Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
NHL Senior Executive VP Kim Davis on Revolutionizing Youth Hockey Inclusivity & Development
On this week's episode of “Our Kids Play Hockey,” Lee Elias and Mike Bonelli sit down with Kim Davis, the Senior Executive Vice President of Social Impact, Growth Initiatives, and Legislative Affairs for the National Hockey League.
Kim Davis is a transformative figure in hockey, working tirelessly to promote inclusivity and growth within the sport. In this episode, Kim shares her insights on the importance of youth hockey, the vital role of inclusivity, and how hockey can be a powerful tool for societal change.
Highlights:
•The Influence of Youth Hockey: Kim Davis discusses the importance of youth hockey in shaping the future of the sport and the reciprocal impact it has on adults.
•Creating Access and Inclusivity: Explore the initiatives led by Kim and the NHL to make hockey more accessible and inclusive, including the reimagining of street hockey programs.
•Building Community and Breaking Barriers: Hear about the NHL’s efforts to normalize differences, make the game more welcoming, and the importance of intentional outreach to diverse communities.
•The Role of Parents and Coaches: Learn how parents and coaches can become allies in growing the game and fostering an inclusive environment.
•Character Development: The importance of character and leadership in hockey, and how youth programs can instill these values in young players.
•The Future of Women’s Hockey: Kim shares her thoughts on the exciting growth of women’s hockey and its impact on the next generation of players.
Kim’s passion for the game and her dedication to making hockey a more inclusive and welcoming sport is truly inspiring. Whether you’re a parent, coach, player, or fan, this episode is packed with valuable insights on how we can all contribute to the growth and betterment of hockey.
Tune in and be inspired to make a difference in your hockey community!
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, powered by NHL Sense Arena. I'm Lee Elias, with Mike Benelli, and today we have an extremely special guest. She is the Senior Executive, Vice President, Social Impact, Growth Initiatives and Legislative Affairs for the National Hockey League. You might have heard of that. She's also a trailblazer in our game. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Kim Davis to the show. Kib, welcome to Our Kids Play Hot.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Speaker 1:One of the things about this show that's an honor is to get people like you on here, and we get such great guests that are impact makers in the game. So anytime we get to have a conversation and we record these on Mondays, as I've always said this is a great way to start the week, I would say that it is.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Kim, you've mentioned many times that youth hockey is your favorite aspect of the job. We are that audience. What is it about the youth journey that you love so much?
Speaker 2:audience. What is it about the youth journey that you love so much? Well, I think what's important about the youth journey is that you have a opportunity to influence young people early, and what ends up happening is that we as adults are more influenced than I think the influence we have on them. I learn every day from being part of the experience with young people, starting with my two young grandchildren. I have two grandsons and I think it keeps us youthful. It keeps us reimagining the future, and that's why I love going to rinks and going into our various markets and spending time with our youth programs, because I come away feeling better about the future of our game, but also feeling like we're going to leave our game in good hands with the next generation of fans and fans and waiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, one of the things I've always noticed about talking with people, either with NHL clubs or NHL teams, is this clear devotion to the game beyond the NHL right, there's just a clear understanding at the league that to develop the NHL, we must develop the game. We must understand the game at all levels. Can you speak about, maybe, the people that you work with or the people that you have surrounded yourself with, and how that is part of this initiative and why that's so important to not just the growth of the NHL but hockey in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been so fortunate in joining the NHL almost seven years ago it'll be seven years in December that I acquired a team of people that were so committed to the future of the game, but also I've been able to hire people over the six and a half years that I've been there, that some of whom didn't have any background in hockey but they were so committed to the future growth of a sport like hockey, because it is really an example of how our society can be better.
Speaker 2:And so for me, it's surrounding yourself with people who are thinking outside of the box, always imagining and reimagining the ways that we can engage youth. You know the reimagining, for example, of our street hockey program over the past couple of years. I mean, street hockey has been played forever, right? You talk to a lot of our professional players and they will tell you that they were playing street hockey before they got on the ice, and so street hockey isn't a new concept. But the idea of connecting street hockey for those kids who don't have exposure to hockey, those that don't have access to infrastructure, to those that are thinking about the intersection of food and fashion and entertainment and sport together, those are the exciting ideas that make me feel like the future is bright for our sport because of the ways in which we can reimagine it through the eyes of the youth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that there's been a clear movement in hockey in recent years across the USA and Canada by the league and other governing bodies to make the game more available, more inclusive for everyone, right, and I believe that most families, especially the ones that we speak to that are involved in the game, really support this, but they're not always sure how to be an ally, right, and we have these conversations all the time with people that listen to the show. I want to do more, but I'm not sure what I can do, what I should do, what's the right thing to say, what's the wrong thing to say, how can the parents and the coaches and the organizations listening to this broadcast, become an ally in growing the game in the way that we're talking about, because hockey is such a almost a 24-7 sport.
Speaker 2:I mean you know you and I were just talking about this Families who are involved in hockey spend more time at the rink sometimes than they do sleeping. I mean the commitment is overwhelming. You know ice time at 430 in the morning. You know playing before kids go to school, playing after school. So because of that, families become so connected to each other and it becomes very tribal in a very positive way. Connected to each other and it becomes very tribal in a very positive way. People, the relationships and the camaraderie that is built is very tribal, is very, very connected.
Speaker 2:I think when people come into the sport and they are new to the sport, they aren't quite sure how to break into that family.
Speaker 2:Hockey is definitely a family and I, when I first joined, I used to analogize it to you know, you're inside looking through these glass windows and you see all this great stuff going on and you want to be part of it, but you don't know how to actually get in and be part of it. What I think people can do, families can do, is to be very intentional about welcoming those that aren't part of that historical family. You know people aren't are not not being friendly, it's just that they aren't intentionally reaching out, and I think that that's what I hear. A lot of families that are new to the sport, that are just getting their kids involved, they feel like I don't know how to break into that tribe Right. So being intentional about that, I think, is one of the ways in which people that are involved in the sport, families that are involved in the sport can help other families feel like they're part of the family of hockey.
Speaker 1:I'm going to throw it to Mike here in a second, but I want to say this real quick, because my son and daughter, who obviously are in the hockey world, we just got done our first seasons of baseball and softball and to go to a baseball game or a softball game and I sat there and watched the game. I said so we're just supposed to sit here and just watch this game, like there's nothing else that I need to do. There's nothing else I need to do. And then the game is it's a different pace. I'm not going to say it's a slower pace, it's just a different pace. And I started to realize, kim, that wow, hockey's intense. I mean, I knew that. I've been in it my whole life. This is not as intense as the hockey games are. And then it put that perspective of my mind, in my mind of man. If these parents were to see the youth hockey world, they would be shocked at what we do.
Speaker 1:I mean, the games are at 6 pm. You get a little snack. You go, sit in the stands and enjoy a baseball game and hockey. It's get out of bed, let's go. We got to get to the rink. But Mike Benelli coaches a lot of other sports besides hockey, right, he's a. But uh, mike benelli, uh, coaches a lot of other sports besides hockey, right, he's bigger than lacrosse and a lot of other things. Mike, I want to throw it to you because you probably have more perspective on this than I do yeah, no, I'm just listening to kim and it's funny, kim.
Speaker 3:Right, we talk about, like you know, and I'm a big believer in this, that the hockey is a family. It's the. It's one of the only sports that you're in a locker room getting dressed with people. It's it's uh, you know, I think even even economically, there's always been barriers up until you know your tenure and a lot of stuff the nhl has done I mean, I laugh, or you know, everything we do is, uh, anti-ethical of what we want to do as far as growing families, because our families are always split up, so it's always like, well, family sport, but I haven't seen my family in seven months, so it's like a, you know, don't have dinners together.
Speaker 3:So one of the things I love about what you've done in the NHL have done and I get to work with like 43 Oak and ice hockey in Harlem and I was just up with Brian Trache up in Saskatoon doing an outreach program and everything that they are doing revolves around the NHL's initiatives and obviously led by you in in access, and maybe you could talk a little bit about why is that access so important to bring these families, you know, into the sport of ice hockey, because when I grew up it went and it obviously it's it's a long way for where it needs to be.
Speaker 3:It wasn't diverse. I mean, my father in our program started the first girls hockey program, yeah, and it was like, and it was like unheard of. It was like, oh yeah, the girls they kind of play until they really don't. You know there's not that interesting anymore for them or it just wasn't like as an intent. So but what you've done with the street hockey and the ball hockey and like all these other, I love like the like, like even that urban look and going out and reaching the customer instead of waiting for them to come to you and us as hockey people. Maybe talk a little bit about how important those initiatives are. You know, in these different communities with the NHL.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that setup, because one of the things that we have tried to get the league to understand and the entire hockey spine. You know, I often talk about the entire spine because hockey, in my opinion, unlike any other sport, the influence is felt from youth all the way up to the ultimate gold standard, which is the NHL and everything in between. And that's why a lot of the initiatives that we focus on, like building culture and, you know, creating ways that people can report bad behavior, has to influence the entire spine, because everything is connected to everything else, which is what the commissioner says all the time. And so this idea of access is to normalize differences and so people can feel comfortable understanding that we all bring something different. And making our sport culturally available to everyone allows people to be able to be themselves and to do their best and to then feel comfortable being in our sport as fans, as participants, as players, as employees, all of the ways in which we want people to feel engaged, because, at our core, that family feeling is really what hockey is all about. So access for us is making everybody understand that.
Speaker 2:You know, when I see people that look like myself in the sport of hockey. It makes me comfortable, right, not because I'm uncomfortable with people that don't look like me, but because we all feel comfortable when we see ourselves with people that don't look like me, but because we all feel comfortable when we see ourselves. Men feel comfortable when they see other men, so why shouldn't women feel comfortable when they see other women? People of color feel comfortable when they see themselves. So, again, it's not a yes or no, it's a yes. Yes, and that's what access is about. It's about normalizing differences and it's about making everybody understand that we are all better when we feel comfortable and confident and being able to bring our full selves to anything, and that's no different in our sport.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been really uncomfortable with that. I mean, I was just up in you know, a First Nations community and it was so funny how, like I'm around Brian Trocci and Rich Pilon and all these NHL guys and like, oh, this is the white guy from New York.
Speaker 3:I'm like I said, I don't even know what that's, even like you're making me feel uncomfortable. It was. It was the access of hockey brought that commonality together and you know we've had Booneeves on and we've had Bryce Salvadorce, salvador on, we've had a lot of other you know really great people in our sport that, uh, would echo the same thing like I. You know I want to be involved because I want more people that look like me playing, um, even even the women from the pwhl on, like all those kind of things. But it's funny because I think, and and again, I and I think I brought this up with boo, I'm I, maybe I'm an outsider on this, but because of hockey and because a team sport is a team, I never felt a lot of those barriers, like I've been in the room with very diverse rooms, I've coached very diverse teams, but I never felt like in that room like, well, now we're all a family, ever felt like in that room like, well, now we're all a family, like we're all, we're all participating together.
Speaker 3:I've done ball hockey clinics in, you know, the South Bronx where when, the, when they start playing hockey, they're playing hockey, and and and and. Color has meant nothing, you know to, to the kids in that moment and and and I think that's what's so great about these initiatives and these outreach programs, is that that's the commonality, is the fact that when you put a stick in a kid's hand and they're battling for a puck or a ball or whatever they're battling, they don't care. There's not that the racial piece and the inequity piece kind of disappears a little bit for that, just for that moment in time, so that we could all remember, kind of, why you're in, that you know.
Speaker 2:In that event, and this is what we have to remind parents of is that what we're teaching our kids is to normalize difference in a way that allows them to just focus on the game and the sportsmanship of the game and the team elements of the game and the sportsmanship of the game and the team elements of the game, and often it's the parents that get in the way of that right.
Speaker 2:And so our parents have to stop and sort of ask themselves am I bringing my historical bias to this and not allowing our children to just do what they love? Children to just do what they love, and that is play hockey. It doesn't matter who's there, and if we normalize this, if we continue to think about normalization as a way of creating a welcoming and an environment where everybody belongs, everybody's going to perform at their highest levels and ultimately that's what we want right At the end of the day in our sport, from youth all the way up. We want more people to love our sport, more people to see the value of our sport in terms of teaching life lessons and ultimately to become fans of our sports which help to grow our sport. Those are the things that count At the end of the day. That's what matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree 100%. I'll say too that the more perspective we can give everyone within that youth hockey environment, the better, and that's one of the things that I've seen change over the last few years, as well as and I've been fortunate enough to travel with Mike up to some of the First Nation communities and also to work with some minority hockey teams, and, as a white man, the perspective you start to realize when you're with these groups is what you said earlier, kim is that they don't normally see people that maybe look like them in hockey. And then that brought me to the point that I always like to say is that sometimes you have to understand. You're not going to understand someone else's perspective, and that's okay. You can walk beside them, you can be an ally. To go back to what I said earlier in the episode, but I remember coaching a team and the young man said to me I feel like I can let my hair down here now. I feel like I'm in a comfortable position and I started asking myself wow, have I done anything to make this uncomfortable for you in the past? But those conversations, which I would say are uncomfortable for a lot of people, those uncomfortable conversations, are how we push the gamut forward and, as Mike said, once the puck drops it doesn't matter. We're all on the same team. But that's something I've seen from an inclusivity point.
Speaker 1:Over the last few years it's really changed and again, the kids for the most part are impervious to it, which is also wonderful, right and they grow up seeing these things. I've said it my daughter and my son now live in a world where professional women's hockey is a reality. It is never going to be different. They see you in your position. That is a reality for them and it makes me proud to be involved in the game a lot of the time when I can say look at this, watch this. That could be your future if you choose right. There's no pressure, kim. One thing I did want to ask you this is more of a fandom question for the audience In any sport the need for change, the want for change. Fans typically want that to be an immediate thing, right? No matter what it?
Speaker 1:is all right, you know, for traditionalism sake sometimes they don't. But most fans like why aren't you changing this faster? I was wondering if you could give us some perspective. Like with any large organization, decisions and movement take time. I'd love your insight into maybe some of the decision making process at the NHL level and why maybe some choices happen faster than others and how you adapt to change in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is. This is such an important conversation to have and for us to be able to talk authentically about all of these issues, and so I just want to say I appreciate you guys having this forum, because somebody is going to learn something that you may not agree with everything we talk about, but somebody is going to hear something that's going to be life changing, so I appreciate that, thank you.
Speaker 2:It's my 35 plus years in the world of work that has helped me understand how to, and most of it has come from the things that I've not done right. I've learned my greatest lessons from the mistakes that I've made, and this is an area where I've learned a lot. How do you bring people along in a decision-making process so that they actually feel buy-in? They don't feel like they're being forced because of a policy. They don't feel like they're being forced because the organization is mandating something? People are going to be much greater partners allies, you know involved in using their power for good when they buy into the rationale behind something. And that takes time, and what organizations typically don't want to do is to spend the time bringing people along so that they finally have that aha moment when they say I understand. And typically that happens because they are able to relate somehow to what you're trying to do, to an experience that they've had. That's what we call empathy. Right, I may not have had the exact experience, but something has happened in my life that I can relate to how somebody feels in that moment, and now I can empathize with their situation because I know that I've had a similar situation not the same, but something similar happened to me.
Speaker 2:It takes all of that to get an executive team to a place where there is real, authentic, genuine buy-in and then you can move forward and people think, like you said, you decide you're going to do something and you bring everybody along and you force people to do it and, yeah, that might work for a while, but it's not sustainable.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have sustainable impact and we're looking for long-term change. That's why you hear me talk about this as a movement, not a moment. There are a lot of moments that happen that are important in a movement, but ultimately, a movement is a long game. A movement is something that you're going to have some setbacks and you're going to have some steps forward, but all of it ultimately results in what we are all trying to achieve and that is to make our sport the best, most inclusive sport in the world. And we can do that, we have the ability to do that, we got all the right ingredients and it's going to result in more kids playing our sport, more fans, fans being part of our sport, growing our sport. So yeah, you know, making the sausage is about looking at the long game and not thinking about the transactions along the journey.
Speaker 3:I was hoping we might be able to talk just a little bit about. I mean, because obviously you know, as Lee mentioned, we talked to a lot of parents and a lot of kids on this show, but we also have a lot of administrators and managers. And you know, as Lee mentioned, we talked to a lot of parents and a lot of kids on this show, but we also have a lot of administrators and managers and you know people that run these youth hockey organizations that listen to us, and I found that I know in my outreach and I think you know I would love your perspective on this and kind of how to make the sausage let's go back to the factory for a minute I find that when I do outreach programs, when we take our teams to ice hockey in Harlem, when we travel to South Norwalk, connecticut, and do a program in a gym, our families, our kids, our families, get just as much out of that experience as the kids that are in the experience. I mean one of the things we've done and we talked about this on the show, lee, I think one of the episodes about you know how do you bring inclusion into your organization, and that's to just do it Invite inclusion into your organization. You know you can give up that one Thursday night 7.30 PM practice and provide an opportunity to do a joint program.
Speaker 3:But, kim, maybe you could talk about from an NHL perspective and what we can do as managers and coaches and administrators in our youth hockey organizations in our NHL cities. What can we do to bring in more inclusion? What could we do to make hockey more welcoming? That maybe isn't. I don't have to do a fundraiser, I don't have to do a bake sale. What can I do to make this work, very minimally from my end, that the NHL can offer us to help, you know, facilitate this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so much of what you are describing is what I refer to as myth busting. We all have biases and preconceived notions about different things, based on what we see in the media, based on our own upbringing, and that doesn't make us bad. It's just the reality of how the world operates. But if we stay open to the possibility of learning something new and this is what you're talking about, mike, the ways in which you do that is to create an opportunity to go into the communities and not expect the communities to come to us. I think one of the biggest aha moments for a number of our clubs when I first joined was in a select number of cities. We did some some listen and learn sessions with community leaders, and most of our clubs would have said they know their communities, we've been in these communities forever. They what. What they should have been saying was we know certain parts of our communities right, and with demographics shifting and changing in so many of the cities where we operate and where our sport is played, it means we have to open ourselves up to new relationships and building new networks, and so one of the first things we should be doing is not just saying we're hockey and we're open for business, come be part of us. We have to go into those communities and build authentic relationships and build trust with community leaders so that they trust that their kids are gonna be safe and that their kids are gonna to be safe and that their kids are going to be welcomed in our sport, and that is. There's no greater way for people to believe that than when we go to them, as opposed to expecting them to come to us. So, you know, it's very easy for people to get a sense of whether or not someone's authentic, even though we may not know everything.
Speaker 2:It was like me doing sign language this weekend as part of the broadcast. I was so nervous, I did not want to do. I did not want to sign on national television, I didn't want to mess up. I didn't want the community to think that I was trying to do something that I wasn't comfortable with. But I had to have the courage to try, and what Bryce said to me was people are going to see and they will feel your energy of knowing that you are doing your best to try, and that's what counts. And so that's what we have to do in these communities is we have to avail ourselves to the community and not expect the community to avail themselves to us.
Speaker 1:That is fantastic advice, and I'll say this too as someone who has been with Mike on trips. As I said earlier, the most rewarding events in my hockey life was when I was able to do what you just described, right, to see it from a different perspective, or like again going up to Northwest British Columbia to work with First Nation people and again, once you're there, you're in it and to the authenticity point. I think this is where a lot of people get held up. There's a fear of I don't want to come across the wrong way, I don't want to be taken with the best intentions taken the wrong way.
Speaker 1:And the truth is this people can tell when you're being authentic. Right, there's a they know. Right, if there's a hidden motive, they'll figure that out. But most of the time, kim, when I've made a true effort and it's obvious I want to be here, I want to, I want to play hockey with you. There's no question. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Right, it's open arms, like come on in, like we, you know. So that maybe is part of the stigma that needs to be broken For the, for those of you listening right, if you are authentically trying to be involved, whatever that means, people will know people will tell you.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right and don't be afraid to try.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And again I tell you, I had to take that lesson myself this weekend with, you know, asl and being asked to sign. I was so uncomfortable and you know I said you have to take a bit of your own advice. Kim, get comfortable with being uncomfortable, right?
Speaker 1:That's one of the reasons you're so successful. You know, I think I think people in your position, Kim, they run towards things that scare them. Not that I'm not trying to say that you're scared, I'm just saying that it's uncomfortable. You kind of run that direct because you can learn something right. Yeah, I do want to applaud you in the league for doing that.
Speaker 1:I think it's being celebrated um pretty heavily that the NHL is the first league to have done that. And again it seems authentic, right? I don't know anyone said, well, that's just stupid, they're just doing that?
Speaker 3:like who are they?
Speaker 1:what do you mean? They're trying to appease me. This is awesome, uh. And the NHL has always seemed to be at the forefront of that in recent years, right Since your leadership excuse me under your leadership of pushing and trying and seeing. And I always tell people you cannot fault the league for a lack of trying things right. This league really does care. So anyway, I want to applaud you on that and again just reiterate the fact that you're going to feel a little uncomfortable whenever you're stepping outside the norms in hockey, but that's okay. As long as you're taking a step forward in an authentic way, you're going to find a place that you want to be. And again, mike, you've championed that so many times. I mean you travel all over the place. I'll just say putting sticks in kids' hands to play the game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it is a really. I mean, I think that's Kim's point, right Is you have to get in there and you have to be authentic. I mean, I went to Puerto Rico and worked with a bunch of soccer kids and with the Panthers and all of a sudden they're playing hockey and they went home saying they play hockey. You know, they said I went home play hockey. They didn't say I played street hockey. They didn't say I played road hockey. They played hockey and I think it hockey program with the Rangers recently.
Speaker 3:And you know he was, you know, to Kim's point. He was really nervous and like oh, I don't know how to work with them. How do you, how do you talk with them? Like I'm not disabled myself. And then he got into a sled. He saw how hard it was really. He would really put into a situation. I mean I remember Tommy laid law coming out and the same thing, like putting himself in the sled, really just showing like oh my God, this is embarrassing, this is hard. These people are true athletes and they are doing things that I can't do.
Speaker 3:But guess what? They started helping, they started teaching, they started training and all of a sudden it opens up a whole nother conversation about you know who are you and what do you like to do, and how'd you get involved with hockey? And then the uncomfortable stuff how'd you get injured with hockey, and how. And then then the uncomfortable stuff how'd you get injured? What? Yes, yes, can I help? How can I be involved? Or we don't get enough ice time. Well, how can I help you get more ice time?
Speaker 3:Like these are things, unless you just stay in your little like at the at the marriott hotel on a weekend in boston for every single weekend of the tournament and you don't get out of your comfort zone and you don't say you know what, on this weekend our organization is hosting, you know, the Ed Schneider Foundation and they're going to skate every day with us. Like that to me is real change, and I think what I've seen your organization do and your side I mean they still haven't figured out how to change the goalie interference rule, but I know that's not in your, I know it's not your, your, your part, and we'll work on that over the summer, but I think the other stuff is like real tangible things where I could reach out to the NHL and say I want to do this, and then Kim Davis's organization can say contact this person, they can help you do that.
Speaker 3:That's the initiative we want and that's the access we need. But a lot of it has to come from us. We're the ones with the ice time, we're the ones with the rink, we're the ones that can open up those doors. But if you want to be just, it's us, it's me, I only care about what I do, and then we're all we're just not rowing in the same direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is again why this podcast is so important, because these are the real conversations that we need to have, and it will open people's minds and their hearts, and we need both right. We need hearts open, we need minds open, um, people that have power and privilege in our sport, um to be thinking about this. This is how our game and our sport is going to grow. That's. The other thing we have to think about is that this is not trying to take a small pie and cut it into smaller pieces where somebody gets left out. We're talking about making the pie bigger. The pie can be enormous and everybody can still have their fair share and we all grow together. So we have to shift people's mindsets from thinking oh my God, if I allow this group or this particular segment to be part of the game, that means I'm going to have less. No, it means we all get more Right.
Speaker 2:And that's the mindset shift that we all have to be about.
Speaker 1:You know, kim, one of the things I love I mentioned this in the pre-show. I'm really blessed to work with the Puerto Rican Ice Hockey Association and you know I wear those sweaters with pride and every time we'll get this. They have hockey in Puerto Rico, puerto Ricans can play hockey. And I said, let me tell you this, it's going to be some of the highest level hockey you've ever seen in your life, as if we've got NCAA division one players. We have OHL players, we have draft picks, we have NHL players.
Speaker 1:Boone Nieves was an NHL player and I said, you know, this might actually have been the highest level I've coached, when I think about it at some points. And I invited him out to a game. I said we're doing this great event. It's like a party come out and watch a game event. It's like a party come out and watch a game. And you know, we just played Jamaica. And again, same thing. Jamaica has a hockey team. I said this will be outside the league, the best hockey game you've ever seen. And I said, you know, puerto Rico, jamaica, maybe, maybe not the rivalries you think of in hockey, but but it's there. And then we had Lebanon there as well and it's a celebration was called the Fiesta dayockey for a reason. We are celebrating the game and those events. To just go to an event like that, what's funny is it tends to be Puerto Rico, lebanon and Jamaica that are the welcoming. Come on in. Come on in and enjoy the game Right.
Speaker 1:Like we want to be part of this with you and you can't help but have fun there. I do want to turn the questioning a little bit towards towards women's hockey here for a second, because something is changing. Something is changing in our society, especially this, this last, let's say, 18 months, in all of women's sports it's not even just hockey, obviously. Caitlin Clark and the WNBA and the NCAA has been a wonderful kind of awakening in sport. I love that we're talking about it on a daily basis, but professional women's hockey has really come to the forefront here.
Speaker 1:All of us on this show are so happy to see arenas packed people talking about it. You know there's an unfortunate stigma in hockey, though, that the game has never been multicultural and inclusive for women, but the history of our game shows that's actually not true, with the knowledge of black leagues and women's hockey players going back to the 1800s. So the stereotypes are starting to break right. I feel like the glass ceiling is shattering, right. What can we do now to blast through it? And again, I'm talking to every parent right now, not just of daughters, but sons too, because it's important that we all see this.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, you start with the facts, and you and you aptly talked about it. Often, this myth busting that I talked about is the place we have to begin, because people have these preconceived notions or this ignorance, and all ignorance means is lack of knowledge. It's not a negative word. Ignorance means I'm not knowing right.
Speaker 2:We don't know our history and that is an opportunity. So, as you said, women's hockey goes back to Ottawa in the 1800s. First article about that, of course, the Colored Hockey League 1895, even before the NHL. So, starting with people busting this myth that it's not for women, it's not for people of color, it's not for ethnic groups, it's not for the disabled, all of these things, we have to bust that myth number one. Secondly, we have to educate people on where growth is going to come from in the future if our sport is not just going to survive but thrive. We have to think about that. Girls hockey is growing almost four times participation than boys hockey. Women are taking a rightful place in the sport.
Speaker 2:One of the things I was worried about five years ago was we got this huge demand for girls playing hockey and we don't have an outlet for those that want to play it professionally. Now we do with the PWHL, and that is so exciting because if you look at women that are playing hockey in college and the number of even girls of color that are captains of division one and division three schools, it's extraordinary, and so for them to have an outlet and an opportunity to play professionally. This is inspiring for the next generation of girls coming behind them. So, yeah, we have to educate, we have to amplify, we have to influence and we have to have greater impact with all these communities, and we've talked about the impact part going to the communities.
Speaker 2:Now I so love you talking about the Puerto Rican and Jamaica rivalry, because this weekend I got text is from my, my personal trainer, who is Jamaican, who was playing at the tournament, mariah, and so he's sending me these pictures and showing me what's going on and he tells me that the, the guy that was doing their social media, was a young man, umar, that was a summer intern with my group last summer and now he is, because of that experience, he has immersed himself in every aspect of the sport beyond the NHL. So those relationships matter, they count. The connective tissue of all of this coming full circle, getting people, creating more stickiness in our sport, is really what it's all about and we just have to keep talking about it. You guys amplifying it on your channels, talking about women's hockey, bringing successful women, both who play and from the front office. All of this matters and it counts, and it's the intentional piece that we spoke about earlier being intentional.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. And I'm going to reiterate again with, with, especially women's hockey. You know, back in 1998, I'll just say I was younger and I remember watching team USA take on Canada women's hockey winning the gold medal, and I had never seen that before. But I w. I was at an age where I was like this is awesome's hockey winning the gold medal, and I had never seen that before. But I was at an age where I was like this is awesome, usa just won the gold medal. That's what I remember thinking. Yes, Cammy Granato was a hero to me, right. And as I grew older I started to see how much of an influence that had on women's hockey and how so many girls got into the game at that point. And then I was, you know, blessed with two children, son and a daughter. And now my daughter is seeing again. We have a national women's team in Puerto Rico too, but she sees that she sees the PWHL. The head coach of her elementary school team is a woman. This is now normal for her.
Speaker 2:That's it. Normalizing, that's it.
Speaker 1:And again, not everybody grows up in the game with that perspective and I think that sometimes you got to take your step outside your own mind and, like when I see it through the eyes of my daughter, she'll never know a world where that's not the reality. But that wasn't true just 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Right and then before, yeah, and before 1998, I would never have seen anything like that was the first time women's women played in the Olympics. It's kind of kind of rounding all of this out. It takes time. There's a macro view you have to have on things right, but as long as we're pushing forward and sometimes it might feel like a step back is being taken, but as long as you keep moving forward. That's how we grow this. But we all play a role in this. Yes, we do. And if you're someone at home listening to this saying I want to do more, you can do more. You can step up and do more. Right, you don't have to wait, as you said, you don't have to wait for it to come to you. In fact, we can't even play the game that way. You don't wait for the puck to come to you in the game. You got to go get the puck right.
Speaker 2:So we're already trained that way.
Speaker 1:But I'm going to reiterate what I said, kim the most rewarding aspects of this game and I have been so blessed in this game to be around it my whole life. I make a living on it. I never take that for granted. But the greatest part of it are these experiences that we're talking about, because you get to be part of it. It's not even so much about leading it, it's you get to be part of it. It's not even so much about leading it, you get to be part of it. And that leaves a really good feeling inside when you know that someone is loving the game with you and it doesn't matter where, thinking about you know what small nuggets can we share with the?
Speaker 2:there's a new family there and they seem to be isolated go over and give them a welcoming handshake and ask them is there anything that you can do to make them feel more comfortable on the team? That will go a long way and that doesn't cost anything. Right? If you see somebody who is looking like they are in distress, have the courage to ask the question and have the courage to stand up. If somebody is uncomfortable with something on your youth team, you know, use it as an opportunity to as a teachable moment with your kids when you're driving home, so that they understand the realities of the world, but they also understand their role as individuals in the world to make the world better. Those are the little things that don't you know, that don't cost anything, that are part of the normal fabric of how all of us can operate to make our humanity and our society better.
Speaker 3:Well, I just did two roundtable discussions last weekend, with Megan Bozak in one and Brian Mullen on another. Two separate interviews, two separate groups of people, two separate rooms, at different times, and they both said the exact same thing. Not only about diversity, inclusion, access, welcoming, just be a good person If you want to be on a hockey team, be a good human being. How good you are and your skill level and all that kind of stuff is great and it's very obviously important at the higher levels of the sport, but being a good person is the most important thing and we've talked about this I don't know how many times. Countless times on our show is about the fact that it doesn't matter how good you are. There's everybody's going to be good at 18 and 19 and 20 years old, everyone that you play with, if you make it to that level, is going to be a very, very good hockey player. That's right.
Speaker 3:Be a really good person and if you're an administrator in the youth hockey world, you need more good people in your locker room, you need families in your locker room. And the only way to do that I think to your point, kim is be, you know, influential in doing that and be, you know, active in doing that, that be conscious of the fact that you might have to inject that positivity and goodness and inclusion, because the rest good people will pick up on it. But it's so hard to do it and it's free to do and it's free.
Speaker 3:Get more kids in your locker room, get more kids in your rink, get more families that love this sport. I mean, the one thing that binds everyone's and bonds that all of us is the love of a sport that is very difficult to play and afford and find time for but, amazingly, the more people we get into it. I mean I was, I said this all the time with try hockey for free events. Once you get people in the door and getting playing, that's it they're hot, oh my god, that's what I say, that all the time.
Speaker 3:And unfortunately, it's terrible for most of us. That's like what do you mean? I gotta do this now for the next 18 years. I think it's one of those things where you can rely on people like you, the NHL, your local NHL clubs, to make sure they can help facilitate these types of things and be really active and look and see the initiatives that are out there and go out and take advantage of them. I can't, I can't tell you how many times I've worked with youth organizations that didn't even know to do this, like didn't even know to look out and say what it's a girls hockey event in montclair, new jersey, and yes, see what I could do that. Or or the vegas golden knights are doing a huge girls hockey and inclusion event. Well, I didn't even know. Go out and find it, and it's your responsibility as an administrator in these programs to go out and find those things.
Speaker 2:But, mike, you just said something I think we have to amplify, and that is 99.9% of the time. It's just a case of people just not thinking about it and not knowing and not being intentional. Right, it's not any kind of bad will or any kind of bad intention, it's just like oh, I hadn't thought about that. And that's why these shows and these conversations are so important, because somebody's going to say, wow, you know, I can, I can do that. That's easy to do. And the thing about it is, when people get exposed like you're both saying to our sport, they fall in love with it immediately. And so we just want more people to fall in love with the sport. We always talk about those that love our sport and those that want to love our sport. We want more people to love the sport and that is myth busting so that they know that there is a place in the sport for them and that they can belong. And you know, if we do that and we're all good people the rest will happen.
Speaker 1:So, kim, here's some cool things. That what you're saying. One thing I do want to shout out Mike, you mentioned this. So so, jamaica, on the back of their pants. Every player has a patch on the back of their pants it says be a good human, every their pants. Every player has a patch on the back of their pants it says be a good human, every one of them, which I thought was the coolest thing ever. But to your point, mike, this is something that I have found. Kim, you too, with youth organizations, look for everybody listening. We're all working. If you're involved in youth hockey, it's a job. Right, it's a grind. You're doing a lot, especially if you're volunteering.
Speaker 1:I've been fortunate to be able to bring things to my youth organizations. In terms of what you're talking about, mike, if we should look for this, we should expand upon this, we should look at team building, we should look at these things. Never once, never once, have I brought that conversation to a youth hockey organization and they went no, we don't want more inclusion, we don't want more team. Nobody has ever fought it ever. Now, what they have kind of fought is well, how much is this going to take time? Who's going to do it? What are the ways to bring it to the forefront? But no one's ever shut it down right? So, again, for the audience listening, you can bring this to your organization. Now they are going to ask you to take charge and you need to be ready for that. There's nothing wrong with that, okay, but I've never been involved with an organization and said, hey, we should look around the area for this and for the organizational leaders. You should absolutely be building it into your month or week. However, you want to have a thought or a conversation about this and bring people into the room and have conversations of just checking the pulse of your area and are we doing things that we need to do? Are we doing everything that we need to do?
Speaker 1:I also think, kim and this is I'm going to segue this into a question too we have said almost every episode Great people become great players. Right, I have been privileged, and so has Mike and so have you, to have been around a lot of NHL players. Ninety, nine, point nine percent of the professional athletes I have worked with in hockey are unbelievable people, the highest of character. Their skill is matched by their character. Actually, many times, their character is beyond their skill, and these are the most skilled athletes in the world. You spend a lot of time with the NHL athletes, right?
Speaker 1:Part of the development process for any youth organization should be focused on. Are we helping these kids become better people? Yes, right, I don't think we do enough with that, although I do think that there is a realization happening now of, with anti-bullying inclusion all of the words we use that, hey, we need to help develop these kids into becoming the best versions of themselves. So, again, kind of a two-part question. Here I'm going multiple directions. I'd love your perspective of working with NHL athletes and professional athletes and their character, and I'd also love your thoughts on can we build this into our youth hockey organizations and how important is it? Because look, at the end of the day, there's always a lot of FOMO from families. I want my kid to go as far as possible. This is part of that. Yes, right, so you deal with those athletes. They've clearly gotten that at home. Should we be putting this in our youth organizations?
Speaker 2:Well, to your first question about the character and the humanizing our professional athletes. This year we took the King Clancy Award to a new level of importance and it really is exactly to the point that you are making Humans over highlights. How do you really showcase the character of these players, the leadership of these players, so that our young people understand exactly what you're saying is that to be a good person and to be of high character is as important as the skill is, more important, in fact, than the skills that you bring, because at some point your life is going to go beyond the ice and the question then becomes who am I as a human being, who am I as a member of society? And if we teach that early enough, it will be important. And if our young people see those players in action, it will be important. And if our young people see those players in action, um, to elevate the King Clancy award to, you know, comparable to the NFL's man of the year, is our goal and aspiration, so that that becomes an award that is as important as, you know, the, the, the, the awards that focus on their aptitude on the ice. So, and the stories that have come out, and I know you guys have seen them this year are just phenomenal and hopefully will continue to be shared up and down the hockey spine. So that's number one.
Speaker 2:Number two yes, this idea of getting our youth programs to understand the importance of, of teaching our our kids the importance of character and bringing that to the locker room is something that we talked about four years ago when we put together a number of committees after 2021, and one of the committees was the youth inclusion Committee, made up of parents and coaches and USA Hockey and Hockey Canada, and the recommendations that came out of that committee were to create training programs for youth hockey kids to understand and to hear from professional players what is important from a character building point of view, and we still think that that's important.
Speaker 2:It hasn't happened yet. It's in the hands of USA Hockey and Hockey Canada. We've tested a number of these programs at the affiliate level with great success. It's opened up minds and hearts. But we think it should be part of a standardized approach to the locker room at the youth level, because we're doing at the professional levels now and so the youth level should be accustomed to knowing that so by the time they get to professional levels, even if they play college hockey, they will have experienced this all along that journey. So we completely agree Please continue to push that in the spaces that you guys have influence and operate in, and we will get there.
Speaker 1:Well, look, I love hearing that that's an initiative that's that's growing. I will say it's in the it's in the sausage form in the factory. It's starting to come down. But, and the other thing too, is that you know, one of the things that drives me is the ability to change the quote, unquote ROI for parents of making it. Not making it to college or the pros, which is insanely hard to do, but the ROI is the life skills that your children are learning in youth hockey and the game. I would say this and I'm biased, but hockey lends itself more than any other sport to fast track, teaching you life skills. The entire game is built that way, it is played that way. It is all about capitalizing on the mistakes you make and someone else's make and understanding how to deal with adversity and move forward and find a way to work together. I could go all day on this and I think that it's built into the game. Already we talk about free right. It's built into the game. But it's all about the messages that you give to those kids after the game. We talked about this one before it came of.
Speaker 1:After the game, the car ride home. Maybe you should or not be coaching your kid in the car. When something goes wrong, what are you saying to your kid? Are you making them accountable or are you blaming someone else? That kid should have passed you. You could have scored there instead of. Well, he didn't pass to you, so she didn't pass to you. What are you going to do about that now? How can we solve this problem? That, to me, is one of the things, and then the other thing too is the amount of times I've had, you know, might or Adam parents talk to me about division one college. It's a little scary.
Speaker 3:Well, what I love about what Kim's talking about with hockey, canada and USA hockey and NHL's collaboration, is that the piece that that their initiative, that this initiative focuses on. You know, when people ask, like you mentioned ROI, like it very much could determine whether you do advance, I tell you one thing you won't advance if you don't have those pieces, like if you're just a bad person and a bad human being and you can't be a good teammate and forget about hockey, right, I mean all those, all those life lessons, but ultimately, like, if you're a kid in the car right now and you're listening to this, you're like well, I want, I want to be a pro hockey player. I don't want to be an accountant and a stockbroker and a plumber, and you know I don't want to do that. I don't want to work for the nhl, I want to be, I want to be in the nhl. Okay, well, the number one thing you could do is be a great person. Right, that's one thing you can do. So, yes, you can be a great and we've said this a million times you'll be a great, great hockey player. There's so many good hockey players, kim. You've seen it time and time and time again. Right. You're in the office like how did that person not play in the NHL? Oh, did you hear? This is, this is who they are. Oh, okay, makes sense.
Speaker 3:Like and now, as much as we want to push players to perform at the highest levels, we need to give them the ability because, let's face it, maybe they're not getting this at home, but the peer pressure in the locker room and the inclusion of this in your organization helps all of us lift this boat. It gives us all. If I'm a hockey coach, it gives me an easy out that I'm not the bad guy. Oh, it's the governing body, it's the NHL, the leaders, it's all of these people that we follow. It's the same reason why, when we do a lesson plan for hockey, we say it's a USA hockey, that's right, a lot of weight. And the same thing for this locker room behavior, ethics, inclusion. It covers a lot of weight when it's run by the governing body and the governing body values it.
Speaker 2:And it's consistent.
Speaker 2:It's exactly why we instilled a universal fan code of conduct this past season, so that the experience you have in Calgary is no different than the experience you have in Detroit, is no difference than the experience you have in Dallas, right, and so it is telling our fans that we expect you to behave a certain way and if you don't, there are consequences around that, and that needs to be our posture and every part of our game.
Speaker 2:Exactly what you're talking about, and our kids need to know that there is an expectation, if you play the sport of hockey, that you be of good character and citizenship. Right, because that is what life is going to expect you to be. You will be a better human being, you will be a better brother, husband, wife, sister, mother if you do those things, and there's no, there's no time like at the earliest point to begin imparting those messages, and so we have an obligation, as the north star of the sport, to make sure that we are being consistent in what our expectations are for the entire sport, not just for the NHL, but for the entire sport.
Speaker 1:Read a hundred percent. I'll say this too, and we're getting close to our time here. But I'll say this and Mike mentioned it the dream of playing in the NHL. To all the kids listening you have every right to dream and you have every right to pursue that dream. But you also have to understand that if you're going to pursue the dream, there's no guarantees, and that's okay as well, because the pursuit of it really is the gold right and should you make it, that's great. I will never tell a kid not to dream, ever. That's one of the mistakes that we hear in youth hockey oh, you're never going to make it. Don't tell your kids that. Do not tell the kids they won't make it. Don't even tell them it's highly improbable. Say you have the right to your dream, all right, but you got to put the work in. It's an opportunity. To say it's very hard, but if you put the time in and put the work in, you should have the opportunity. That's a message I don't hear enough. Right and play, because you love it.
Speaker 2:Andrew know, andrew ferentz, you know a stanley cup winner, um says all the time the most important part of his playing career and post-playing career is his love for the sport right. That never changed and he played because of love and it made him a better human being, because that's what he he loved playing and it wasn't a job to him. And I think that that's if you, if you play with that kind of passion, regardless of what the outcome is, all of those things that you learn are going to help you in life. I just want to give you one anecdote, because it happened this weekend and I thought it was just fabulous.
Speaker 2:I was talking to a young man who's played at the highest levels in high school and he's about to go to college and he's decided that he's not going to play. It's a div one school. He's decided that he's not going to play because he doesn't expect that he's going to be a professional player and he loves the sport and he's done that part. He said I'll probably do walk on rec. He said, but because of my relationships over these past 10 years and the people that I've met, I'm now joining this college campus and I already have 25 friends, because these are people that I've interacted with through the sport of hockey over the past decade and it's going to make my integration into college life so much easier because I already have a built in network. That's amazing, and that is what hockey does.
Speaker 1:I think also sometimes for the parents there's a lot of kids who go to college that don't have that. I think we have to acknowledge that too, that they don't have a network or don't have some of those life skills built up. It doesn't mean they're not going to develop them, but that is the ROI on hockey, is they can be a functioning member of a group.
Speaker 1:I'm determined to change that in our hockey society of of parents seeing it as that and not that you need the best team track suit with a lot of different letters on it and 15 showcase teams Although that's great I'm not against that for anybody that can do it but it's just that's not. That's not the end goal, Right, kim? Final final question for me. Mike alluded to this. We have a lot of kids that actually listen to this show. You are a trailblazer in this space in many different ways and I would love for you to just talk to them for a second about what it takes to follow your dreams, follow your goals and what they can expect to see along the way. Right, you're a beacon for the future. What message would you share with the young generation about the future of the game and their future in general?
Speaker 2:First of all, I'll start by saying I get up every day with joy about being part of the sport because of what I see in the next generation of leaders, and I feel like everything that I'm doing now is paying it forward for that generation that will take the helm and will make our sport and our society better. They go hand in hand, in my opinion. I think it's really important that this generation continue to act on courage. This generation continue to act on courage. Nothing in life happens without those that are willing to stand up and have the courage to speak, and courage doesn't come without fear. You said it earlier, lee, that you know there are a lot of things that we are scared of, and, despite being scared, we have to have the courage to persevere and to push through.
Speaker 1:And so my message to this generation is you know, stand for what you believe in, be a continuous learner, understand that there are a lot of people counting on you guys to take us forward no-transcript us, you and me, mike, you know we believe in you too to these kids, right, Like I think that's sometimes a message they might not hear enough that we're counting on you and we believe in you, right.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Kim, again, that's our time. You've been amazing. I'm so excited. When we booked this episode, it didn't disappoint. The amount of micro clips we're going to have are going to be endless, which is going to be good. But, mike, any final words before I close this out.
Speaker 3:No, that's awesome and, like I said, I've got so much insight as to you know where you fit in the NHL and really how the NHL fits into our world at the youth hockey level, and what parents and managers and administrators can do. And I would just say, you know, take this, take this opportunity If you're a manager this is probably coming out in the, in the well, the quote unquote off season. So, you know, take this opportunity to. You know, go out and explore your local NHL franchise and community relations and fan outreach departments and ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask. You'd be shocked at how great these folks are getting back to you know, members of the community and doing these great programs and outreach opportunities.
Speaker 2:And thank you guys again. It's such a delight to be here and to know that leaders like yourselves are really leading the way with our young people in the youth hockey space, so I'm grateful for your partnership.
Speaker 1:Well, kim, we're grateful for you and I'll say this to everybody listening Hockey fans tend to like to pound their chests and say I'm a hockey fan. Right, I'm a hockey person. But after this interview whether you're hosting it on it, a guest, or listening to it you can be prideful about the leadership of hockey. You can be prideful about where our game is going right. Where the game is going and that's part of the fandom, that's part of the involvement is knowing that you're part of something larger than yourself. It's not just a game, it is so much more than that. And, kim, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here today. This has been insightful, invigorating, motivational and I know our audience is going to like it. So thank you for the time.
Speaker 2:Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 1:That's going to do it for this edition of our kids play hockey with Kim Davis. Remember, you can hear all the episodes at our kids play hockeycom. But that's going to do it. Have a wonderful week, Continue to be great, Continue to enjoy the game. Remember to always skate on. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value, wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, Our Kids Play Hockey dot com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
