Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Girls Play Hockey - How Long Should Girls Play Boys' Hockey with USA Hockey Olympian Megan Bozek
In this insightful episode of Our Girls Play Hockey, hosts Lee Elias, Mike Bonelli, and Sheri Hudspeth are joined by hockey legend Megan Bozek to tackle a question many parents and young female athletes face: “How long should girls play boys’ hockey?”
Megan, a decorated Team USA member and Olympic medalist, shares her personal journey from playing boys’ hockey until the 8th grade to making the switch to girls’ hockey. She delves into the challenges and benefits of both environments, offering invaluable advice for parents and players navigating this crucial decision.
The episode covers essential topics such as the importance of development in youth hockey, the role of parents in supporting their daughters through transitions, and the key questions to ask when determining whether to continue in boys’ hockey or move to an all-girls team. Megan also highlights the changing landscape of girls’ hockey, including the opportunities available in showcases and college recruitment, and the social aspects that can influence a player’s decision.
Whether you’re a parent, coach, or player, this episode provides a comprehensive look at the factors that go into making the best decision for a young female athlete’s hockey career. Megan’s experience and wisdom offer guidance that is both practical and inspiring.
Tune in to learn more about when the right time might be for girls to switch from boys’ hockey and how to make the most of every opportunity on the ice.
Key Discussion Points:
•The benefits and challenges of playing boys’ hockey vs. girls’ hockey.
•The role of development and how it impacts long-term success in hockey.
•Questions parents and players should consider when deciding whether to switch to girls’ hockey.
•The importance of being seen in showcases for college recruitment.
•How to maintain a positive and supportive environment for young female athletes.
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to another episode in our new series, our Girls Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by Mike Benelli and our newest addition to the hosting team, sherry Hudspeth from the Vegas Golden Knights. Our goal with this show is to tackle the topics and discussions surrounding girls' youth hockey to better the game for everyone. So if you're involved in youth hockey in any way, we are going to provide value and insight to create both a better environment and experience for everyone involved. For this show, we introduce topics or questions to discuss and each episode will have a featured expert panelist from around the game to engage in that discussion. For this episode, our topic is how long should girls play boys hockey? Our expert panelist is a former professional hockey player who has been a member of Team USA in the Olympics, world Championships and World Junior Championships, amassing five gold medals and four silver medals. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Megan Bozek to the show today. Megan, thank you for coming on. Our Girls Play Hockey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily an expert, but love sharing my experiences and growing up and where the game has taken me.
Speaker 1:Megan, I would say you're an expert.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:The Olympic thing and pro thing. That makes you an expert in my mind. But no, joking aside, the first thing I want to do is clarify what we mean when we say boys hockey, because obviously we refer to it. That is that in the show title, because we know that's how most people are going to search for it. But in reality, in the USA the official title is co-ed youth hockey, and then we also have girls hockey. Does Canada have the same deal? Is it, is it different, or is that how it operates up there as well?
Speaker 3:I would say that's how it operates here in Canada, but they do things differently with birth years and different age groups.
Speaker 3:So I've been learning. Growing up in the States, right outside of Chicago, we always went by birth year when I played with the boys growing up and then switching to the girls side. It was under 16, under 19, but here they do it with uh and under 11 for the girls, and under 13 and under 15. So it's different and I think it poses a little bit of of a challenge when you have the cross border entering tournaments because some teams are going to be older, some teams are going to be younger and that takes advantage, I would say, as their youth, but it's. It's just so fun to see kind of where hockey has has taken it and I would say I can say hockey here in Canada but in the states, depending on who you're talking to, you have to say ice hockey, because some people think you're talking about field hockey and now there's roller hockey and ball hockey, which is absolutely incredible. But I would say it's about the same, just a little bit different with the age groups here.
Speaker 2:Megan, can you tell us a bit about your youth hockey experience? Where you grew up? Did you play girls hockey? Did you play boys hockey? Can you tell us a bit about your youth hockey experience and where that took place?
Speaker 3:Of course. I grew up in a town called Buffalo Grove, which is about 40 minutes northwest of Chicago, and started skating at the age of two and a half. I have two older brothers. They were always at the rink. My parents were done trying to babysit me at the rink so they threw me on the ice and I ended up loving it. So I started at a young age.
Speaker 3:But the first team I was on I was actually a goalie. No one volunteered so I shot my hand right up in the locker room. I said I volunteer to be the goalie. I don't think I stopped any pucks that year. I was too busy waving at mom and dad in the stands to pay attention so they knew goalie wasn't for me.
Speaker 3:But I grew up actually playing with the boys until grade eight was my first year with the girls, and so I actually got a year of checking in with the boys. So when the season started I was one of the bigger ones out there and after Christmas I was one of the smallest. So it was really good for my development to have that year of check and that physicality. But it made it very tough transitioning to the girls' side of the game where I found myself in the penalty box, a lot more than I would have liked, but it was just a different game. And now, if you look at the professional women's league, you would have really no idea, except for the blatant open ice hits. Um, but it wasn't like that when I, when I switched from the boys, from the boys, to the girls side. So eighth, grade.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's cool. Eighth grade, like 14 years old. I'm just trying to put a. Put a number to it yeah, I would say somewhere around there, yeah, yeah like 13 or 14.
Speaker 3:So I played three years of triple-a boys for team Illinois, yeah, and then moved to three years of team Illinois girls side and then moved to the Chicago mission for my last two years before I went on to play at the University of Minnesota understood go ahead my bad, megan.
Speaker 2:So here I coach the Vegas Junior Golden Knights 10U team girls team. But our girls in our organization right now at this age are playing in a house league which is predominantly boys, so they are dual roster. They're playing on a boys roster and then on our girls 10U roster. I'm getting asked by parents. Some girls within our organization you know, know they're 13 and 14, a little bit older, within junior nights and they're playing boys. So what I kind of want to dive into in this episode is when are you typically seeing girls like that they should switch completely into girls only hockey and sort of? I would like to discuss some of the factors that that go into that transition. You know you just mentioned checking, talk about the locker room situation having to change by yourself like that, those sort of um factors that that go into like when you typically see people switching into girls hockey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean right off the bat, you said it. Um, like changing by yourself. When I was younger I was able to be in the locker room and obviously, getting older, I got dressed in bathroom stalls, in hall closets. I had to go into the car at some arenas that didn't have extra space. If there's a place that I could change by myself, I've been there, I've done that and it was just part of it. I didn't think anything of it. I wasn't being singled out. It's just the nature of how it was. And if I wanted to play with the out, it's just the nature of how it was. And if I wanted to play with the boys, that's what I had to do and it was completely fine and I just I made it work. I wanted to be on the ice, I wanted to be out there.
Speaker 3:Is there a certain age that you have to switch? Absolutely not. I still see some of the girls playing with the boys in high school. Absolutely not. I still see some of the girls playing with the boys in high school. I see a lot of girls now trying to go with only girls growing up. I think the social aspect, the comfort for parents, but if you're with a good group. It shouldn't matter if it's boys, if it's girls, if the development is there. And, sherry, you do such a good job in Vegas with with development with those girls. Yeah, it's quite impressive with what you've been able to do in that market. And you see, when I, when I've been helping you out in Vegas, they talk so highly of you, they talk about their girls teams, they talk about the boys that they've been playing with and I think it's a good interaction and a good balance, so to speak, to have.
Speaker 3:Because if you're just on one side of it at a young age and you want to switch to say, go from girls to boys, go from boys to girls, I don't think you'll ever go back. So, having the opportunity to play, start playing with your friends if you're a girl and then start playing with boys, if you have some of the friends out there, it does. It doesn't matter whatever you're comfortable with. But wherever that development is, I feel like the word development has gotten so lost now because it seems like hockey has become a full-time, 24-hour day, 365 days a year kind of job, even at a young age.
Speaker 3:That development is kind of thrown in the backseat and I don't think it should be like that. So wherever you can get that development I don't think there's a certain age. I would say I learned a lot about my game playing with the boys the physicality, the speed, the toughness of it, the grittiness of it. But now, seeing on the other side how far girls hockey has come and how much more opportunity there is, I think everyone has a spot, everyone has a place to play. It's just, I think, comfort and where that development will be seen yeah, good point on being seen too with the.
Speaker 2:You know, with girls hockey, the older ones. Like if you don't switch into girls hockey and you're not playing in the showcase tournaments and you're not available to play in tournaments where all the college scouts are at, like the stony creek tournament where there's 120 girls. You may be playing in a in a smaller market varsity boys team, but Ohio state's not going to be able to see you there, like you have to be on that circuit playing those tournaments with those teams. I think to get seen like you can email, but you need to be seen at the at the girls hockey tournaments at some point. You know 16, you 19, you and you're really starting to look to get committed yeah, absolutely, and I I just think the body is just different.
Speaker 3:I knew even a year of check in grade seven. Um, like I don't think I would have felt comfortable going into grade eight doing another year of checking where those boys were still growing I was now becoming one of the smallest when I started off being one of the biggest and I'm not a small player and I just think the safety aspect of that. And then some people have some egos that say, all right, I'm going after the girl, I'm going after the girl. I think my parents should honestly write a book of the things that they heard at the rinks all the years. Some lady came up like verbally attacking my mom, being like you need to check her birth certificate. She's not this age group, she's older. And I was like, okay, I'll take that. Like looking back, I'm like I'll take that as a compliment, like I just beat your son out there, like it's just, it's, it's crazy, people are, people are, are crazy.
Speaker 3:But I know if I had another year of check I don't think I would have felt comfortable going into the corners having my head down, so to speak, at any point. But the showcases are where the girls thrive to be seen for a USA hockey development camp the under-14s, 15s, 16s, 17, 16, 17, 18, colleges and now pro and that that was pretty much the mainstream. And now I know that you can send video, you can send emails and all of that, but it's still so popular to be seen where boys have Seventy seven leagues of junior that they can pick from where the girls are just not not quite there. So those showcases are very, very important and I would say if you're one of the top players, people will know who you are, regardless of if you'll be at that showcase, if you're playing boys somewhere else. But for a lot, that's where. That's where their journey really starts, if they want to continue on after grade school and after high school.
Speaker 1:You know, megan, I'll say one thing to what. We say this to our audience all the time that you're probably not crazy, but the hockey world is crazy and we always have to remind parents of that. It's not that you're a crazy. Most of the time we don't think the crazy ones listen to this show. Something that you and Sherry are both bringing up that's interesting is the fact that and we knew this going into the episode there's no answer to the question of the title of the episode.
Speaker 1:We can't look at any young lady and say, hey, at 12 years old, that's when you should move over. So in a great discussion like this, great questions are going to demand great answers, right, with the entire panel here. For a young lady, for the parent of a young lady, what are the questions you should be asking to determine the trajectory that you want to go on? For example, you two are talking a lot about being seen and getting to college and getting to a higher level. That's one trajectory, right? So if a young lady wants to do that, that's a trajectory. There's also a trajectory that has to do with just camaraderie and wanting to be part of a team, right, and? And there's others. So let's dive into that as a group here. What are the questions and we'll take it as the young athlete, the young lady right now what are the questions they should be asking when, when considering switching or not switching?
Speaker 3:I think, first off, if they have a spot on the team, not just taking them to, to take them if they have a name, if they've played elsewhere, um, a spot on the team. For me, a big thing is development. And I get asked now on the other side of um, working in skill development with hockey um, the development has to be there. You're not just going to go from zero to hero just like that, um, and you're not going to learn much if you're just working on power play and penalty kill for half of your season at the age of 10. Um, you still have to learn the fundamentals of it all, um, but then you also have to learn about where the coach has coached before you.
Speaker 3:You kind of want to know where your child will be spending most of their time, probably more time than you spend with your family. You see your hockey community more than you sit at a table. For us as a family of five, it happened for probably over 10 years, um, and then that's just the reality of it, um. So for me, I think a big one has to be development has to be getting to know the coach on a personal level. Um, I was really fortunate to be part of a lot of teams that I'm still very close with my coaches, so I think that just speaks measures to the personality of them on the ice but, more importantly, off the ice, hockey's not going to last forever, so what do you learn from those teams, from all of that? So you have to make sure parents, kids alike, that it's the right fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, go ahead, mike, my bad.
Speaker 4:Well, I was just saying. I mean, megan, we've been on a couple of panels together and you know I've really been able to watch you up close. You know talking to young men and girls just on. You know their development and their, their path and the way you know that transition happens from from, you know, co-ed hockey to all girls hockey or all boys hockey. And one of the things you brought up a couple of times, you know, in those conversations was the impact of the conversations that you had with your family, mom and dad, and the opportunity to really talk through those transitions. So maybe could you just talk a little bit about you know what that conversation could or should sound like when you're making those decisions. You know, you know what that conversation could or should sound like when you're making those decisions.
Speaker 4:You know it's easy to say, oh, my daughter's the best, she's the best player on this team right now. She has to make. You know she's never going to get better if she doesn't play against boys. And again, we're talking to whole different regions here. Right, I'm in the East Coast, you know, northeast there's a lot of girls teams. I mean there's a lot of girls teams. I mean there's a lot of opportunity, uh, to you know, transition. If you're in Nebraska, maybe there's one team and you have to travel so far to make that transition. That then you got to weigh it. But talk a little bit about how you know the influence of your family, you know. Your personal discussions with mom and dad, you know, led you to say, okay, I've got to make this transition now.
Speaker 3:It's the best thing for me yeah, I think, um, my dad, if I wanted to stick in the fight, I could stick in the fight. I could sense that my mom had a little bit of a different feeling, just keeping me safe, um, but, um, I have the most supportive family through and through, and if they ever forced me to do anything, I would ask if this was really my parents, because they have never pushed me to do anything. Obviously, I wanted to help me pursue whatever I wanted to pursue, but it was never forced. Okay, now you have to switch to girls. Okay, now you have to play here. Now you have to play here. It's what I wanted to do and I controlled that, which I think made it an easier transition for me. But it wasn't a hard conversation to have. Going from the boys to the girls side of the game. I just knew it was time. The size difference, the personality differences, I thought it was just time. But my mom and dad supported me through that all and made sure I was getting into tryouts for that next season to go into the girls game, because I was clueless, we were all clueless, we didn't know, we didn't know, and it wasn't as popular as it is now. But having those hard conversations to say, okay, am I going to get better? I loved hockey growing up, but I also played other sports. I wasn't just hockey and that was it, but hockey was definitely my one passion. But I was concerned. I was like, well, will I get better? Will I be able to play next year and make a girls team? Will I be able to play? And my dream wasn't to play on the US team, I wanted to go to college. I wanted to play college hockey. That's what I was striving for. And then obviously, those dreams, those goals, changed as as the years went on. But it took a lot of effort as well for my parents to do their research on their end to put me in the best environment. So I ended up playing up. Instead of playing a U14 for my first year, I ended up playing with the U16s, which I think really helped for my development, and had one of one of the best coaches, tony Catchy, there that I had for five years as as a coach and, um, still like one of our good family friends to this day.
Speaker 3:But you have to have those tough conversations and you have to expect maybe a tough answer back, but know that they are responding with your best interest in mind. Who drives you to the rink? They do. Who pays all the all of your equipment? They do. Who pays all of your fees? They do. So you have to realize that they're trying to help you as well.
Speaker 3:And, um, like you said before, I think hockey's it's grown so much that it's really has become a full-time job. But, um, you don't want to be that crazy parent that coaches note and now on the development side of it, I, I've seen it all. Unfortunately, unfortunately, um, but let your kids be kids, let your kids learn a new skill off the ice that can help them on the ice. They don't need to skate all summer. They can blow, they can go throw a soccer ball, can go ride their scooters, play baseball, whatever they want to do, but it doesn't need to be hockey, hockey, hockey, because they are going to make the nhl, they are going to make the pwhl, they are going to be the next olympic gold medalist.
Speaker 3:If it happens, it will happen. But there's so much that you can learn off the ice, that you can take on the ice and, fortunately enough for me, my parents let me play every sport. I did one week of hockey in the summer growing up and I'd like to think I turned out just fine. So don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and we just learned from Brian Trache you can shovel stalls at the farm or carry buckets of milk or whatever you have to do right it doesn't always have to be do the farm workout?
Speaker 4:No, but you know so. So you're, you know, you're you hit on. One of the questions I had, too, was about you know how important coaches are in this transition and maybe you could talk a little bit about you know what are some recommendations or some or some pitfalls or some things you should look out for as a as a parent of a young girl that's looking to make the transition, and what should coaches be looking for when they're coaching co-ed teams? I mean, it's so much. I mean I found like I got to coach with the Connecticut Whale for a little while, coaching all women on one team, which is a lot different than the college hockey team that I coached that had no women and obviously all men. So, but you know I that that co-ed piece from the time you start hockey at five years old until you know 13, 14, 15 years old.
Speaker 4:Maybe a little bit about you know what. What could coaches be aware of when they're, when they're coaching teams that have young women? You mentioned the locker room piece and all that kind of stuff. So what else can what else can you know? We have a lot of coaches listening to the show. What else can coaches really look for in making that transition.
Speaker 3:I would say younger still, being the only girl when I was learning to skate six, seven, eight years old. We're all just the same out there. There wasn't any. Okay, there's a girl. We have to do this differently. There's boys here. We have to do this differently. I touched on the locker room piece already. It was just part of it for me, I didn't bat an eye. Toy set it is. It is what it is. That's how. If I wanted to play, that's what I had to do. If I had to get dressed at home, in the car, in a locker room, in a bathroom wherever we made it work.
Speaker 3:And once I got older, though, with with the boys, I felt like there was a little bit of disconnect with with coaching staff, because they didn't want to treat me differently. Because they didn't want to treat me differently. But the reality of it is, as these girls get older, their emotions, hormones, everything about a certain age is it's hard, it's hard, it's new territory for a lot of people. But it doesn't mean to be that. The girls need hand-holding, and that was a big part of me just acting like one of the boys and I was just a teammate to them, and I think the coaches had slowly but quickly figured that out, that they didn't need to treat me any differently. Um, I was just a teammate, I was just one of them. And then you go to the girl's side and I wasn't ready for the, as I pictured in my mind, like okay, now we're gonna do this. Okay, now we're gonna do this. Like that's not how I grew up playing. I have two older brothers at home too that make sure I'm not like that.
Speaker 3:And um, I didn't, I didn't get that at all. I, there was none of that. I walk into the first tryout from day one of team Illinois. There's a girl already throwing up in the in a trash can. I'm like, all right, here we go, like we're, we're into it? Um, but there wasn't any of that. It was still competitive. You have to have constructive criticism in order to get better. You have to learn from your mistakes in order to advance in anything, anything you're doing, and I think the coaches that I had made sure that that we were just players out there there.
Speaker 1:You obviously yeah, so I do want to pull a thread on this a little bit. Could we talk about maybe some specific examples of what you mean when you're talking about coaches, maybe on the boy's side, saying oh, you know, you don't have to treat me differently. Is there an example or a situation you could explain, cause I want to give the audience some context on exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, so if you could, again just trying to pull the thread on that to educate her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the physicality piece on the ice, making sure that I'm not even with non-checking, I think the boys think that they're going to check at the age of seven, so that's what they're teaching until it's actually legal out there. But okay, megan, you don't have to go into the corner and do that one, just items like that, which, okay, but I was like I'm fine, like I don't, but like again, I had coaches that it was great. And I know other people that played on the boys side that wouldn't even be invited to like a full checking practice because they were. They wanted to make sure she wasn't going to get hurt. Where I specifically remember, our coach would bring football pads out there like the big blockers and stand in a corner. So there were three of them and we'd literally have to go get hit by the blocker. Go get hit by the blocker. But it was just part of it, that's what I signed up to do. I didn't want any other treatment.
Speaker 3:Um, but then, taking that to the girls side, first practice, I'm just running people. I'm like, okay, this has got to. I have to change my game. I have to learn how to play physical without being that physical. Um, but the coaches weren't hand-holding us. They weren't. The coaches weren't hand-holding us. They weren't babying us. They understood.
Speaker 3:I think A lot of girls in one room can be a lot. A lot of boys in one room can be a lot, for different reasons, but there wasn't any major I'd say major concerns on that. And even through youth and then with the national team, bob Corkum had never coached girls in his life. Has the head coach of the US national team coming from the NHL, one of my favorite coaches. One of my favorite coaches. It's a clean slate. Doesn't know a lot about the players, but ran it as an NHL organization. Ken Cleee same thing, nhl organization mentality, which it's just incredible to see, that you don't have to be treated differently, you don't have to be singled out if you're a girl playing on the boys team growing up and vice versa.
Speaker 1:I think it's an important distinction to make because, again, I think for most coaches of co-ed teams, they're just trying to do the right thing. Right, they're just trying to do what they think is the right thing. But if we don't have these conversations and discussions, how do you even know what that is Right? Um, you know, my daughter is, uh, seven years old, going on eight, my son is 10. They both play and it's been an interesting journey for me because, uh, my daughter is a very go at you type of person, which I love. But I've noticed on one of our teams, our school team, there's a female coach and there's several girls players and she approaches that situation not with more glee but with more understanding of oh, there's girls on this team, right, and then for her club team, she's the only girl on that team. It has not turned into a discussion yet and I'm not trying to spark a discussion there because I don't think we need to have it, but as a, as a, as a dad, it's a curious thing to watch, right, that I do recognize that she recognizes there's other girls on the team and that's an empowering thing for her. Now again, at seven, eight years old, we're still in the in the might squirt era of hockey, where co-hockey is hockey, right. It was funny, really quick story. I won't say any team names, but a very prominent girls team in the area. The leader of that organization came up to her and said hey, when do you want to play for this girls team? And she just kind of looked at him and said I'm a hawk, just like the team that we played for. Like it wasn't registering in her mind. This goes to the age group, right, it wasn't registering in her mind. Well, that's an all girls team. It was just another team to her, right.
Speaker 1:But I do look ahead as a father and it's not why we're doing the episode, but this is why these episodes are so important to me personally is to find those questions and to kind of I don't want to say look for the signs, but maybe recognize behavior that. Is she comfortable or uncomfortable? How is she approaching this? What should I say or not say? Right, as a father, not just a coach, as a father I can be put in danger of saying are you okay? Do you want something different? Like I can't try to treat her differently in that sense either than I would my son or anybody else Right Now. Personally, I think she just loves going out there and chasing her brother or trying to score on her brother depending on the team he's on, he's a goalie or defenseman. But it's an interesting thought process that we go through as dads when we look at our daughters in this situation, right? So an episode like this is really helping.
Speaker 1:I want to continue on the train of thought that Mike was talking about too, and I want to be specific around the group here. Just questions parents should ask their daughters. Probably when you get into that pubescent time period, it's when most transitions into girls hockey takes place. But we talked about it earlier. I think a great question please tell me if I'm wrong is just hey, what's your goal? Is your goal to be a pro hockey player, collegiate hockey player? Do you want to be the next Megan Bozek, right? Or is your goal you're just having fun? Right? And again, I'm with you, megan. We all are here, play other sports. My daughter plays softball. She loves that too. While I'm a hockey person, I try not to make sure she thinks she's a hockey person, right? I always have to remind myself that, like no, she's a little athlete. That's what she is. But getting back to it, the questions what is your goal? What are the other questions parents should have in the back of their minds when they're in the time period these discussions take place.
Speaker 3:I think too, if, like, I have a little guy at home too, and if he came to me and said I want to be an NHL player, okay, great, that's not going to matter to me until years and years ahead, where we could actually maybe put him in a different position if he chooses that path. I think it's getting so specialized at such a young age that it's hard, because you'll ask someone what's your goal? Okay, I want to be. I want to be in the PWHL, yeah, great. So what is going to change at the age of eight to make sure you become a PWHL player? It should be nothing, it should be. You are a child that has so much learning to do that you have these goals and you have these dreams and that is absolutely amazing to talk about. But that should be irrelevant to your and what you're going to put them in for the next few years. And that's my thought on it, that's my take on it. I have just seen so many females, so many males, that have specialized too young that maybe their career as a youth ends because they don't like it anymore. Whatever it may be, yeah, it's a burnout.
Speaker 3:Um, I think more of the conversation between a parent and like a daughter should be. Do you feel comfortable there? Are you having fun with your friends? Are you learning something? Um, and that's all. That's all it is.
Speaker 3:But I think, as a parent, it like I know my parents would ask me, when I was playing with the boys, the same exact questions Do you have friends out there, like, are you being nice to other people? Are you being a good teammate? Right, because it all revolves around that. So I don't think the conversation necessarily has to change with if there's a girl playing with the boys, if a boy's playing with the girls, if it's all girls, if it's all boys. It should be the same. You need to raise a good human. You need to raise a good kid, a kind kid, because, let me tell you, when you get older, word travels fast. So if you have a dream to play college hockey, college coach will give me a call and be like oh, do you know so? And so, yeah, she's very disrespectful. Okay, off the list. List as quick as word of mouth.
Speaker 3:Exactly. That's all. That's all it is.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. You bring this up too because you're right, the questions are very similar, no matter whether you're talking to a boy or a girl, and we always like to reiterate on the show that you don't want to overdo it with the questions, like you don't want to ask the same question every day are you okay, are you okay, okay. But I think it's also important to note that don't assume your child is going to just tell you hey, I'm uncomfortable and I'll tell you why. Parents, and again, again, we can have a discussion on this too.
Speaker 1:Um, at one point not too long ago, the uh, women's ice hockey and college rate was like 50 percent of girl hockey players got to play in college, which is, it was by far the biggest conversion rate in all of the NCAA, that's, division one and three. Um, what that did, I think, to a lot of fathers and parents was oh, you've got a chance, you've got a great chance. And you start telling your kid that at 10 years old, right now, you have made this somewhat of a job or your dreams are ending up going down to them, right, and this is not their goal per se yet. And really, at eight, nine, 10, megan, to your point. That's really not what they should be thinking about. It's great to dream, don't get me wrong right, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done and a lot of things that are going to be happening, right? So the FOMO aspect of well, 50% of girls make college hockey teams can really put pressure on your kid if they are uncomfortable not to tell you that because they don't want to disappoint you, or other common things that Mike and I have heard on this show is do you know how much money I've invested in you to play this game? What do you think a kid understands about that? They don't understand that fully. They understand there's they pay, you pay for things. But when you tell a kid, well, the money is the value and not your, your mental state, that's what ends up happening.
Speaker 1:So, just to kind of get off my soapbox here, you should ask every, you should just tap in every once in a while Are you you comfortable having a good time? Are you having a great time? Be honest with me, right, it's okay if you're not Boys and girls. I think should be asked that question once a season, right, are you having fun out there? And if they give you an answer. That's like I'm not really just have the discussion. That's what our jobs are as parents at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:But you gotta be careful the pressure you put on your kids. And I said for young girls, I remember when I heard that stat and in one of the rinks I play, at Megan, they have banners of girls. I mean across an entire rink. There's lots of names, all who have made college hockey programs, and I love, I love that the rink is very proud. But it's also like for me, you know, like I said, dad, you're like, wow, that's an opportunity, but I can't put that on my kids. Right Of of, that's what you need to do now, right. So I'm trying to make that point of just, we got to mind our own selves here in these situations, because it can be exciting, especially if your kids show on promise. But you got to be present, you got to be where your body is. It's a day-to-day journey and things can change.
Speaker 2:Getting back to what Megan said too, is is the high when you start getting up into the high level. So girls, parents listening to this, when you're 16, 17, 18, you're being recruited. Like what Megan said, word of mouth travels fast. When you're playing high levels, college coaches are looking for character. They're going to sit down. They're going to sit down. They're going to talk to your family. If you are a high level recruit, that coach may come to your house for dinner. So character is what they're looking for on the high levels, right?
Speaker 2:So if you have sort of nut job parents that are screaming, it's too much and it's trickled into the kid's body language where it's you know. You have to. You really have to emphasize being a good person and I think you know, whether you make it or not in hockey, that's going to transition into the rest of your life and your work life that you're a good person. So I think some of that we get away from when we're just looking specifically at a kid being a good hockey player. To make it to NCAA, to college, to pro, you need to be a good person.
Speaker 1:Well, great people make great players, right. We preach that on the show. That and you said it, sherry character is part of the prerequisites. If you want to do it and again, if you have immense talent, immense talent you may make it someplace. But in our experiences and the people we've interviewed, it's not going to last as long as you want it to if you don't have that character piece, right? Sorry, megan, did you have a comment on that?
Speaker 3:No, I just laughed when Sherry said they may do home visits. Yeah, I got a story coming on here, yeah. Yeah, I had a home visit and I wanted to play at University of Wisconsin. Through and through, I wanted to be a badger. It was two hours from home, a big home body, and I had the Minnesota coach, brad Frost, come in and do a home visit he was in town, whatnot and comes in. This is great.
Speaker 3:Wow, like cool poster kind of thing I'm like oh gosh, like yeah, I ended up going to Minnesota, so it's all fine, but it's a running joke now that yeah, yeah maybe should have uh taken that down.
Speaker 3:But character builds everything. Character will make or break a team, will make or break your culture, and there's not going to be even playing time, there's not going to be even uh dressing time, um, but character develops those leaders on the ice, off the ice. Whether you play 23 minutes, whether you play 13 seconds, if people can come to you, you're a leader, regardless if you have a letter on your jersey or not. So that's just as important as being a top line scorer, because every team needs those character building players to complete their team. There's a reason you play a team sport, not an individual sport.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think, in seeing you two in action and and watching you know, and we're talking about how the growth of girls and women's hockey is so big, but at the, at the, in the real scheme of things, it's tiny, right, I mean it's, it's a you're. You know, and you've mentioned that a couple of times in your talks with these, you know elite 11 and 12-year-olds that because it's so small and because it's so compressed, you are gonna run into the same girls every single tournament, every single tryout, every single showcase. And then that reputation follows you and it's so hard to change that initial piece, like once you get that little. And really mom and dads too, right, talk about you're a recruiter, you're in the stands, you're in the registration process, you're in the thick of the tryouts. Talk real quick just about that, mom and dad, and what their intensity is like with the girl you know signing up and registering, and how that affects your decisions to put certain people on certain teams.
Speaker 3:If you're a parent, keep your mouth shut as best as you can, but for the right reasons. So if you see something, you say something, whatnot? But you have to realize that you are putting your trust to drop your kid at the bus stop and send them to school. Five days a week you can do the same thing, but now you have a little more leniency when you get into sports because you drop them off. Well, now I can watch. Oh well, now I can talk to the coaches. Oh, now I see a recruiter. I see a college coach. Let me just go ease my way up there.
Speaker 3:It's a balancing act. But let your son, let your daughter perform, and if they need help, that's when you step in, but let them do it. You're not going to go to college with them. You are not going to go to the rink every day with them. And I will tell you and I've seen it before, if you have parents that get too involved with a coaching staff, with um now talking to college coaches, it travels, people know, and it's not a good look to have. Let your daughters just play without the stress of worrying about oh, I see dad in the stands, he's talking to someone, or I see dad or mom in the stands and move your feet. Move your feet coaching from, coaching from the stands. Let them play.
Speaker 3:There's time after and I know, mike, we chatted about this last month on a panel give it a little bit in the car, let the game sink in, whatever it may be. You can talk for a few minutes. But if you just give so much information for, say, an hour car ride, I'll tell you right now your son or daughter is going to listen for probably the first five minutes and then be like, okay, this is so negative or too much information. Yeah, headphones on selective hearing is at its finest, at its peak right there. But you have to give them time to realize.
Speaker 3:Give yourself a five to ten minutes chat with your child and then that's it. They're not going to learn much from you jumping down at them to say, well, you could have done this, you could have done this in the second period. Why didn't you make that pass to to Claire out there? Well, I don't even remember that play because I had 16 other ships before and after that. So there's got to be a balance. I think the parents have to understand and realize and, um, there's a lot that comes to it, and emotions play a part in your child's performance as well big time, big time and they might not talk back to you, but they're.
Speaker 3:They're now processing it. And then when, for all of us, when enough is enough, what happens? Yeah, some, something explodes. So, parents, I think, let your child do their work at the rink. Um, if you want to have a conversation, absolutely get to know the coach, whatever it may be, but don't interfere with other things. Just trust that there are others trying to help your son or daughter one of our most popular episodes ever on.
Speaker 1:The show is titled the car ride is not for coaching. Um, and again, I always joke with the, the eight-year-olds, and I said you know, I told parents, you know what your kid's thinking about after the game. Well, how they played Fortnite, thinking about getting back on the Xbox and the Nintendo Switch and probably not thinking too much about hockey. Now, with that said, every parent loves it. But when a kid says, hey, how'd I do today? What'd you think about the game today? If they engage, I engage, but after the game is, and it's hard, I always say this to parents it's hard, but I won't. You don't bring it up unless, unless they do right, the car ride home is is not for coaching.
Speaker 1:One last question for me here, megan, I'm going to throw it back to Sherry. It's an important question to ask for the for the purpose of this episode. You know, what should we educate boys and men about when having a girl on the team? We talked about this a little bit earlier in terms of just no special treatment or not not providing special treatment that way. But I think it's also important, you know, and you can speak directly to me if you want, as a dad and as a coach to my boy players what should we be educating them about when it comes to this? And it might, it might be like you said. Just don't treat ladies any differently, right, but what? What? What is the answer to that question?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, um, obviously depending on age and all of that, and obviously, if there's a girl in the locker room, don't get unchanged and all of that, but as a younger youth, um, treat them as your friend. Treat them as your friend, be kind, that's your teammate. If you have the same jersey on out there, that's your teammate, that's your friend. You don't have to be friends off the ice if you don't want to be, but just be kind. Everyone is, everyone is trying to gather new friends and gain new friendships. Just don't be a bad person. That's, honestly, my advice to what it comes down to. I think as they get older, conversations will be different. And oh, why do we have a girl on the team? Why do we?
Speaker 3:like what is she doing? What is she doing here? Let's pick on her today Like I've seen it. I've been through it, I've heard it all Um, and it's just the nature of society, unfortunately. But just be a kind person. You're all there for the same reason. For that 60 minutes 50 minutes, depending on where you live like, be a good, good person, and I'll go back to this through and through.
Speaker 3:There is a reason that you play a team sport and you're not playing an individual sport. You look to others to help you, to help yourselves, but you're working for that front of that jersey. If you wanted to do anything else, then you wouldn't, then you wouldn't be here. So just be a kind, just be a kind person. I think it does have to take a little bit of work from the parents to have conversations with their children to say, okay, you do have a girl on your team, that that's great, this is her name and um, that is is what it is, and there's obviously, if issues arise, have have a conversation, first and foremost, um. But for the younger I I don't see any difference of having to say, okay, there's a girl on the team or you have a new teammate right, everyone yeah, like it shouldn't matter if you have a new girl on your team.
Speaker 3:Oh, you have a new boy on your team. Oh, you have a new teammate. You have new teammates every year. Like you guys have new co-workers. I can't speak it, but like you have new coworkers every year. You have new employees every year, like it's. It's not like, oh, you have a new lady at the desk over there. No, you have a new employee, you have a new coworker. So I think, as as the kids get older, there has to be different conversations, but as the younger youth, like you have a new teammate, that's all.
Speaker 2:So, megan, I'm sitting here in Vegas recording this from City National Arena and right now in the background there's a boys hockey tournament going on. It's eight in the morning right now. There is a all girls team registered playing in this boys tournament. Yesterday. That all girls team it is the East Coast girls team. They beat a boys team eight, nothing. So what I want to get into is kind of the stigmas around girls playing hockey and girls hockey and uh yeah, you can just speak on stigmas that are not true about girls hockey development if they can play, they can.
Speaker 3:They can play there. Why do they only have to compete against girls? I love. Oh well, there's a girls team in the tournament.
Speaker 2:The parents are upset, the boys are upset, slamming sticks.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 2:They're getting stripped and lit up and the boys are slamming their sticks and it's kind of interesting. It's like these boys are 12 years old. Why are they so upset? It's like where is this coming from? This is this stigma is still around that boys are better or they're better than girls, and it's like at this age they're all the same and if anything, I would argue that girls, mentally at 11 and 12 years old, are ahead of boys, so it's not that surprising that they are lighting them up, but yet parents are mad. The boys are mad. Like where is this coming from?
Speaker 2:yeah, like who are they learning still? Who are they learning that from?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, where are these boys learning that from?
Speaker 1:is my question and answer. Yeah, yeah, like it's, yeah it's.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, like growing up. I had the opportunity to play in the Pee Wee Quebec tournament and I played on the first girls team with Mano Rayom as my coach, and we would beat the boys and boys. It's crazy. Do they get that emotional after every other game? It's wild. And, sherry, like you said, it's 2024. I can't believe this is still a thing. But where are they learning that from? Where are they? Oh well, we had to change our game because we couldn't hit them. No, well, if you don't have checking, this is 12. Yeah, this exactly. There's no checking. Your game has not changed. You're just. I don't know if you're embarrassed, I don't know if your parents are embarrassed that you just lost to a girls team, but you just lost to another team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just going to say you lost to a hockey team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the girls. Some may say like, okay, we have a lot more to prove out here and other teams just go and play. And that's when they do prove that they can compete, if not be better, than whatever other team they're playing. And if it happens to be a bunch of boys, it happens to be a bunch of boys. For myself, I know, being the only girl on the boys team growing up, I felt like I always had something to prove to make sure I belonged on that team, because it was a very competitive AAA team and all of that. But looking back, I feel like it made me better and through all of it, I just think it's me better and through through all of it, I just think it's. I think it's self-explanatory of like, where do they learn that from? Why are they slamming their sticks? Why are they? Where did you hear that being beat by a girl is still a bad thing?
Speaker 4:I think more of it. I think that I think that and I think that you know, to Sherry's point though, the stigma part comes from education. Right, it comes from the fact that when you're in the world of sport, you know that 1112 and 13 year old girls, on the most part, are stronger and bigger and, and, and you know, maturity wise, they're in a different place, like they're able to understand concepts more. It's not just physical play, although they can be physical, it's just. I think that's piece, is that educational piece sometimes of you know, and I'd love to hear you know, are the girls, parents in the stands like whooping it up to like look at, we just did.
Speaker 4:You know, you know, wait, you know I'm a, I'm a big, what goes around, comes around type of guy.
Speaker 4:So you know, I always kind of be careful about you know where you are and you're in that, in that snapshot of time, um, and we're, you know, as a player, and I think you know, if you're educated in the sport or sports and athleticism, you'll know that, like if I'm a boys coach of 11 and 12 year old boys seem like oh crap, you know these girls are gonna to kick our ass. Like this is like they're just cause now they got an all-star team of girls at at you know at at, you know where they're peaking quicker than my very immature, small and and you know feeble young men. So so I think it's just, I think it's just a matter of just knowing you know the context of where you're at. But I think that piece of the stigma comes from, like anything else. It comes from the education and understanding, and maybe those coaches of the boys teams need to come in and, like me, I'd be preemptively being like hey, listen, we're playing girls that are going to be more mature and they're stronger and they're an all-star team.
Speaker 1:What an opportunity.
Speaker 4:I would help my boys understand that this is not a negative. It's that they're playing. They're actually playing a higher level athletic team and let's try to compete with them, and I think that's just how you can help. You know, frame that so it's not a stick swinging.
Speaker 1:You know angry boys that are all worked up that they're getting girls you know I'll add in, mike that my son's team and his division there was an all-girls team with the junior Flyers and I think the coaching staff for my son's team and he's a squirt, so a little younger than 12, but the way they presented that team was you're playing the junior Flyers tonight and the junior Flyers are a really good program, which is 100% true for that team. Junior flyers are really good program and, and which is a hundred percent true for that team, it was never you're playing a girl's team and and when they you know that team kicked up their butts a few times, there was obviously some chatter of like they're all girls but they, so what? Like that was kind of the it's a hockey team You're playing. You're playing the junior flyers. I don't you know what that symbol means on their Jersey, right, there's probably people listening like, wow, it means this. No, the point was you're playing another hockey team. I don't, didn't matter. Uh, uh, from a coaching standpoint, if you will, um, the gender of the other team. Um, I think another important thing and megan, you brought it up, but I'll say it as a guy um, I hear things all the time and I think, as men and women, but mostly men. You got to mind the things you're saying. I'll give you a great kind of low level example that I hear every year. I live in Philadelphia. We love the Philadelphia Eagles here.
Speaker 1:The amount of dads who have daughters that call the Dallas Cowboys the Dallas Cowgirls is astounding to me. Now I understand what you're trying to do, but what you're doing is putting the word girl as a weakness is. That's what makes them weak, now that you're calling them the cowgirls. And remember, I turned to one of my friends and said like what, what are you doing? Like your daughter's right there, like, don't you realize what that means to her? You're telling her they're weaker as the cowgirls. And again, you can. This is one of those things. At home, you can roll your eyes and say, wow, that's different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta mind your language, and there's a lot of language that, um, it's all I will say this. It is always getting better. But but there's a lot of language that will just say and you don't realize that? Like, like, without going into it. Dads, when someone's weak in your mind, what is the go-to word that most men say? You're a blank and it's not right to say that.
Speaker 1:Now, to be fair. I've heard girls say that too, but my point is it's like you got to think about these things before you say them. It's in your language. You tell a boy till they're 12. Don't be a blank, Don't do this, don't be a girl. You're playing like a girl. Megan, to your point, sherry, to your point. What do you think happens when a girl beats them? You've been telling them that that's weakness, which it's not, for their whole life. So that, to me, that's part of the solution here, and breaking that stigma is, mind your language. When you're talking to your own kids and, and again, dads and some moms to your you, you probably don't even realize you're doing it. You're just not conscious to it. I'm not, I'm not trying to point a finger. You, you don't have to feel massive shame if this is something you've done, if you've recognized what we're talking about here, just make the change.
Speaker 4:I mean john cooper. John cooper just did it. I mean he, he had apologized for the thing I mean. I had to ask a coach that we had, you know, and he's an older guy and coaching our with our lacrosse kids. He's like come on, ladies, you got to get going out here.
Speaker 1:I'm like listen, John, you really can't sit anymore.
Speaker 4:You put me in a bad spot here, you know what I mean. So I said, said, but but at the same time, uh, you know to megan said earlier, don't be, uh, don't be not hard on the girls like you've got. If you're listen, if you're, it's going to go both ways right. You're gonna be like listen, I'm going at you right here and I think from a, from a like a grow the game perspective and and from where my I stand. Most of the time in my professional career I I kind of put the girls into groups earlier, younger, not thinking about the development piece, but thinking about the social piece, thinking about like everybody's not built.
Speaker 4:Me, megan Bozak and Sherry Husbeth, and you know you guys are, I can guarantee you, you were elite athletes growing up. You were probably the best Athlete is a key word there too. Boy or girl, it didn't matter. But the fact is there's a lot of boys and a lot of girls that aren't that. And for us to grow the sport sometimes we have to put the, you know, the girls that aren't as aggressive, the girls that maybe are a little bit, you know, and boys, you know, in places where they can succeed. I try to keep them in the sport as long as we can and then see if they blossom out. But not everybody's going to be like, oh yeah, I can't wait to play with the boys, I'm going to kick their butt and and that and it goes. That's just not how all our athletes are made.
Speaker 4:And Sherry experiences is now because she's part of growing the game. You know it's not her the job, right, and Megan, you job with the, you know, with the stuff, with the Rangers you do and other programs, is not to produce PWHL players, it's to grow the game. And I think that's where you know we, we, you could be a little bit of everything, but understand and watch that athlete and say, okay, where can I push this athlete, boy, girl, whatever, and if you could push them, there's a lot of boys that I I'd be like, listen, I'd stay out of checking until I was 16. If I was, you cause you're, you're gonna, you're gonna quit the sport because you can't handle it. But all of a sudden, at 16, you're like, oh my God, where'd that kid come from? He just grew seven inches and got mean and you know, and then and got confidence and now, but they stayed, lasted in the sport long enough to succeed, and I think that's really one of the biggest pieces here, you know, of that, of that total development.
Speaker 1:So, megan, we're out of time, but I have to ask you this one kind of quirky question. If I'm not mistaken, you won two national championships with the golden gophers. Is that correct? Yepers all right so so did. Did wisconsin ever contact you in any way? And just think about that from this other standpoint oh we don't have you know what?
Speaker 3:I again was put in a very good position to have a choice of what school I wanted to play at, and I love that Wisconsin was close. I was also looking at Boston College, boston University and Harvard. Just too far for me, I don't think my studies were up to grade to go to Harvard. So I visited Minnesota, absolutely loved it. When I got on campus, knew I wanted to spend four years there and Wisconsin ended up winning my sophomore year and then we beat Wisconsin my junior year to win the national championship and then we actually went undefeated my senior season, yeah, defeated my senior season, yeah, and won another championship. So no hard feelings.
Speaker 3:I think one of the best things parents take note of this um that I ever did was before I committed to Minnesota. I called Wisconsin, harvard, bc and BU and told them I was committing somewhere else. So they heard it from me. It wasn't an email. I called them on the train down going downtown Chicago with my mom. I'm in tears, but I knew it had to be done and to this day, coaches still remember that and it's kind of something so simple that took 10 minutes out of my day that it was. They're hearing this decision from me, and it was they're hearing this decision from me in all of that. So when you have communication, choose to communicate, but don't do it for your children.
Speaker 1:That's that character piece that we've been talking about. Megan, a few things I want to thank you for. One I want to thank you for everything you've done for hockey, at every level you've played at. Your character is oozing out of this podcast in the best way possible. But it is such an honor to have you on and that's the second thing I want to thank you for is giving us so much time today to discuss this issue, and I know our audience really appreciates it. So thanks for coming on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me. I think you guys are in good hands and coming up around the youth with Sherry and Mike. It's a great podcast to be on when you have so many people involved in the youth. And, um, yeah, it's just incredible to see where hockey has grown, and I don't think you ever could have imagined that sherry be running a program in las vegas when it's 176 degrees out. So, um, that's what the kind of people you need to make the world go around. So thank you very much for having me. Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2:Megan for joining too. This is such an important conversation. Obviously, growing the girls game get asked a lot. We want to try to get as many girls playing hockey as possible and we do have girls programming here, so educating parents that it is. You know, it is great you can make the Olympics playing girls hockey. You you can go college hockey or you can just have friends like whatever path works for you. So very important conversation today and I really appreciate your time, megan. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I look forward to seeing where we're at 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, as the game continues to grow. That's going to do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Hockey For Mike Benelli, sherry Hudspeth and Megan Bozek. I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next episode. Everybody, have a great time and skate on. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value. Wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, ourkidsplayhockeycom. Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
