make my choice, thank you.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, no, no, wait, wait a minute. No, no, he can. No, he can play soccer, he can come back. So it was funny. He had no scholarships, he had nothing. And he went back for his senior year and he ended up ranked 10th. He got a full scholarship to arizona state university and, uh, he was drafted in the seventh round of the united children.
Speaker 2:Wow, you know. But but hey, could you imagine as a parent that decision? You got so many people, you got to go junior, you got to go junior and you've got the people at the school saying, well, you got to give up soccer. You know, you got to give up all these things coming at you and then you just got to make a decision Once again environment. He loved playing soccer, he loved the school. It was a great fit and it was like, hey, you know what? You didn't get it done last year. You're 14th, you didn't get a scholarship, go back, go get it, go earn it Right at the level Master, the level that you're at, and then we'll worry about moving on after that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think I think goaltenders to you know have, you know, not that it's at that, it's an advantage, disadvantage, it's just a different you know piece of where you are in development. Because I think the environment I just was listening to like hockey prospects radio over the weekend and you know there's highly touted goaltender coming in that nobody's really seen on the radar because he has like a 7.3 goals against average or something like that but he's playing on the worst team in the league. He's saved, he's got like 56 shots on net. You know he's just in a great but he's in a great environment like he's, like you know, sound goaltender, has all the you know the mental. I mean, think about this kid, he's, he keeps going in the net, right, he's not quitting. So I I think it's just about that.
Speaker 2:Are you talking about Mikhail Egorov?
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know. Yeah, maybe it's the Because he played on.
Speaker 2:arguably, one of the worst teams in the USHL was getting bombarded every night, but we actually committed him out of Omaha. But he's ranked number one on Central's list, so it could have been him.
Speaker 3:Because you're seeing him like you're. That's the, that's the eyeball test, right? It's not like that's a great.
Speaker 2:That's a great, it is a great example, because it's not about being on the best team and and he wasn't, you know the highly touted guy coming in and so on and so forth it it's about taking the stairs, it's about mastering the level that you're at before you move on. And you know, if you think about it, if you're, you're. People make mistakes when they're in a rush right. When you're in a rush to do something, or you're rushed to get out of the house, oh, you forgot something you were supposed to bring. So, if you think we're not going to rush, we're going to get what we need done at the level we're at and then we're going to move on. That's really the development path.
Speaker 2:Now for your coaches that are out there, I don't agree with that from a player standpoint. From a player standpoint, I think it's really important to play at the highest level you can. It's not a necessity for goaltenders and, of course, if you're a great goaltender playing a great league and a great team, fine, that's great. We're not saying don't play for that team. I'm not saying that at all. But if you're not, don't worry about it, you're fine, don't?
Speaker 3:worry about it, you're fine. Well, I think I think that's where the anxiety comes in, because a parent now has to deal with a kid and a coach and other parents, because the last line of defense is the fact that, okay, I'm, I'm letting my child go through this process and, yes, there's getting six goals against them. The team's losing. My son is getting better, he's getting better and better and better.
Speaker 3:But think you can just talk a little bit about how you would approach well, any level, but really the youth hockey level on a kid that plays on a lesser team is a better goalie is trying to take the stairs mentally. How do they talk themselves into being like listen, I am good, I am my job, I'm accomplishing what I need to accomplish as a goaltender. I can't do anything about the 6D in front of me and the 15 forwards. I can't score goals, I can't dump the puck out. Just talk a little bit about what a parent can do to kind of talk that player up and make sure they're staying in a good mental place to say, because it is a long listen to your journey.
Speaker 3:Your son's journey went from not even knowing he was going to be a goalie at 14 to playing in the NHL.
Speaker 2:And this year he was the nine-year overnight success.
Speaker 3:It drafted nine years ago, Right right, we knew it all the time. We knew it all the time overnight, overnight success.
Speaker 2:No, nine years of grinding it out from right.
Speaker 3:I think, I think at the youth loft and especially where we are right in new england and the northeast it's. It's even a bigger pressure cooker, I think, because there's, so you could.
Speaker 2:You could easily just hop and go across the street, go to another program and be happy so here's the first, here's the first thing I tell you, mike, the first thing I tell you is is to express gratitude for being in the situation where you are getting shot. So in the goalie world, this is what it comes down to. If you do your research and you analyze the goalies that make it, uh, and probability of goalies making it. If I said to you what's the most important stat in goaltending, some some people would go, oh, it's wins, goalie that wins, that's the most important stat. Someone say, oh no, it's save percentage, save percentage over goals against average, and so on and so forth. And and you look at, you look at stats and if you study it, you realize, if you look back in time, stats mean nothing. There's only one stat in goaltending that has any relevance in terms of predicting success and that's games played. It's the only stat. You've got so many goalies that have made it that. The commonality is that they've played a lot of games. Going back to Stuart Skinner, look at Stuart Skinner's path. Look how many games he played in major junior, look how many games in the minors he's played. So you take a look at being grateful for getting the experience, getting those shots, being able to not be on a team where you go to a game and there's 10 shots, because every shot is a chance to get better and there's a big difference. Let's go into this a little bit in terms of being grateful for being on a team that's not that good. You're shot in practice, maybe you're on a better team and you're seeing better shots in practice, which is great, but those shots in practice have no consequence. There's a difference between reading a release and reading a play in a game with real consequences than it is in practice. And I say so. Let's say we went over and played some golf, right, and we go to Andover Country Club down the road here. We'd go there and the three of us we go to the t-box and the starters there and you'd have guys coming the 18th, coming off the 18th. You'd have the next group behind us and you got people on the patio and in the bar watching and take your first t-shot. Okay, that's one type of experience. There's consequences there. Like all of a sudden you got 15, 20 people watching. You take your first swing of the day. Then you go through the first hole, you go to the second hole, you go up around the trees. Now it's just the three of us and now we're hitting the ball. It's a completely different experience. So you want to get shots with consequences? Okay. So that's one thing.
Speaker 2:Now, in terms of tricks and tips for goalies that play on weaker teams, you have to do things to give them a chance to succeed. So, first off, stop playing games. Games are three periods long. Break that game up until three games. There are three distinct games. First period that's one game. So now you have, let's say, lee's the coach and Mike. You have a son and he plays his first period. He goes over and he goes. Okay, how do we do? Yeah, coach, we lost two, nothing, all right, hey, two, nothing. Okay, look, new game coming up. Second period zero, zero. Let's see how we do. Come over Coach 1-1. All right, fantastic, we tied the game. Let's go win this third game. Let's go the third. Now you go hey, we won 1-0. We won two to one. So now you get some wins. So you got to find some ways to get some wins. And what are you trying? Always broke the game up into five minute segments, and it was five minutes at even NHL, five minutes segments. And I'm going to tell you a story. This is great for the parents to understand, your goalie parents to understand. So I remember. So Richard Schneider, awesome guy I remember having a conversation with Corey's dad and it was about a half hour conversation and it was about the team and the coach and what was going on and everything like that.
Speaker 2:And I put down the phone and I immediately got another call and it was from the goalie parent of a peewee. Okay, I literally had the exact same conversation. So nothing changes from the time you're 10 to the time you're 30. There's some zeros involved and everything like that, but nothing really changes. You're talking about the same stuff and I always tell parents it's so funny. They're like, geez, my goalie's 12, 14. Geez, the stress. It's been a grind. I'm like you're just getting started and and it never changes, it's all. It's always the same stuff. So it's just. Obviously it's a little magnified because of the dollars, but uh, yeah, but not in their mind, right?
Speaker 2:no, no, it's the same you're dealing with the same issues, yeah right in their mind.
Speaker 3:It's like the money. Like you know, when you, when you get to a certain level the nhl I mean everybody says it's work, right, but it's still a game and it's still. You have to have fun and you have to break those things down. You have to find a way. How can I make this enjoyable for myself and not, you know, and not just being a pressure cooker all the time? And I, you know, I feel my son plays goalie, but in lacrosse, right. So I had to get over this whole feeling that, like I'm like, oh my God, eight goals against this is horrible. That's a really great game. I had a great game, like you know.
Speaker 2:He got a chance. He got a chance to come back after eight goals and build resiliency.
Speaker 3:Yeah but it's just a hard thing, like mentality-wise, when most games are like 18 to 17 or something like that.
Speaker 3:Right, you don't get like a 2-1 lacrosse game, but I think it's. But you look as a parent and the one thing that talking to Lee and being on these Our Kids Play Goalie podcasts and listening to different goaltenders and coaches I'm able to understand even better as a hockey coach that you've got to set aside Like listen. Sometimes when you talk to your goaltenders you do have to be a little selfish and be like listen, you can't do anything about the rest of the bench, like you need to break your game down into what you can control and what you can muster mentally, like you can't. There's not a lot you can do about the emotional piece that's happening on the bench. Right, because I mean, it's almost like the way I look at it. A lot when I watch a game it is a skirmish in the crease Most of the time. The goalies get up and they skate to the corner and they're kind of like, well, that's not my problem.
Speaker 3:Like I started it, but I'm not. Yeah, you guys got to take care of this behind me, but I think it's just a way for them to get out of there and get into a different mindset and be like I'm, which I think is a good thing. They're extracted from the team. They're extracted from that moment of the game because they don't have a chance to go reset on the bench. They've got to find a way to reset in moment in the time of an actual game going on.
Speaker 2:But I love what you said when I talked to my goalies. So we have goalies 8 years old, 10 years old, 12 years old. Whatever they go to the rink, they get dressed, they go play a game, they get undressed, they leave the rink. They had no communication with an adult. Literally Coach hasn't said a thing to them.
Speaker 2:And so the fact that you just said, when you talk to your goalies, I'm like yes, talking to the goalies and and like the worst thing you can try to do is talk goalie lingo, because most kids are getting training at a young age that they're getting all the terminology you know. Then you start trying to throw some terms out and they're going to look at you like, no, yeah, if you talk to them in English, then then that's good, but it's just the communic, it's the communication part. But you got to understand. You got to keep one number in your head. Okay, the number is the average age of a college division.
Speaker 2:One commit do you guys know what that is? It's 19.6. You know, say I was gonna say 20, 19.6 years of age is the average commit for a goalie. So, like these games, you're just getting better. Why are you playing these games? To have fun and get better. And guess what, if you got 40 shots in that game and that other goalie got 12, guess what? You got 28 more chances to get better than that guy, isn't that?
Speaker 1:awesome, brian, I love what you're saying. I'll tell you something funny. For whatever reason, throughout my entire time playing and coaching, I have always gotten along with goaltenders. I was a center. I never played goalie, ever but maybe there's a little goalie in me. And one of the things that's happening now that I can't quite explain is that when we get period breaks Mike I don't even know if you know this Whatever age I'm coaching, the goaltender tends to come to me and I don't take it lightly, right?
Speaker 1:They're coming to me for whatever reason, but when I talk to them, the conversations range from you usually ask how you feeling. I let them talk to me. Sometimes we talk about hockey, sometimes we talk about something else. The idea is I'm just trying to talk to them to get them to wherever they need to be mentally to feel better, to get back in the net. And I remember, um, recently I was coaching a game. We were down and he came to me a little bit down and I said how you feeling?
Speaker 1:And and it was just what you just said he's like oh man, they're peppering me. I'm like I said how exciting, that was the words. He's, how exciting, awesome that you're getting all these shots, um. So yeah, I think that one of the reasons we made this show is exactly for what you said there should be no player on a team that comes in and has no uh interaction with an adult goalie or skater, right, because I mean, what are you coaching for if you're not doing that? So one of the questions I wanted to ask you and you've been dropping a lot of gold on here about the environment- I'm going to stop you right there.
Speaker 2:Can you hold that question now? Yeah, please go. So I'm going to tell you when we talk about this. That's why sorry, usa Hockey or Hockey Canada or whatever, but goalie parents have to car coach Interesting. They do because the kids don't get anything. Most of them, like almost every youth kid, shows up at practice. There's not a goalie guy there, right, so they go to practice. They're not getting any feedback.
Speaker 2:So I think it's up to us, as goalie parents, to educate ourselves so that we're able to understand how to talk to our kids. How do you talk to them before a game? How do you talk to them after a game? I think that's important, because they're just not getting that, and then, if they're not, then it's not coming out of them too, because it's important, right, Like that in between period stuff, that stuff, that stuff is gold.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you this, and I take this from joey right, he is, he's got a great mindset. I'm so jealous of him. I wish I had his mindset when I played, but he has this thing. He goes. You know what? You can't stop a puck when no one's shooting at you. You can't stop a puck when no one's shooting at you. And in between periods, guess what? No one's shooting at you. The night before a game, no one's shooting at you. The morning of a game, no one's shooting at you. Like, why worry about the game? You can't stop a puck when no one's shooting at you. And it's a great way to look at it, right? Because so many kids, they bring the game home with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why are you down? No one's shooting at you. Why worry about it? You can't do anything about it while no one's shooting at you. So it's a great little mindset. The other thing that just comes to mind. I've got to get this out because I think it's so important. You've probably talked to your son about staying at the same level, being even keel, not getting too high and too low, for sure. So I've always, you know, a goalie can't get too high or too low, and whenever I start something towards that line, joey tells me to shut my mouth. He hates when I say that he goes. You know what, dad? He goes. It is so hard sometimes being a goalie. When things go right, I'm going to enjoy it. So now, when you watch, if Joey gets first star of the game, he gets out on the ice, he hugs the mascot, he throws his fish, he gets the crowd, he has a ball.
Speaker 3:Right, why should I? Why should I not? He throws his fish.
Speaker 2:He gets the crowd Like he has a ball Right and he's like why should I not get up and high when things are good? Because I'm going to be low when it gets hard. It sucks, it's tough. So I've kind of changed my view on it, saying yeah, goalies, have some fun, enjoy it, you're all right have some fun, enjoy it.
Speaker 1:You're asking it, let's go. I think it's about defining what is get too high or too low mean, because the way I describe this with my son, my son dances between stoppages right, and I've never told him to stop because I think it's the coolest thing in the world. He's enjoying the game. So I appreciate what you said 100% and I agree with you. I think when I say to him or any of the players, don't get too high or too low, it's be present. If you're feeling good, live in that moment, all right, but but you have to have the ability to control the emotion, so it doesn't control you. There is a point that if you get too excited and then you transfer that to a cocky state of mind of okay, now we're going to win, that to me is that's too high. Same thing with pain, though. I want you to feel the pain because you've got to live in that too.
Speaker 3:But don't allow that to control you. We talk to all our players about that. I'm in New York, so rangers go down by a goal. It's up season's over. Pack it in it's over it's exactly what ranger fans.
Speaker 1:That's it, we're done, it's all done or you know, or we score.
Speaker 3:You know the team scores a goal and you hear the kids I hear the kids down the hall, you know yelling and screaming oh, that's it. We're going all the way where you know this is, this is gonna be it. I'm like there is a, there's a long time in the game and I think that's like. So, brian, I love to mean you know, we we say that to anybody right Goalies forwards, defensemen like you, we, and you see it at your level and you certainly see at the pro level all the time where, like, you score a goal with two minutes left in the adulation of the score and then they give up a goal like five seconds later, and he was like, and then it just defeats you.
Speaker 3:But and seconds later, and he's like, and then it just defeats you, but and that's where I kind of feel you got to be even. But at the end of the game, when you're like I was, we had one goalie who's actually doing really well now and at the beginning he started playing for me and after we would score, I was like, taking it back by, he'd be at our bench like screaming and patting the guys and giving high fives and he's in the game and I I had never seen that at the youth level before with a goalie like coming all the way down to the bench and giving everybody a high five on the bench. And at first I was like just get in the goddamn net, like what are you doing over here? And then I was just like this, I love it Cause the kids got so much energy out of it. This kid, this is this kid.
Speaker 1:I think like it's, did he lose focus after that?
Speaker 3:I think it was more focused and I think the guys wanted to play for him even harder. Right, because they saw that his emotion and his energy and his passion were there, and you know. But at the same time, he didn't go and hide into the net when he gave up a goal and sulked in the corner.
Speaker 1:And to bring it back to Brian. To you You're like, let's go, I got to say something about the glove taps there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. So when Joey went pro, so in college right, most college goalies after a goal will skate by the bench if it's first or third period will skate to the bench and get in the line, the glove line right, and then. But in the NHL and pro, like that, that wasn't really. That was kind of frowned on, a little bit like you don't do that. And then joey's doing it and I'm saying hold on, okay. And then we were talking about it he's like hey, I'm part of the, I want to, I want to sell it with the team, right, right, right. So so after goal he goes and goes and he gets in the glove line and he goes high five and then he goes back to the net and I'm like, awesome, I love that. I think it's sick.
Speaker 1:And what I remember about Joey too is I remember after the Winter Classic he was doing like a post-game press conference and you just got the impression this guy is enjoying it, he just loves it, and he was not monotone in that press conference. He had a good time and you could not not feel what he was feeling, right, Just the adulation and the fun. You know, maybe if you're a Vegas fan, but not. But just the point is is that you know that's him, that's authentically him, and I don't think he's losing focus in any way. I think, like Mike said, it probably enhances it. It probably enhances it. So I think that's a delicate balance.
Speaker 1:But I do agree with you about not putting them in a little cage and saying, hey, don't think. To me that's one of the big things in youth hockey that I have a problem with is we tell don't think, don't cry, don't yell, don't scream, no, no, you got to let them feel, because that emotion is actually part of the game and their ability to control that emotion as they get older, or at least understand it, can put them forth. I mean, look, let's go back 20 years when Ovechkin started and he would celebrate every goal. People are like oh, this guy's a showboat, this guy's a show man. That was fun, All right.
Speaker 2:And he still does. He has so much passion he does, he loved it. He enjoyed it Like let's go. Who?
Speaker 1:didn't like that. Right Now, I do want to bring this back to a question for the audience here. Right, we talked about how you said it goaltenders might go the whole game not talking to anybody. What are some of the changes we can make at practices, maybe at games, to both incorporate youth goaltenders into the practice more, like you know, thinking about what coaches do or don't know right. And then also, why is that important? Because you know, another reason we made this show is because there's a huge detriment at the youth level of hey, just get in the net and make saves. Um, I have seen some organizations bring in third-party help with goaltending. My organization has done that. I'm very thankful for that.
Speaker 2:Um, but what?
Speaker 1:we are and I don't take that for granted. You talked about environment over level. I'm keeping him at this level and this environment because of exactly what you're talking about. He's enjoying it, he's loving it. He's also very young but, with that said right, keeping it at the kind of the youth level right now. What is your advice to coaches when they're when they're planning the practices, when they're creating their practices or their vision for the season, to incorporate goaltending into that more?
Speaker 2:All right, so I their practices or their vision for the season to incorporate goaltending into that more. All right, so I'll go off on this a little bit now. Here we go. Um, first off, there should be no dead time for goalies in practice. Okay, meaning if there's a lull in practice, goal should be skating and it's up to the goalies, like like on our Stopping Goaltending U app, we have all these goalies skating drills that the goalies can look up and they'll have a million drills to do so.
Speaker 2:If you think about it, right, if Mike's got a 10-year-old and you got a 10-year-old, and every time you go on the ice, when there's dead time in practice before, after, during, during explanations or coaching, whatever and he goes in his crease and does skating Two minutes here, five minutes there, so now maybe it's 15, 20 minutes a week, 20 minutes a week, three practices a week, right, that starts to add up. And you think about you. Both have kids and one of them is taking advantage of all that dead ice and one's not Exponentially. The improvement is going to be much better in the goalie. So I think that, coaches, when you go up to the board and explain the drill, should the goalie be paying attention? Absolutely, are they, absolutely not. They're going to be looking at the board.
Speaker 3:Does the drill end within those red lines? Yes, where's?
Speaker 2:the shot.
Speaker 2:That's what they're going to say they're going to say where's the shot. So you know what, instead of them going around and waiting, do your skating drills, pass the puck, do something with an assistant, like, take advantage of that time. I think there's so much that Andrew Raycroft works with me. We talk about it all the time. It's about maximizing those minutes on the ice, right? So I think that's a big, important one. I'm writing that down. The other thing that I believe strongly about is that we're going down just way too much in practice. Okay, a goalie knows how to make a butterfly save. The goalie does not have to go down every shot in practice. So we have, as the goalies are getting older, we have a hip epidemic, fais labrums, we we have lots of issues with all the goalies because of all the external rotations. So if you do a little math, right. So in a typical 80 minute practice, let's say at a higher level, there'll be 125 butterflies done in practice, all right. So let's say it's a junior team, okay, four days a week, that's 500 butterflies during practice. That's just butterflies. I'm not talking about RVHs or anything else, just butterflies in practice. That's the average, okay. So now you go and you got 500 a week, you get 2000 a month, eight months of it of a junior season. Oh my God, think about that. No wonder we've got overuse.
Speaker 2:So I have a thing again on my soapbox about the 10-20 rule. First 10 shots of a shooting drill the goalie's just getting in position using hands, stick, tracking pucks. And then after the first 10 shots, okay, I got the drill, I got it all down, boom, work, footwork and they're trying to stop pucks and they're using their hands. And then the next 10 shots, let's go. Okay, but after your 20 shots into a drill, you're not going down again, because now you're starting to get tired, now your form starts to slip and that's where you start getting into issues. Okay, so the other great thing about it is those first 10 shots I'm not going down. I'm not default dropping, because if you're going down every shot it's going to get quicker and quicker and quicker that you're dropping.
Speaker 2:And it's all about being in the league Goaltenders, all about reading the play and reading the release. So these first 10 shots, you're reading the release, you're reacting to the puck. You're not just dropping, going to take a lot of the net just because of net coverage and then reacting from there. You're actually looking to see where that puck's going. And if that puck's going left, you're putting that weight on that right skate and you're moving, shifting to the left, so all this stuff happens. I'm not just straight dropping and then reaching. So you've got a whole development tool right there to use. Coaches and the players see the goalies aren't going down every shot. They think the goalie's not working Right. So now it's up to you, mike. It's up to you to train your staff and your kids to understand that when you do the first 20 minutes of practice and you're taking 7,000 shots that goalie's not supporting, they're working on something.
Speaker 3:I love the statistic over the weekend that I saw Dave Starman tweet out about the comparison of a youth pitcher pitching when they have these pitch counts right and what we don't do with our goaltenders, and it's the same idea. Like my son was a catcher in youth baseball, he was the only kid that would play catcher, so the coaches would have him play catcher the whole like a whole game. I'm like well, he's throwing more pitches back to the mound than any pitcher you have. You've had four pitchers and one catcher and he's throwing back, except the dingers that are going out of the park no-transcript bit and may not apply to all youth teams.
Speaker 2:You know, do you guys have two, two goalies on your teams?
Speaker 1:this is me the first time. My son doesn't have a goaltending partner, but they are looking for one.
Speaker 3:That's the other part of my question, and so I'll lay in on this, but go ahead. I have another question about that.
Speaker 2:So we've adapted at BU for this and Maria Mountain, expert in off-ice training for goalie development, she's the one that really got me going with this in off ice training for for goalie development. She's the one that really got me going with this. But you know, if you look at how goalies practice, it doesn't make any sense. So in a game you get some action down at your end, maybe a flurry of shots, whatever and then it goes down to the other end and it goes back and forth and back and forth. But what do we do? We stick a goalie in net and we go two, three minutes shot, shot, shot, shot. So you're performing with a high heart rate, right, so your heart rate's up there, you don't have any breaks. But in a game you're up and you're down, and so what happens is naturally all those shooting drills. You're starting off practice. What? What does a goalie play At 100%? No chance. If a goalie's practicing at 100%, they can't make it through a drill. If they're going down following, they're doing all that stuff. So what we've instituted at BU is what we call game mode. So when we're at practice doing the shooting drills, we have one goalie in that for four to six shots, that's it, wow. And then we rotate. So now you got two goalies at one end and they're going back and forth. Six shots back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. That's like a game Up down, up down. Now it's game mode, because they play every shot like it's a game shot. They follow every rebound like someone's going to shoot the rebound, whether someone's there or not. So it's work. They go through. Now.
Speaker 2:The other thing is I've never coached so much in my life. So now Chewy's in that. Max is beside him. Chewy takes six shots. He comes out, max goes in. Hey Chewy, that shot over the glove. You're like way too deep dude. Oh yeah, you're right. Okay, now picture this in normal practice mode. Goalies are in there, the whole drill, whatever. Hey Chewy, remember 27 shots ago when you got a shot over the glove, right, right it doesn't work right, or you're yelling at them in the drill yeah, they can't hear you yeah, yeah, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:and and so. So therefore, like now they go in, take their force. I've got something to say. Every time they come, I'm constantly coaching during game mode. It's the greatest thing for me, because practice flies by. I'm not sitting there watching a guy get 42 shots in a row and then he's exhausted and then I go tap him on the butt as he goes to get water. Like what am I doing here? So now I'm constantly so. They're getting feedback and they're in and out and they're practicing at the right level.
Speaker 2:So when we had Drew Camesso, who was second round draft pick Chicago and plays for Rockford right now, like the way I told him is we have to practice at a higher level. You can't practice at the pace of the level you're playing at. You want to play at a high level. Let's play at a higher pace. Let's push ourselves a higher pace. Let's push ourselves spot to spot. If you're playing at the level of of, you're not getting better. You've got to. You got to push yourself. And so if you have two goalies on a team, you can do some drills where the goalies are down at one end, going back and forth in game mode, and now they're practicing with a higher intensity and they're getting their rest in between and that's the way they play a game. And I'm going to tell you this because when I use the word intensity, I think intensity is huge for a goaltender to be able to play with intensity and I think that intensity is what makes teams. So I had to go. I have a bridge Academy here. I've got I got 16 kids that come in and they train here at the pad in in in Boston, outside of Boston, and and they're here all day and they do online. It's a one year program.
Speaker 2:And there was this, this goalie I had and it was the sought-after goalie I've ever had and I was like really good goalie. So I went to a game and I knew within two minutes why all the prep school coaches wanted this goalie. Game was about to start, tap the post, glove to the post, step out to the top of the crease and I'm like whoa Play comes in the zone, talking post, post out. There was this, the I word, the intensity word, and I'm saying, yeah, if I'm a coach, that's the goalie I want too. It doesn't mean it's frantic, it doesn't mean it's out of control. It doesn't mean it's frantic, it doesn't mean it's out of control. It doesn't mean it's over the top, but it's doing things with the purpose being definitive, going to my post definitively stepping out, definitively up down, definitively calling out commands, showing confidence.
Speaker 2:There's that focus, intensity level, and I think that's the difference between goalies when they go to a tryout. Now you go to a tryout and you got one goalie who's dialed and another goalie that's maybe not. You can feel the intensity from the goalie that's dialed in and maybe not a skill, but I want that kid to play for me, but you want, I want that kid to play for me. So so I think that that we have to really focus, as as goalie parents and coaches, to bring out that intensity, because without that intensity maybe they don't make that team, maybe that scout that comes to see them doesn't leave there going. I want that goalie because they didn't feel that intensity. Intensity goes a long way.
Speaker 3:So so in that, in that thought process and you mentioned it earlier about Joey never being the only goalie on the team, how important is it? Because I personally think it's important. But what are your thoughts on sharing the net and having two goaltenders and, ideally, if you could get them with close to equal ability, like both being passionate, both being sound goaltenders, both being good competitors? Maybe talk a little bit about to the parents how. Maybe it's not important, but I think it's important what the dynamics is between a team that has one goalie and a team that has two goalies and how that kind of works for their own development.
Speaker 2:All right. So I'm at the Winter Classic. Who's sitting beside me? Joey's goalie partner from Mites and Squirts Right. That tells you that relationship. They're best friends today and they were goalie partners growing up through the youth system.
Speaker 2:So here's the thing that I want to be really clear. Like I love the two goalie thing, I think there's great value of if you're the only goalie, you get all the reps, you get all the games. So there's two completely different. It's apples and oranges, but there's benefits to both. So it's not one way or the other. But my kids always had a goalie partner, all right.
Speaker 2:And the thing is that I want to be very clear about is they shouldn't have a goalie partner. Is if they're not at the same level, a team carries two goalies. If they have two goalies that are at that level. If they don't, they shouldn't be there. And I think that's where, oh, we have to play both goalies, well, it shouldn't be, we have't, they shouldn't be there. And I think that's where, oh, we have to play both goalies, well, it shouldn't be, we have to. They should be the same, they should be able to play in that league. And I think if you try to force it and you have a goalie, just because they want to be on the A team and not the B team, but they're not an A player. They shouldn't be playing A. Go with one goalie at the A level. But if you have two A's, take two A's. Don't not take two A's because you only want to have one goalie for the team. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no. I was thinking, yeah, and that's perfect sense actually, because it's just a matter of then. You're bringing even the practice level down and everything's down. The competition's not there there. The competition's not there, there is no. What I'm saying is when you have an opportunity to feed off each other and there's that pressure of like, oh my God, if I don't perform and maybe this isn't an 8 and 9 years old, Maybe this is a 14 and 15. I've got to compete.
Speaker 2:An 8 and 9 is fine. They're splitting the game, they're starting games, they're closing games, they're not backups, they're closers, like. So for me, I, I think it's great and look, it's goalie world and it's goalie nation and we live, we play a different sport, different psychological demands, like it's great to have someone that's living your, you know in in your world. You're not on an island every day for eight months. But I, I will say this one too, and and and and.
Speaker 2:People won't agree with me on this one wholeheartedly, but I had a thing with my kids growing up, when they were trying out for teams and whatever they were going to do. I said to the coaches I said if my son goes to a hockey game, he's playing. This is just me. I think it's ridiculous that a 10-year-old goes to a sporting event and a 12-year-old goes to a sporting event and doesn't play. I think it's the stupidest thing, like, just for me. And people will argue it's better for goalies to play the whole game and they should take their turns. And I understand and I could from a, you know, from a, okay, what's better developmentally, goalie, whatever, like, let's have that talk and that's fine. But irregardless, I don't, I don't give a rat's ass.
Speaker 3:To be honest with you, brian, these are the same people that won't dispute the fact that their kids sat for 40 minutes in practice not seeing a shot. So I'm like you know? Like okay, well, yeah, you want you. You're telling me that's your argument, but then I watched your team practice and your kids not even taking shots, like so what do you know? So what philosophy are you going with here?
Speaker 2:so like. For me, if a, if a youth athlete at any sport goes to a sporting event and doesn't play, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it's literally child abuse, literally telling a kid you're going to go, those 17 kids are going to play in this game, but you're not. Think about it. It makes no sense. And so, joey, all the way through up until, obviously, you get to prep school and then you earn your spots or whatever. But all you do, and from a coaching standpoint, if you want to go and get in this competitive, I love this one, I love hey, lee, here's the way my team's going to work this year. Both goalies are going to play, they're going to play 40%. Everybody gets 40%. One goalie gets 40%, one goal gets 40%, the other gets 40%, I get 20%. Maybe tournaments, maybe playoffs there's going to be. So now you can create different ages, whatever. But now you can create a little bit. But now the kids are going to play. But now when you get to a playoff game or you get to a tournament and you decide, guess what, this guy is hot, this guy is playing, let's go with it. Okay, so I, I can, I can go with that as you get a little bit older. You want to create that competition that you talked about. Now you can do a little 40, 40, 20. Yeah, no, that competitiveness is everything.
Speaker 2:But for me I always said to the coach so I, I would go, I would go to you, lee. I'd say, lee, here's the deal. And if you say it happened to me twice, I don't agree. I think the goalie should play four games. I'm like, well, that's fine, He'll go play somewhere else. But you know, let me ask you this I go, does your son play on the team? Yeah, okay, I said, how about this one? We'll make an agreement, lee, you play your son every other game and then you can play my son every other game.
Speaker 1:Let's do that.
Speaker 2:And then the coach looks at you and goes no, you're out of your mind. I'm not going like I'm not driving, I'm not leaving North Andover, driving an hour and ten minutes to Foxboro and my kid's not going to play. Right, they need that perspective. Well, that's what you're asking goalie parents to do. Give up a half day, give your kid. Your kid loses a half day and and you don't even you watch other kids play sports. Doesn't make like, that's just.
Speaker 1:That's just me, and and Brian like to echo what you said earlier. One of the things that we've done I think successfully with my kid is that when he's not net, he's out playing defense. Um, so he's always do that.
Speaker 2:You can do that probably not at the highest level.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, yeah, I'm talking high school, right, so no, I meant.
Speaker 2:I meant like let's say I'd, let's say, you know, 10u EHF. That's hard to do if that player, if the goalie isn't good enough to like, it probably wouldn't work.
Speaker 1:But I understand what you're saying, yeah well, again we've encouraged in a town or a lower level it's perfect yeah.
Speaker 1:So what we do with him is that last year on his club team, he, when he wasn't in that, he played d, and then he played d exclusively, um, only d, I should say, for his school team, just like you were saying, yeah, and he loves. He loves both positions, which is really wonderful. He always leans towards goaltending, but he takes a lot of pride in playing D and getting to a high level with that. So what's cool is it's almost like playing two different sports. Like you said, we always talk about multi-sports athletes and he is don't get me wrong, it is two different sports, two different sides of the game that he's playing.
Speaker 1:So I think that's at the younger levels. Excuse me, that's one solution. I think too, and I want to lead this into a question. I can't believe how quickly this episode is going is? I want to talk to you about communication, because we always talk about in the show. 10 out of 10 problems involve poor communication in some form. I think it starts the first day, right when you make a team.
Speaker 1:A coach should be speaking to a goaltender, talking to the goaltender and throughout the season, regularly talking to the goaltender about lots of different things. Now I don't want to assume those things. I want to ask you what types of communication should be going on between a coach and a goaltender and a goaltender's family, in some cases from the start of the season, through the season, because just go out there and stop the puck is not communication. You know, and I think that I appreciate when, when I and again I, obviously I coach too, but I appreciate when the head coaches come to me and say, hey, what does Logan want to work on? What does Logan need to work on? How is he feeling about practices? How can we get him more involved? I don't find that these conversations take place that often, right, so what? What is your stance? Obviously on communication from coaches to goalies. I'm not talking goaltending coaches, I'm talking coaches, right, like just just standard coaches. And what can we do better?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, first off, you're too late.
Speaker 2:Start of the season is too late. There you go, yeah. So okay, this is what I tell parents all the time. It's not a contract, it's not legal or whatever. So my son is going to play for Mike's team. Mike says, here, we want your son to play for us, here's the agreement, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:And I say, awesome, all right, mike, how are you going to work the goalies? Are they rotating? Are they playing full games? Is it play to win? Is it 50-50? Well, what's it going to be? All right, we go to tournaments. How are we going to work things at tournaments? How are things going to work at playoffs?
Speaker 2:All right, what's going on at practice? Is there someone there at practice? Is this one of the coaches? That is not the goalie coach, necessarily, but I say you should have someone on your staff. One of the coaches should be the coach responsible for the goalies. Okay, it's not the head coach, it's just one of the assistants. They're not a goalie coach, but they're responsible. So they're the ones that are saying, hey, we're going to go power play down, let's go down here, let's do skating drills, cause we're about to go demonstrate something there for the. Let's do so anyways.
Speaker 2:So that conversation all takes place right at the time where you're signing the agreement to play and then what I tell parents do. Then you take that conversation, you put it in an email. Hey Mike, great conversation of the day. Johnny's excited to play for you. It's awesome we're going with the 40-40-20. It's nice. You're going to have a goalie coach every second week at a practice. You know what I mean. Like whatever it is, you spell it out and it's done and you send it off and now you have a copy. That's great.
Speaker 2:Because this conversation can't happen at the New England Sports Center after your kid just didn't play the semifinal and grandma came, and grandpa came and the sister and brother came and everybody's there to see Johnny play in the tournament, and now the coach plays the other kid and then dad's waiting for the coach in the parking lot. Like that conversation can't happen at that point. So all that communication that you talk about what to expect, what's going to go on, that's got to take place when deciding on the team and committing to that year, not after that and brian, the best organizations also do that proactively to their families.
Speaker 3:Right, I mean the best organization? Yeah, I mean that I've seen like they say, like it's not just we have a goalie coach. Okay, what the hell does that mean? Like, and there's a goalie coach, even talked to the head coach. Like you know, like, like I know in my experience in a lot of organizations I've been working with, like they have a goalie coaches, but there's no interaction between the goalie coach and the head coach. The head coach, the goalie coach, just shows up at the practice, says, hey, I'm the goalie coach today. Like, well, okay, uh, go ahead, take them when you need them. You know, and I think it's like this whole, but I think laying that out there and articulating that for both parties is so strong for advocating for your kid, but also an organization advocating for goalies. You want to come play for me? This is why you want to play for me.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you this because we provide this absolutely. We we we.
Speaker 3:We want to enhance your goaltending experience, knowing and just admitting the fact that it is a different position. It's a whole different philosophy of how we're going to work it. Because I can't work you in, um, when I'm screaming at the kids for 25 minutes on the power play breakout and the goaltenders it's in the middle of the breakout, really not doing anything. I can't justify that, right, but in this way I'm like no, no, during these times, like I've even listened, I've got to the point where I'll even bring in if I know I'm having a specific week of practices where I'm working on certain things that don't have a lot of goaltending interaction, I'll bring a goaltender in from another team just for extra ice and let my other two goaltenders work with the goalie coach alone, like where, like they're not even part of the team, like I'm like this is your chance to do this. I just need somebody in the net to have a puck hit him every now and then you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So I think that's like to me and that's, and that kid loves it. Because they go, I'm getting to play on the. You know I got called up. Or you know I got pulled, I get extra ice time, I'm getting more. So you've got to think outside of our normal traditional like okay, you show up, like to your point, brian, you show up, you get dressed, you go on, you save some pucks, you get undressed, you go home and there's no corresponding. And then the parents, to your point, you can't bring that up in January 18th in a tournament, and I think it's just like that's and that's again. That's why you know, listen, that's that's why we're here right now, you know, having this conversation, and I love it.
Speaker 2:I love that you guys care so much about it.
Speaker 1:We do, we generally do, and you know it's funny, we started doing this prior to my son becoming a goaltender and it just happened to fall in my lap a little bit of all the great advice that we get from my family and my kid, and it really is a wonderful experience in a lot of different ways, outside the obvious. Brian listen, I got a page full of notes here. I mean we could keep going. One thing I got to ask about because we're running out of time is Sens Arena and the goaltending side of it. I'll start this question with this.
Speaker 1:I've never played goalie except in that VR headset and as limiting as that is compared to the real game man did that give me a completely different perspective on the game. Aside from it being a little bit of a game and having fun, just to have virtual shots taken on me has really opened my eyes to goaltending. And again I want to reiterate I'm not saying it's the same thing. I'm not saying that that VR experience is the same as the on ice experience. Obviously, you're not dropping a butterfly in the VR experience, but I was amazed at how immersive it was and what it has done for me as a coach and a player. So I want to ask you you've been involved with this Again, you're a director over there.
Speaker 1:Again, I've seen your son use it. Right, tell me about Sensorena and kind of from a goaltending standpoint maybe, how this is innovating or changing, because when I see NHL goaltenders using this to warm up, that says something. Right, this is not just a little Nintendo thing anymore. Right, this is something that's becoming a real training tool. I've also noticed they're not in there for an hour, right, they're in there for a really short amount of time and it kind of warms up the senses. So, talk to me about Sensorena a little bit from a goaltending standpoint.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll go back a little bit how you led that in your experience with it and it makes me think of Elvis Merce Lickens when he got his. So he goes, he puts it on, he's down in the basement. Uh, like, within two minutes he puts it down, he goes to get his wife and he puts his wife in the headset. Honey, this is what I do, like, like, and she's like, oh my god, like, now she understands what it's like and how fast. Now she understands the experience. It gave her a whole new outlook in terms of what his job is. It is.
Speaker 2:Obviously my son is a really good example of a typical user. So I'm involved, you know a lot to do with the development of the drills and all this kind of stuff, and and. So he got his headset and he got sensorina and he tried it and he didn't put it on for two years. And it was hard for me because I'm there helping and I'm part of it and my son isn't using it. And then one day he's playing they don't have a morning skate, this is pro Doesn't have a morning skate. So he wanted a morning skate. So he's like you know what? I'll throw that VR thing on and you know, see how that is. So he went 15, 20 minutes of doing the VR. What happens that night Gets a shutout.
Speaker 1:That's how you get them to do it.
Speaker 2:The rest is history. And then now every practice go in. So you think about it right. If you use it before a practice, your eyes, you're starting to get in tune. You're starting to get in tune. Yeah, you're starting to get going. And all the goalies will tell us they have much better practices when they do the vr before they go on the ice for practice. I can see that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I can see that just from using myself well.
Speaker 3:It also backs up the fact that what you talked about earlier about you know when you have a goal when you're in practice and you could get that goalie doing like 12, 15 minutes of skating drills every practice over three practices a week and how that adds up like this is your opera and I we use sense arena at the schools I work with. Every youth hockey organization I work with at least gets two um headsets and and you know, some players use it, some players don't, which is fine, but the players that that do are getting so much ROI on the investment of the tool that they don't have to go anywhere, they don't have to get dressed, they don't have to, you know, really find anywhere bigger than like a small room or an area Right Even in the ring.
Speaker 3:It's 6x6, man it just gets the reps in, and I thought it was a gimmick too.
Speaker 2:And you and I thought it was a gimmick too and I'm like well, how many different things can you do? I did too.
Speaker 2:Until I put it on, Right, they actually came to see me in this office and did a presentation and showed it to me on a computer and I was like and then a few months later they say, hey, could you come in? And this is when it was the vibe. This is before the headsets, like standalone. It was a ten thousand dollars, just so you know. Like five years ago it was ten thousand dollars to get the hardware to do sensory, but anyways, right, uh, now it's a few hundred bucks, but the minute I put that on I said this is incredible, your drills suck. I want to be a part of this, right, right, let me help you. Let me help you. I like this, so I want to be a part of this Right.
Speaker 3:Let me help you. Let me help you. I like this so much. I want to help you.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And, mike, the most important thing here is all those reps have no wear and tear on them, right? No going up and down. Now think about this too. If you're not going up and down, you're reading the release. You're reading the release. You're reading the play. You're reading the release. You're not defaulting into anything. And now that may help you hold your edges. Just that extra split, yeah, and that's going to make all the difference in the world.
Speaker 3:So I know this is our goaltending section, but on the forward side and on the player side I experienced the same thing having players that. So with a player there's a tendency to pass and come up, pass and come up, and what happens is, with the Sensorena, it doesn't allow. You're not in skates, you don't have to be in anything, but it doesn't allow you to have that. It forces you to be in the sensation of being in a position where you can get and receive passes and start to create that muscle memory so that you know I'm not doing this instinctive come up, I'm coming at. And that really changes a player. And when you can do that, especially with these young players over and over, like just catch and release, catch and release, catch and release, catch and release, not catching, dangle stick, handle, brush, do all this other stuff Brushing off and we're seeing it every day, like you see it in the NHL and how the microcosm of why teams get where they get.
Speaker 3:It's the nuance of did you pull the puck across the blue line and rip it, or did you pull across the blue line and brush and brush and then it's gone? It plays over across the blue line and brush and brush and then it's gone. It plays over and with young players outside of goaltending.
Speaker 3:And again, I know because I remember censorina when it first came out it was goaltending, that's all it was it was like this is made for goaltending well, you can't skate around, but the fact is your brain doesn't know you're not skating around. Your brain thinks I'm just looking and reading and reacting and playing, and and that's going to translate to on ice. And I know every goaltender I mean I think I have seven goaltenders that I personally work with in some capacity that all have Sensarena and they all do it in a place of their own convenience, at their own time, at their own reps, and get to get in there whenever they want. Like, if they feel like, hey, today's the day I want to put in a good 15, 20 minutes, they can do it and it literally is putting a hat on.
Speaker 2:This is the greatest line from Joey. He looks at me one day and goes I don't understand how every goalie doesn't have sensory. And this is the guy that wouldn't use it. Because it was gimmicky he wouldn't use it.
Speaker 3:And now he's like I don't understand how someone doesn't have it Right right, and especially for when I mean, like not to get too salesy, but the fact is you could get a sensorine set up for less than a goalie stick right now. So I mean, you're basically, you know, so like to me as a youth hockey parent. I'm like, holy crap, like I have to get you two goalie sticks for the for September and they're going to cost me almost $700. Well, why don't I just get?
Speaker 2:this. I say the same thing about our stop at goaltending you app is like nine 99. And like so, our typical client, our typical client, our typical goalie at Stop it Goaltending spends about $2,000 to $2,500 a year. Okay For training, for us, right, the app that has all the resources and all the knowledge and all their drills and the explanation of the drills. Like I'm leaving here, I'm going to Merrimack, we're filming all of our summer drills and we're they go on the app so you can then look at the drill before hear the explanation, then go on the ice and then that's another hit now. Now you've got the coach coaching it, you already know what's coming. So you know the drill, you know how it's going to go. Now you get there, you max for an extra nine bucks.
Speaker 3:Like.
Speaker 2:I have the same thing when it comes to the stop and go to the UAP, as Sensorena is like they're no brainers when you think about the money that goes into everything else. That's what makes it hard, and your time.
Speaker 3:And your time. I mean, you know, listen, in Massachusetts maybe you can get to a rink in 25 minutes. In a lot of places you can't get to a rink for an hour and a half and you know it's like okay, well, listen, after school, like I, just look at it the way like any. You know, after school you don't have great basketball players get great After school. They go and is shooting hoops like this is like. To me it's like one of those things where, well, why, like I, get upset in my neighborhood? I'm like I, everybody has a goddamn basketball hoop. How come nobody? I got to put a. I'm going to throw a net in every driveway. I just want to see.
Speaker 1:Well, this is what I'll say, this, this is what I've been saying for years that the biggest plight of today's youth is that they have unlimited access to information that we didn't have. And it's I don't want to say I don't like to say it to them, but it's like. It's not that they're too lazy to use it, it's they don't see it for what it's worth. And I'm going to say this one more time. On Sensarena, brian, when I went in there at first, it was jarring, just wow, okay, I've never seen this before.
Speaker 1:And then and this is just through my own process of being a hockey player and a professional in the workplace I started to critique myself in a good way of like okay, I understand, now I have to do this or I have to do that. And when you start doing the drills with the real players which is a totally amazing experience, I mean, I'm not saying I got great at goaltending or anything like that, but it's like man, I'm starting to learn, I'm starting to understand this position and again, it goes with the players as well, the skater side of it. But as a tool to just understand the position, it was worth the money to me, right, and that alone, like so look, it's a little hard to say, hey, everyone should go buy this and go play goalie, that's every skater in the world. But just trying this will give you a completely different perspective on the game and it has changed how I view the game.
Speaker 3:Well, you shouldn't be allowed to yell at your kid unless you get into the system.
Speaker 1:Well, I think Brian also had another business model. We need to make a VR game of just jobs that people do Like honey, come down, check out my construction job, get in the VR headset, let's build a building together. Adversely, hey, husband, come here, come fix this guy, I'm a nurse. I want you to you know, we could have a whole thing there.
Speaker 3:But you know you laugh, but that's, that's the key. Like when you, right now, when you you learn how to weld you welding machine, like yeah, we learn how to do operations.
Speaker 3:People are operating in a vr headset. They're operating in a virtual reality setting. So the tools there, the opportunities there, I look at it from a coaching perspective that it gets you reps, that you don't, don't get anywhere else or on your own time, on your own dime and and really for if I'm a kid they could it's just there. It's kind of sitting the corner. You just put it on when you want. Mom and dad don't have to yell at you no coaches.
Speaker 1:Kids want to do it. Yeah that's right.
Speaker 3:And if they, if they, if they venture into Fortnite, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Brian, listen, we could keep talking. I think we're going to have to have you back for a part two at some point. This time went really quick, but I want to thank you for just coming on today. You've really dropped a lot of gold. I mean, I can't wait to share the mini clips from this episode because it's really going to help a lot of people. And, again, I think we accomplished the goal of this show. While it's about goaltenders, it is not just for goaltenders, right? You've given immense perspective today across the board, for coaches, for players, for goalies and parents, which is the goal. So I want to thank you for that and for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for doing what you guys do too. It's much appreciated. I need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Thank you, sir. Well, that's going to do it for this edition of our kids play goalie. For Mike Benelli and Brian Decord. I'm Lee Elias, Remember? You can catch all of the our kids play goalie episodes and the our kids play hockey at ourkidsplayhockeycom. That's going to do it for today. Skate on, have a wonderful time. We'll see you next time on Our Kids Play Goalie. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value. Wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, ourkidsplayhockeycom. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
