Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Kids Play Hockey is a podcast that focuses on youth hockey, offering insights, stories, and interviews from the hockey community. It provides valuable advice for parents, coaches, and players, covering various aspects of the game, including skill development, sportsmanship, teamwork, and creating a positive experience for young athletes. The show frequently features guests who share their expertise and personal experiences in youth hockey, both on and off the ice.
The show features three hockey parents, who all work in the game at high levels:
- Christie Casciano-Burns - USA Hockey Columnist, Author, and WSYR Anchor
- Mike Bonelli - USA Hockey Coach and Organizational Consultant
- Lee M.J. Elias - Hockey Entrepreneur, Author, and Team Strategist
In addition to the main podcast, there are several spin-off series that dive into specific aspects of youth hockey:
1.Our Girls Play Hockey – This series highlights the growing presence of girls in hockey, addressing the unique challenges they face while celebrating their accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Each episode of Our Girls Play Hockey is also hosted by Sheri Hudspeth who is the Director, Youth Hockey Programs and Fan Development for the Vegas Golden Knights.
2.The Ride to The Rink – A shorter, motivational series designed to be listened to on the way to the rink, offering quick, inspirational tips and advice to help players and parents get into the right mindset before a game or practice.
3.Our Kids Play Goalie – This series is dedicated to young goalies and the unique challenges they face. It provides advice for players, parents, and coaches on how to support and develop young goaltenders, focusing on the mental and physical demands of the position.
Together, these shows provide a comprehensive platform for parents, players, and coaches involved in youth hockey, offering insights for all aspects of the sport, from parenting, playing, or coaching to specialized positions like goaltending.
Our Kids Play Hockey
Our Girls Play Hockey - Debunking 5 Myths About Women’s Hockey with Hannah Beckman
In this episode of Our Girls Play Hockey, we dive deep into five common myths about women’s hockey with our expert guest, Hannah Beckman. Hannah, a skater for the Puerto Rican National Ice Hockey Team and recent graduate from Utica University, where she served as Director of Operations for their NCAA women’s program, brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the conversation.
Together, we discuss and debunk the myths that have long surrounded women’s hockey, shedding light on the realities of the game and how it’s evolving. From the false notion that women’s hockey isn’t competitive, to misconceptions about body types needed to play the sport, this episode is packed with insights that will not only challenge outdated beliefs but also inspire those involved in the game to push for a better environment and experience for everyone.
Whether you’re a player, parent, coach, or fan, this episode is sure to provide valuable perspectives on the current state and future of women’s hockey. Don’t miss this engaging discussion with Hannah Beckman as we break down these myths and explore what it takes to thrive in the world of women’s hockey.
Myths Busted:
1.Myth 1: Women’s hockey isn’t competitive.
2.Myth 2: You have to play boys’ hockey to get noticed.
3.Myth 3: There’s no future in women’s hockey.
4.Myth 4: Girls need a certain body type to succeed in hockey.
5.Myth 5: Coaching girls is harder than coaching boys.
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Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome back to another edition of our new series, our Girls Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by Mike Bonelli and the newest addition to our hosting team, sherry Hudspeth from the Vegas Golden Knights. Our goal with this show is to tackle the topics and discussions surrounding girls' youth hockey, to better the game for everyone and, if you are involved in hockey in any way, we're going to provide value and insight to create both a better environment and experience for everyone involved. For this show, we introduce topics and questions to discuss, and each episode will have a featured expert panelist from around the game to engage in that discussion. For this episode, the topic is five myths about women's hockey, and our expert panelist is a skater for the Puerto Rican National Ice Hockey Team and a recent graduate from Utica University, where she served as the Director of Operations for their NCAA Women's Program. Hannah Beckman joins us today. Hannah, welcome to Our Girls Play Hockey.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:We are excited too.
Speaker 3:Good morning, Hannah. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Good morning, thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're happy to have you on our new show. Our Girls Play Hockey. Before we dive into the myths Lee has told us all about you, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and the work that you're doing with the Puerto Rico ice hockey organization and how that's growing?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, a little scary what Lee has said.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to it's an off the air discussion.
Speaker 2:It's an off the air? Yeah, I am. I have the honor to be on the Puerto Rican national team. I've been on on the team. I've been a player for four years now three and a half, three and a half, four years. It's been crazy. It's been an awesome experience.
Speaker 2:It's obviously growing like any new organization, whether international or travel or college A lot of bumps in the road because it's new.
Speaker 2:So but to just be a part of the process and be a part of the journey, it's been absolutely so fun. And to just say that I'm I'm a national team member is is super cool and something I never thought I would be able to do, obviously as an American. And you know there was once upon a time where it was like, okay, probably not going to make team USA at any point. And then all of a sudden, um, you know you're going about your college career and you get a call for the Puerto Rican national team. So ever since I got that call it's, it's uh been a commitment of mine for for four years straight and it's been so fun and just seeing the growth and obviously the effect that um, being a Puerto Rican athlete has had on people on the Island and just people of Puerto Rican culture around around the world honestly has been so cool and and to just be a part of it it's like I kind of have to pinch myself a lot.
Speaker 1:You know what I love about that, hannah that you're bringing that up and we're starting with this is that I think the number one reaction that those of us involved in the Puerto Rican Ice Hockey Association get is there's ice hockey, you guys play ice hockey? And obviously the answer is yes, but what's cool about it is this does show how much the game has grown, and it actually segues perfectly into our first myth, which is that women's hockey is not competitive. It's competitive enough to have a Puerto Rican national team, but I do want to start here with the panel, and again, this is the obvious one to start with. Right that women's hockey is not competitive. I'll just start by saying I've seen no evidence of that being true. Every women's game, or even girls game I've attended has been competitive. So why don't we start with you two, sherry and Hannah? Why does that myth even exist?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think it dispels it with the rivalry series, right, like if you look at the rivalry series between Canada and US, and I think that's the definition of competitiveness Like on the ice, the game is very physical, there's a lot of chirping going on, uh and uh, yeah. So I think this, this one's definitely a myth hannah, why don't you dive into that?
Speaker 2:you've been on the ice too yeah, I can't, I can't like stress it enough. It's, it's such a myth. Um, like you mentioned it, the rivalry series. That's exactly the the route I was going to go at too. Um, you know, team Canada and now, and team Canada versus team USA, and now, like, growing as we keep going, now it's going into Sweden, switzerland, czech, all these teams and everywhere.
Speaker 2:You know, I had the honor of being a part of this year's world championships, just as an intern cause. It was in Utica and we had that opportunity and to see it like upfront and personal, like you obviously see the competitiveness on tv and everything, but these girls are dialed like they are. They're working for something that goes far more than themselves and anything. They're working for their country. Uh, they're playing for their country with an absolute, huge pride on their back and their chests. Um, and these girls just want to go out and they want to kick some butt there. They're not friends on the ice.
Speaker 2:Obviously, all these players are are teammates, like in the PWHL or back in college, but once they have their respective nations on their chest, it's all fair game and they just put their bodies on the line. They put their everything online. It's game and they just put their bodies on the line, they put their everything online. It's crazy and and you can tell just how driven they are. Like at worlds, you know every girl, every athlete is dialed in like they're there to win and it's it's kind of like it gives you that, like God, I want to be in that stage because, like the competitiveness is just unreal, it's it's like you can just feel it in the air. So that's a huge myth for sure.
Speaker 4:I think some of the myth, oh go ahead, mike no, I was just gonna say, thankfully, I think that myth is there because of you know, a bunch of old-time hockey players that have never watched female sports hockey, volleyball, whatever it is you know. I think that this shift has come with the fact that you know, now dads that play competitive hockey have daughters and they're like I'm putting my daughter in this and I'm competitive and my wife's competitive and like all the people in the sport, it's the sports growing. So you're going to get the more competitive people getting in it and inherently, inherently, those girls are going to be more competitive, right, because they're just it's in their dna. But I think you know the old time uh, you know, pro hockey fan is probably the one that's saying that myth, like I would never pay for a ticket for competitive. You know to watch girls sports.
Speaker 4:But we're seeing that shift, right, the reason why you can fill an NHL arena for a PWHL game is obviously because there's a. There's a lot of people that don't believe that that myth is. They're living it. So I think it's just the. I think it's the transition of you know, moving from from one norm to to now a new generation of people coming through, and I think you know what you're doing with Puerto Rican ice hockey, what Sherry does with the NHL, like that's the kind of stuff that continues to. You know, break that barrier, I guess, from the people outside of the playing surface.
Speaker 1:Sherry, did you have something to add to that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like in youth hockey too, around the rink when there's um, you know, parents deciding whether they're going to put their daughter in girls or boys hockey. I think it might come from that too, where it's like parents maybe feel like girls hockey is not as competitive and my daughter has to play boys hockey so she can improve and go faster. But now I think, as as girls and women's hockey is growing and there's more girls playing, like mike said, is like the hockey is going to be competitive right out the gate, like here with you know, learn to play. It's boys and girls, and then you go like into your, your continue to play program it's boys and girls and they're they're even. So, yeah, definitely a myth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that this is a stigma to this one that's been broken heavily, especially in the last 12 months, um, and the way that women's sports has has really exploded across this country, right, the other thing, too, is that I can tell you this just from my own experience Um, I have never played hockey with a woman who was not extremely competitive. Number one, I have never coached a woman that was not competitive. Um, you know and and and again, when I spend time with preha team puerto rico, uh, you can see it. I mean the, the will to win, the will to compete, the will to get better, is is the same. I think also, too, that there is a stigma within this myth, um, where I hear people say, well, they can't check, and it's like, look first off if it's a rule. It's like look first off, if it's a rule, it's not within their control, cause if they could hit, they would.
Speaker 3:And the other thing too I was just going to, I was going to dive into that. That game's pretty wide open.
Speaker 1:The other thing, too, is that sometimes I don't think people look at it through both lenses. It's not like the men's game is leaning towards more contact at this point, it's actually trending the other way, right? I did want to throw it to Mike one more time because Mike, mike, mike invited me and the crew out to Hartford. He was coaching professional women's hockey and that game was just fantastic. I mean, like again and this is the earlier years of women's professional hockey, mike, so you've seen it firsthand from a bench I mean, there's no lack of competition at that level.
Speaker 4:No, when you're able to put two teams in in the Bridgeport, you know, the Islanders, the semi-pro facility and those women go through there and they're treated like pros and the people that come in to watch them are watching them like pros, not not like a. Oh, this is a novelty event. This is a real pro hockey game. Now, you know, are you going to get, are you going to get 18 000 screaming fans every single game? If you had an 80 game season, maybe. So at some point you're going to, but for right now, you know, I think everybody has to just go with the fact that it's a gross sport.
Speaker 4:But when you're in it, the people that are actually in the sport, when you watch the rose series, when you watch, you know, peewee, quebec girls, when you watch these rivalry series, they, they don't go in like, oh, let's just get through it and make sure we don't have a pizza party afterwards and everybody's friends, which they're going to be anyway, just like the boys, right? I mean, well, you know, and I'll tell you, I've seen, I just, and you get you talk about the body checking and the body contact. I mean, I used to. I watched those games as a first time, like in a pro atmosphere with competitive athletes like that female athletes. I was like, oh my God, like that was a check.
Speaker 2:Like that was like a pullout.
Speaker 4:Like I'm like hey, and then me, you know me, I'm like are you okay, I'm like, of course I'm okay. What the hell are you talking about? No, are you okay? I'm like of course.
Speaker 2:I'm okay. What the hell are you talking about?
Speaker 4:I think it's like you know, I think that's just getting over the fact that you're like, okay, well, this is actually these guys are. You know, this is a sport and it's it's a physical sport. And I think to your point about the men's team game coming back to the center, like the men's game getting back to. Let's not blow people up at center ice and the female game saying, well, we don't do that but there is listen.
Speaker 4:Last week I just started checking clinic for nine girls yeah, it's all girls. All body contact, body position, body, you know, and just knowing how to take a check, give a check and be in a clean place to separate the person from the puck, that's checking I mean. So I guess you, you want to define, like I think I'm, you know, an old-time nhl fans be all checkings of, you know, scott Stevens. That's a check, but that, but that's not. The game is coming to a place where your body contact and body position is certainly more important. And why? Because you want to win, you want to, you want to maintain the possession of the puck.
Speaker 4:And that's where I think you know, I know I get kind of knocked around a little bit by saying this puck.
Speaker 4:And that's where I think you know, I, I know, I, I get kind of knocked around a little bit by saying this, but that's why I have my young kids watch the female game more, because it looks more like youth hockey right than the men's game. It just does. It looks like the way you have to go in to get the puck looks more like a like like you would if you were a 16 year old male, like it just does so. So it's just, I try to use those because that looks like hot and plus, they're wearing masks. I mean they look like, you know, real hockey players. They don't look like neanderthals out here, you know, but I think it's like you know, just I just like I love the fact that it's competitive, it's, it's the, it's the core of the game, it's like the way the game looks, like it should be played and the skill level and you guys have been a part of this the skill level every single year gets like more and more and more impressive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mike, happy to hear that You're teaching girls body contact, because it's going to be interesting going forward with USA hockey, like if PWHL the very top where you're aspiring to get to is going to have body checking or have a heavy body contact competitive contact.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think that's girls yeah, but here's the problem girls, all the way through the system, have not been taught how to take a check or how to take a hit. So now you've gone through college, which is pretty physical, but if you're playing pro and now all of a sudden you're, you're getting blown up. You have to learn. So, like within the youth hockey, somewhere is it going to be like the boys. We're at 14, you, we start teaching how to take and take and receive a hit. You know so it's, unless we start implementing.
Speaker 3:Implementing that in the lower levels and and where do we do it in girls hockey. That's going to be a very interesting conversation going forward with USA hockey and I think it is just the same as the boys. It's around 14, you know when you start hitting and then you go to clinics and you start incorporating in practice and the boys games going more kind of away from it, like Mike said, is more stick on puck, more angling, and I think you see that in the women's game there's a lot more emphasis on angling because you don't have the body checking and a lot more emphasis on proper stick on puck play, and that's kind of the way that the NHL and the men's game is trending now like less blowups, rock them, sock them and just more you know finesse.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sorry, are you sure? No, no, cause I was going to say cause you know you're, you're, you're the guest, so you could speak.
Speaker 1:There's no competitive contact.
Speaker 2:Mike, I'm right here, I'm ready, mike.
Speaker 4:I'm right here, I'm ready. No, but I'm just saying, like this is where, like this is where, like maybe the conversation we'd have and it's probably we're getting to it Right, but like that, why? Why? Why parents keep their daughters in boys hockey longer, thinking it's a better way for them to learn.
Speaker 1:That's a good tease for the next myth Don't jump the gun.
Speaker 2:That's a good tease, mike.
Speaker 1:I want to hear, I want to hear about why, why that competitive one?
Speaker 2:and then we'll dive into myth number two yeah, just two like final points, like with it, like, um, the first one being like sure you said, like teaching, you know at some point in time, like you, whether it's like you 14 or at some point, like you know, when I was growing up and like learning to play hockey, like contact wasn't even in in coaches, back of their minds, right, like they obviously taught board battles, but like to a point it was, it was like okay, like we literally can't hit in girls hockey, so therefore we're not going to even touch on it for a second. Um, I saw like one video, like earlier in the off season or yeah, earlier in in the offseason, pwhl Ottawa was having a full practice based off checking and that was something that I was like look at that because it is so obvious. And with the world championships, like these girls are so physical and it was insane, like me being a D3 hockey player, like not that that's any much different hockey, but there's obviously a lot of there's a lot of competition and and girls are so riled up and it gets physical. But at that level the PWHL and the world championships, on the national teams it's like these girls are fully learning how to put their body down, how to play it? Where does it implement? Where is the right time for me to, okay, play the body rather than the puck?
Speaker 2:And it was so fascinating because I was in the stands at one point for one game and this guy turned around to me and he was like and Mike, you touched on it a little bit, the older generation of the girls aren't as competitive the older generation. This guy turned around to me and he said you want to know something? It was my first time at a really high, competitive women's hockey game and I want to come to more because the girls are not hitting as much and they're making actual plays. The guys sometimes, especially like in u18 or something, guys are so focused on. Okay, guys coming down on me, far, far blue line. I'm here, the boards are there. I'm gonna just deck them so I can get the puck rather in women's hockey.
Speaker 2:This girl is, okay, I'm gonna make enough body contact, but then I'm gonna go right for the puck and try to get it to my D partner.
Speaker 2:So it's like fascinating with. That's why also, women's hockey is growing with how competitive in just hockey skill set, because they are, because it wasn't always checking, checking, checking for girls hockey and women's hockey. You kind of have to always learn how to make the quick plays and the higher level that I see these women are at the play is just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's so fast and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on. And it's like, now that checking is involved, these girls are becoming so smart with how they're going to maneuver their bodies and then the puck in in a blink of an eye and I think it's like so fascinating and I definitely like agree with Sherry, like, like with these girls, like I think there has to be at some point in time maybe USA hockey can implement okay same thing we were doing with little boys and check clinics and learning hey, if you see numbers, do not hit the player when you're in front of the boards. You kind of have to implement that now with girls hockey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I think when it comes to the competitiveness, we can learn from each other, right? I think and that's always the approach I try and explain it to younger coaches is like you can learn from anywhere women's sports, men's sports, different sports when you take that approach of an educational background towards it, it's always better. But yeah, we're. I guess we're kind of like myth busters here today. So I'll just say myth one debunked, creative, it's gone. But um, I'm gonna move around here because I got several myths listed here, so I'm just gonna kind of go with the next one. That makes sense because we were teasing it. But here it is myth you're more likely to be found playing boys hockey.
Speaker 3:This is a myth and why it's a myth found. I'm assuming we're referring to, obviously, college scholarships and moving on. If you're playing on a boys varsity team, say, you're a goalie and you're playing in a high school league, like in Pittsburgh or something, people are not going to see you, we're just going to get out. But you need to be playing in these girls showcases where the college coaches are, where they can see you compete, right, like you can send video all you want, but coaches want to see you competing in person and what kind of person you are, how you act in the lobby, how you act around your parents. They need to see you and to see you.
Speaker 3:Typically, you're going to be playing girls hockey and girls hockey showcases. So if you're hiding somewhere in boys hockey, that's great, but unless, like, the word gets out about you, a coach may not have the budget within their college program to fly out and come see you wherever you are playing your boys league, right. So if you're playing on a girl's team, you're going to get to be in the showcases. You're going to get to go to girls tournaments and girls camps and be seen where these coaches are and Agreed, myth busted, I feel.
Speaker 2:I think one of the main questions few players, especially in my generation, who literally never stepped foot Like I, trained with boys, like, just like skills, um camps or whatever, but I never like played with boys. And I think right now, specifically, I think it's starting to phase out, which is so good because, exactly like Sherry said, like to get scouted by colleges and you know, I've seen it firsthand of what Utica University coaching staff does. They're going to these showcases that are all girls hockey based and it's very specific on what, where they are going, the demographic. It's not like, okay, we're going to go to mass and Connecticut and hit the tri-state area, it's not necessarily that. But there's always a list of prime showcase tournaments that college coaches are always going to attend.
Speaker 2:Beantown, which starts, I think, this week, this weekend, beantown Classic is a classic tournament that you all, colleges all throughout North America, will be attending to watch girls who want to play in college hockey. Um, another one is chs showcase that happens during the summer, again, um classic, like turkey trot, like thanksgiving tournaments, um ones in early november for christmas, and then the ones in the spring. Those start to a little phase out because all these coaches are then going to the championship showcases, like the USA Hockey, nationals, etc. But if you're not going to those tournaments, which are girls hockey, dominant girls hockey alone showcases, you are not going to get scouted by the schools that a you want or B you even think that you want. If you're going to boys hockey tournaments, you're going to have boys hockey coaches college coaches or juniors coaches.
Speaker 2:It's not going to help girls in the long run. Um, so mainly, I think there's comes to a point. I think also like at home the conversations for parents is to okay, you played hockey with boys for u8 and like u10 when it comes to u12, like you got to be all girls hockey, because if you want to get to the highest level, you have to go where you're gonna be seen. Exactly like Sherry said, like the word may get out, but coaches really rely on in person because you can hear all the words you want, you can see all the video you want, but coaches will make a decision based off of how they physically see you, because they're seeing all the behind the scenes as well, not only who you are as a player, but as a person too also too, like I've coached at post university.
Speaker 3:I was division three when I was there and we went to the Stony Creek tournament and that was over 120 college scouts. So you have club, you have D3 coaches there. All the D1 coaches are there and they're there to, you know, see the players and talk to the players or not, like when they can you know D3. So if you're not, yeah, if you're not in those tournaments, you know you're not going to be seen. If you are in those tournaments on a girls team, it's it's really going to help your chances of being seen. Also, with the tournaments, when they check in, the coaches get a list of who's committed, who's uncommitted. You know. So you may love a player and but you don't know, like, if they're committed or not with if you just found that player, so attending those tournaments as a coach too, you're going to know who's available and who's not available.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if you're a parent listening to this, I think Sherry makes a great point. Like at post-university, you know, when you're an assistant coach and you're out on the recruiting trail, you're not. If you're the men's coach and you're like at a high school boys game and you see some great female athlete, you're just it's not even in your mind to be like oh, I got to get ahold of the women's coach and tell her about this girl I just saw. Like it just doesn't happen. You know the time you don't have the inclination, like the worlds aren't colliding there.
Speaker 4:So I think that you know, every once in a while, maybe if you have a good relationship with the other staff, but really it's like listen, I'm here to look at these four players. That's like to the male, to the men's coach, that's just like, oh, wow, wow, I can't believe she's really competing against these guys. She's doing a great job. But that's not then going to say, oh, I'm going to post this and get this girl notoriety. Go to girls programming, where the most people are going to be to see you. That's how you get found. But listen, if you're good enough at the old adage from the beginning of time, you are good enough, you will be found. So no matter what you're doing, at the end of the day people are going to find you.
Speaker 2:There's also this sorry Lee, there's also this like underlining myth as well that I've heard some people like throughout, like my career, that some girls even are like parents of players will be like, well, my daughter played boys hockey, so yeah, they'll definitely make it far. That comes with, we don't know, because that's great. You can, like Mike said, you can compete against these boys, you can skate with them, you can do all these things. That's awesome. But if you're trying to make the college hockey level and beyond, coaches want to see how you compete with the competition that you isn't gonna be on University of Wisconsin when we're playing them in in the WCHA. You know final like, you know like and it's like they want to see that's great.
Speaker 2:Because some players as well, it kind of affects their game a little bit that when they're playing boys hockey and then they transition to girls hockey, they're doing all these tendencies that are like okay, wait, like that doesn't fly in girls hockey small silly things but also like a lot of big things that really can affect your game.
Speaker 2:So if you're sticking with competition that you're never gonna see in girls hockey, that may help you with your physicality levels and your endurance and everything like that and and your puck reaction skills.
Speaker 2:But also, like you know, coaches want to see okay, can you play against people? We're going to be playing against teams, we are going to be playing, and like at these showcases like when I was at Rice Prep, you know, playing against Stansted College, they had a full roster of Wisconsin commits it's like, okay, for me that was terrifying, but like in the end that also helped me because I'm like, okay, wait, if I can go on a face off against a Wisconsin commit, that kind of gives me a little, a little leeway or a little positivity, you know for for division three III competition or what have you. So it's like you kind of have to make the decision okay, what's going to benefit me in the long run, and just at the end of the day, just saying you play boys hockey is probably not going to help you for the best, the tier one girls programs also.
Speaker 3:They're going to have people on their staff when you start getting up there. They're going to have people on their staff when you start getting up there. They're gonna have people on their staff that are well connected within the recruiting trail coaches and they typically send emails about, like this this player's doing this this month or they. They really help your chances of getting you know, promoted and stuff by uh, by just being well connected in the way, this game.
Speaker 1:I think it's also really important here that, like, again, the myth that we're busting is that you won't be found. Uh, if you, if you do this right, like, like, the be found is the key thing. The myth is not, you can't learn or or or grow from playing with boys, right and again, uh, we just did a great episode with me, bozak, all about that, right, because the journey in or out of boys hockey if you're a young lady, there is no specific path. Right, there's no answer of, like, this is the moment you need to switch. I think there's value in playing hockey period, whether it's with boys or girls. But again, for this myth that you can't be found if you don't play boys hockey, I think we've debunked that one big time. But it's important to understand the differences there. Like you know, if you have the opportunity to go out to a high level practice with anyone again, it doesn't matter to me if it's boys or girls take the opportunity to practice. Right, you're going to learn something. But if you want to be found, you have to go where you're going to be found. But if you want to be found, you have to go where you're going to be found Right, and Mike made a good point.
Speaker 1:Look like I doubt if women coaches are going to watch a game, they're not calling the men's coach either, like hey, you got to check this guy out. Like they wouldn't do that. It's a mutual respect, mike, you have something there? No, I guess I say about time, yeah, yeah, well, look, that actually leads us to our next one here, which is an interesting one for this year, specifically Myth there's no future in girls hockey.
Speaker 1:Now, this is an interesting one because 24 months ago, it's almost a different conversation. Now, I do believe this to be a myth, but we are in a renaissance right now of women's sports, where I don't know how anyone can believe that anymore, right? Also, I think, when we discuss this, we've got to discuss two things here, right? One is that there's the path of the player. There's also the path of being involved in the sport, right? Because, again, look, we say this on every show we do on our kids play hockey, our goalies play hockey, our girls play hockey. And the ride to the rink, the ROI of youth hockey, is the life skills you get to make, the people you get to meet and the person you get to become. That is the overarching golden part of playing youth sports in general. But when it comes to this show, the myth when I throw it to both of you both women who work at high levels of hockey that there's no future in women's hockey the show alone debunks it.
Speaker 1:But let's discuss it well, I'm sitting in an nhl front office right now, so if that doesn't, debunk it that there is a future for you in hockey, and I'm I work in men's hockey, right I work for the vegas golden knights.
Speaker 3:Right, there is a future for you in hockey and I'm I work in men's hockey.
Speaker 3:Right, I work for the Vegas Golden Knights right there is opportunity, although I did not make it playing professionally. There wasn't that opportunity for me when I was younger. I was a little bit older but, um, there is opportunity now for women in the game. Like you see it, with Haley Wickenheiser, she's an assistant GM with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like Cammie Granato, there's top levels. Now you're starting to see Jess Campbell, she's an assistant coach with the Seattle Kraken, so coaching positions are becoming available. There's broadcasters a lot of great Cassie Campbell, you know Tessa Bonhomme. There's great female broadcasters and you can work in ops, you can work in sponsorship, you can work in foundation, do community stuff. A ton of doors are opening now in men's hockey and women's hockey with the pwhl. But just because you're not playing doesn't mean like you can't stay involved in the game and you don't need to be the next available olympian to work in the nhl. I didn't play in the olympics and if you have passion for the game, um, there's, there's a door that's going to open for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hannah, before I throw this to you, cause Sherry's a humble person, I do want to say that the one thing that she has that none of us have and most likely nobody listening to this has is a Stanley cup championship. I can't say that. I can't say I was involved in that. I can't say I had anything to do with that. Sherry, you, you can, and I encourage you all to listen to our actual, our kids play hockey episode with Sherry, where the cover image is her with the Stanley cup.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We got a beautiful gold ring to go with it. Thanks to Mr Foley.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, she has a Stanley cup championship ring.
Speaker 2:I have pictures of them. Moving over to Hannah, who also has a gold medal right with the with Puerto Rico from the Latam Cup. Like you, is there future in women's hockey? What do you even ask it? It's there. No, uh, there is. You know, it's so funny. The first, the first, like time you like said the myth I thought to like, I said this to someone.
Speaker 2:It's like I'm so jealous of little girls right now because, they are like, oh, I'm getting chills, like saying it like right now, where they're looking and and with all the amazing pioneers and women who, who are in the spots where sherry you are, where hayley wickenheiser is, where all the pwhl athletes are, and the list just goes on like the girls are seeing nothing but them being able to do it. Like when I was young I was we were always saying I'm gonna play in the nhl, I'm gonna be the first female nhl player. Now it's girls are saying I'm gonna go to the pwhl, and that is so just fascinating to me and obviously I'm like beyond jealous that they have that. But, um, it's just like so fascinating that, like throughout all the different generations that are going like it's just constantly growing, like the women's sports in general are just boom, boom, boom, boom. They're like stepping up the game and stepping up the expectations almost every single season and it's so great to see. Obviously, lest we not forget, the leagues that were here before, the PWHL, which was the NWHL, was the PHF, the CWHL, the Canadian Women's Hockey League, with all the teams that of that were there. They kind of really set the precedent and and I love also always like giving them credit too, because even though we didn't have much for my generation to look up to of what we can make where we can make it, after college I did see those leagues and I grew up around those leagues and I idolized a lot of players in those leagues. One of my old coaches, who's still in the PWHL right now Madison Packer, like she's she's a pioneer that I grew up watching and she was my New Jersey Rockets U16 coach and I was so lucky to be coached by her and and to just like see her keeping on with the game and growing and doing everything.
Speaker 2:Um, just the growth is just going to go through the roof at some point and it already is up there. Um, just with the pwhl and the successes and selling out all these nhl arenas, you know like I couldn't help but get teary-eyed with um the game at scotia bank arena with pwhl toronto versus montreal. That game was absolutely sold out. The game was rocking. Um, it was so cool to see. And just the pictures of like marie philippoulin and laura stacy like looking up just in awe of like everyone there to watch women's hockey.
Speaker 2:Um, it's growing and right now women's sports in general is just becoming sport and it's not. Oh, people are talking about women's sports in general is just becoming sport and it uniforms. You know getting a paycheck for playing professional hockey. They can't do anything but aspire to be in their position and that's so cool to see. And it's just going to grow from here. I can't wait for down the line to say, now that the PWHL has like 10 teams, like I can't wait until that moment happens and I have no doubt in my mind that it probably will. So it is growing so much, like it's like an overwhelming amount that it's growing and it's so cool.
Speaker 1:You know, our producer Caitlin, who many of you hear us reference on the show all the time in her office, has this it's a plaque, it's like a framed picture. It says women belong in sports, and we decided when we moved into this office that that needs to be very prominently displayed so that anyone who comes in here sees that, and we're proud about that here, right, the other thing too, and I'll tell a quick story here, and this is cool, there know, there's that phrase about I wish someone would tell us that we're in the good times when we're in them, right, and it's. It's funny with women's hockey, the, the generational growth, uh, you know, I've referenced on this show many times how, um, watching the 98 women's Olympic team was my introduction to women's hockey and I was enthr right, I was in my teens at that point, but that was my introduction to it. And then, as you said, all these other leagues, all these other opportunities in college hockey have grown. That here's a cool story, though. As we said, hannah plays for the Puerto Rican national team. My daughter and my son also take part in this association at the youth levels, and I had this really awesome opportunity at one of our last events to bring all of the young ladies that we coach to meet the national team.
Speaker 1:And the challenge was kind of on me. I wanted to do a team building exercise together. But when you have, you know, collegiate and professional athletes and a seven-year-old kid, like I, figured what can we do? That's's going to, you know, work here, right? So I said, well, you know what Rock paper scissors is pretty, you know you can win that if you're seven years old. And the look on the young ladies when they were going against the team, the way they were looking at you was, I mean, it struck me. I mean again, I've seen it before and other people but what I was thinking about, hannah, was that this is the norm for them Now, this is completely the norm for them.
Speaker 1:And then I got a really great moment with my daughter. You know not, not that I was using my behind the scenes access or anything, but you were playing and I got to bring her right to the glass, right next to the bench, and you all acknowledged her coming off the ice and we high-fived her. But like we, we we always hear those stories about how the nhl player tosses the puck to the kid in the stands, and that's the moment you provided that for my daughter, right and? And whether it's team puerto rico or a pwhl team, this is now the world she's growing up in.
Speaker 1:And look, should she decide to continue to play, I mean, I don't know what the future is. I'm not putting pressure on her, but she has seen a world in which that is now the norm, and that's something we got to continually push forward across the board. It's not just in girls hockey, right that that the future is what you can see. Right, until you see it, it's not real. I think there's a there's a broad portion of the population out there that just doesn't think that way sometimes because they've been seeing it every day for their entire life. So go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, it's, I love. I mean, obviously, like I got a little chills there and I still see that moment with your little girl every day too. But you know, I thought about the times where, during the NWHL, you know, there were players giving me pucks and there was one player in particular, she gave me her stick and she signed it. And that just goes to show like, if you know, you, just, these players, if they're putting which all, almost all of these players do they put a lasting impact on these young little girls going forward. And it's just so, it's great to see. Because I always think about the quote, right, the classic quote within women's hockey and women's sports If you can see it, you can see it and it's just so fantastic, be it. And it's just so fantastic and and that's why also, a lot of times, everyone is is really pressuring the, the media coverage and the coverage of women's sports, women's hockey, um, in general, because that goes such a long way, right, like if little girls can't see them doing something they don't know if they can do it, um, that was something for my generation. We had no clue, we didn't know like not many players even, like I had teammates who, who.
Speaker 2:I say the CWHL, and they're like the what, like what that is, and I was just like you didn't know what that was, like what and um, you know, like for me, like I saw it and so I thought I could be that. And so now, with the PWHL, it's like you're scrolling on Twitter and you see it. So now this little, some little girl at home is going to see Poulin being such a pillar and a pioneer and and someone who is pushing women's hockey by just being who she is and by being the fantastic player that she is and person as well, because she is a incredible human being, um, from from just seeing her, uh, with just talking to media and talking to fans, and even she had a quick words with me and she just a quick hey, how are you doing today, like at worlds? And it's just like, wow, like that. That goes a longer way than she probably may think it does.
Speaker 2:Um, so it's like, like, it's so important right now with like coveraging and showing how much, um, women's hockey is and women's sports in general is legit, um, and so we could just keep going from there and and, yeah, these girls are going to be, you know, doing something big for little girls at home around the world yeah, before before moving to Vegas, I lived in Johnstown, pennsylvania, and I coached a 12 year old girls team with the Johnstown Warriors, and team USA came through and they were playing in Pittsburgh and we took all our girls to the game.
Speaker 3:They watched the game and then after we were fortunate enough to get like a meet and greet with some of the players, right, so they finished their workout and we had our girls all lined up, ready for them to come out of the gym and just quickly meet our players, say hi, you know, sign some stuff for them, and a bunch of them came out, but our goalie was standing at the front of the line and she was just perked up like waiting to see Maddie Rooney, just like that's the only player she wanted to see, and Maddie Rooney didn't come out of the locker room. Um, for whatever reason, I just she just didn't come out and our goalie just started bawling because all the players like Lamoureux, hillary Knight, everyone came pretty much came through, but for whatever reason, maddie didn't. The kid starts just bawling. She's like Maddie. You know, I didn't get to meet Maddie.
Speaker 3:Hillary Knight recognized this, took the kid down to the locker room, got Maddie Rooney out of the locker room and this kid got to have a very special moment and meet her hero, just privately, one-on-one, and ask some questions, and that probably changed that kid's life. You know what I mean. And then another kid like Lamereau, and for Christmas she asked for a Lamereau jersey instead of, you know, a Crosby jersey. So seeing the girls having them at the games and meeting these players and having female ambassadors, it does make an impact. It does get through to kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's something I think we all play a role in, like you said, and Helen, that's a good example of this. Just the recognition of what's happening, the recognition you can change it. The recognition of what's happening, the recognition you can change it. You know, we just again thinking broad strokes here, like I remember that story of Carrie Price and that kid in the crowd whose mother had passed away and he recognized something was wrong. We've always said it on every show Hockey players are very talented hockey players.
Speaker 1:They're also really talented people, they're really good people and we've had those people in women's hockey and it's just great now that that stage or that broadcast grows and grows and grows right. So I would say this myth was busted before we even talked about it, but we did need to talk about it. The next one we're going to do a little turn here. This is a really important one and I'm going to give this right to Sherry and Hannah, because Mike and I probably shouldn't talk too much about this one in terms of we need to listen. But the myth is this girls have to have a certain body type and mindset to play ice hockey.
Speaker 3:This is an important topic and you know, part of the reason why we're doing the show is to talk about these topics. So, parents, if you're listening, turn it up right now. If you're 15 years old, you're 16 years old turn Parents, if you're listening, turn it up right now. If you're 15 years old, you're 16 years old, turn this up right. Two hours a day. You're in the gym, maybe one or two hours a day and you're, you're putting some weight on, especially like in your bumps, like you're going to have a big bum from skating.
Speaker 3:The men have it, the women have it, but women's hockey players are not a size zero, they're not a size two.
Speaker 3:And if you look at, like you know, just society's view of women and body images that you need to be skinny and and you see a lot of girls not a lot of girls, but like I've heard the comments like in the gym where they don't want to get too muscly right and it's like if you're going to play at a high level, you need to have some muscles.
Speaker 3:And if you look at the team, usa athletes and college athletes, their body types, they have bigger shoulders, they got, they got triceps, they have abs, they have glutes, big quads and they're all sizes Like you have players that are five, 10, six foot, and then you have arguably one of the best players right now is Kendall Coyne and she's five foot two. So you know, with men's hockey, where they're like you have to be six foot two, you have to be 200 pounds. They're trying to put weight on. This is not men's hockey. The PWHL doesn't even list their height and weight. So a big myth is yeah, with body image, we have to just get away from that and have positive self-talk about body image.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of agree more with Sherry's points. It's, it's tough, right, Like with with me, you know, I don't, I don't, I'm never hiding, I love working out in the gym. You know, getting stronger, especially with, like, my quads and stuff that was something that was always an issue for me and always has been is actually putting on weight. I'm a small, small girl, I'm also five, three on a good day, Um and uh, you know, no matter how much I work out and how much I I try to gain muscle, for some reason my weight doesn't change. Um, but I didn't. Personally, I didn't really let that get to me. Um, if I felt strong and if I felt I needed to get stronger than I did that.
Speaker 2:But there is a lot of, I think you know, conversations that are missed within young girl hockey players that you don't need to go into the gym or yeah, you'll get there. Maybe. Just focus on your endurance right now. Like, if you want to get to the highest level, you have to kind of just put that all aside and just just work so hard in the gym off ice training is so important and it's so crucial. And you know, Lee, you mentioned mindset of, you know playing, and I think the the biggest thing with around athletes is obviously mental health, Right, and and that goes along with our physical health as well and you know it's, it's no, it's definitely not, um, it's not like a lie that hockey in general and sports in general plays a huge mental toll on you. It does, Um, it's a, it's a tough thing. It goes with competition no-transcript, especially within, within college hockey. Who maybe will look in the mirror and be like, oh, I hate wearing dresses because my shoulders?
Speaker 3:are so large, that's a big one. Yeah, I mean for me personally. Yeah, people make comments too muscly. Or you look weird in a dress because you have a spaghetti strap dress on and you're jacked in your arms.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 3:I mean that's me right. Like I have super broad shoulders, like it works super hard to get jacked and then only to hear comments from like aunts at weddings that you're too big.
Speaker 2:It's so tough. Or, you know, you get the comments like why don't you wear dresses? Well what, you're a girl and it's like okay, for me, personally, I don't like to. I like to wear pants, and and that's just a personal preference for me, because I'm a hockey player, because I'm an athlete Um, I really feel more comfortable in my pants, and it's not because I don't want to show off my muscular legs. I mean, I'm wearing shorts all the time too. Um, so it's the same thing, but, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:You kind of have to go with just the reminder all the time in your head of I'm an athlete, I am strong, I need to be strong, my quads need to be really muscular in order for me to skate fast and for my agility to be at the best it can be.
Speaker 2:And it's tough, it's definitely. There's a lot of times too, I think a huge topic that's important to touch on as well as is nutrients, because some athletes, and some female athletes will say okay, well, I'm really big here and I've put on all this muscle, so therefore, I'm going to skip two meals today because I don't want to overdo it, and that's something for me personally. I've always talked to friends, I've talked to teammates and I said nutrients is so important for you, for athletes, for us athletes. We have to fuel our bodies so we can compete at the best to our physical ability, and that's something, too, that I think always, I think needs to be talked about more, especially with youth hockey and parents at home, too. If you're really listening to this like you got to hone in on, on making sure your female athlete is eating properly while also training their physical body and and their their muscles. It goes hand in hand, so it's super important.
Speaker 4:You know, oh, go ahead, mike. No, I was just going to say I mean just stay on the oh, go ahead, mike. No, I was just going to say I mean just stay on the topic of body type and mindset for hockey women or men, boys, girls is just make sure you're in an age-appropriate environment to do those things. I think if you're a girl on a 12-year-old boys team and you're working out the same way, you might have to look at that and see your pediatrician and see a sports, you know nutritionist and a physiologist and just make sure that you're not doing things that you shouldn't be doing with the body type, with the size, with the weight, with the age, with your you know, puberty, like just all those kinds of things. Because I think you know, say, oh, a 12 year old hockey team, they're all the same. And I'm not just I'm not saying this just for girls either.
Speaker 4:It's just that's everyone you know and you know, say, hockey's done a great job of showing those studies that, like, biologically, you know, a kid on a 12 year, 12 U team can might be nine, could be 14, right, like, depending on where that kid is. So just just be aware of that. Like, like I said, I think the you know it's ironic that the body type conversation comes up when the fact that women's hockey is getting more and more and more physical and coaches are looking for bigger and stronger and nastier players. So it's going to be. But then you got on the boys' side too. You wouldn't expect a Goudreau to be out there laying somebody out at center ice. So there's a room, there's a place for all types of players, but just be aware of when you're in that developmental stage and that's really the audience we talk to, right? Is that young developmental stage? Just do your research and make sure you don't lump everyone into the same timeframe, exactly.
Speaker 1:Mike. What's funny is that and I always use this metaphor across the board is that when they're babies or toddlers, we always say, well, they'll speak at a different rate, they'll grow at a different rate, they'll walk, they'll run, like. We're very patient with very young children on their development of these skills. And then there's this it's a myth, but it's like there's this thought process oh, that stops at a certain point. And then the's this it's a myth, but it's like there's this thought process oh, that stops at a certain point. And then the process like oh, when you're 21, it never stops. Like there are grownups that are slower to things than other people. It's just, your development is not on a set path. I mean there may be benchmarks, there's. I mean, when you have young kids, all your kids are in the 12th percentile. They give you these things, but the learning, the growing, never really stops, right. So the point I'm making is this they're 10. There's no correct path, but there is the ability to speak to a professional, a doctor, someone who knows that. And again, hannah, that goes back to what you were talking about is doing what's correct, making sure you understand your body and the way to do that. I do want to bring this up too, and this is kind of for the dads that are listening, and this will merge actually into the final myth at some point.
Speaker 1:My wife is obviously a wonderful person. I love her very much. I always joke she's five foot but I look up to her because I'm closer to six foot, but she always gives me great perspective, right, she's a high level person in her field and she'll come home and tell me stories of being a woman in a high power position and sometimes the lack of respect or the lack of awareness of what she has to deal with from a societal pressure system or that you know, she as a dad. That's how I'm asking this question what should I know to ask my daughter or not ask my daughter? Right, I think there's two sides to that Because, again, I'm not a young girl. It's not something I understand. So, when it comes to body type and mentality for a youth athlete who's a girl, what maybe are the questions or the approaches I should be taking as a father?
Speaker 2:I think one huge thing I immediately thought about was how my dad spoke to me when I was a kid and one. I'm very blessed with my, with my father, because he just for so many things. But the one main thing is, you know, he always knew I was an athlete. He always knew that that's what I was going to strive at, that that was my thing, we were all athletes, but he knew that that was like what I was always going to do. Um, so for him, you know, I noticed he he didn't talk to me like I was his little girl, little girl, or he didn't talk to me like I was his, his boy. He talked to me like I was his little girl, or he didn't talk to me like I was his boy. He talked to me like I was just me, like he didn't see, he didn't change right, like I have one brother, so he's the only boy and my dad out of the whole family. So for us, like I noticed that he didn't really talk to us any different. He just talked to us like we were us.
Speaker 2:Um, and something, especially with my sport and with hockey is he definitely, and he was an athlete, a college athlete too, and he just always asked me the one question how are you feeling? And it's always, it was always after practice, after training session, and and I feel that question goes a long way, especially from a dad, because he's not saying like he, never one where he he said you were slow today, so you better work out more. You know, oh, you look skinny today, like he never did that. He was just like, hey, we got to gain some more muscle. I noticed you were a little, your power isn't. So there, we got to, we got to hit more squats and then, but at the same time he was always like okay, how is your food today? You know, like he wasn't just hounding me, but it was always just the thing of how am I feeling? Because if I was feeling good, then he wasn't going to pressure me into into anything. He was like if I said, oh, I'm feeling a little weak, then he'd be like okay, so we got to do this, this, this, this.
Speaker 2:He was always motivating and that and that I think is for dads and and their girl athletes is proper words and just like knowing, okay, let me not push, let me not make her feel as though I'm going oh, you need to do this, you need to do this, just always just leading with, tell me how you're feeling physically, mentally, emotionally right now, and then we can just figure out a solution. Because that's him too. He's a problem solver with everything in life, so he just wants to figure out. What can we do? So just careful words and careful and just consideration on okay, what maybe does she need right now, depending on what she needs. Then I can help her in whatever aspect she needs.
Speaker 1:Do you have anything you want to add to that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think with girls, obviously, confidence is huge. So you want to have, you know, be positive, have good encouragement for girls and try to keep their confidence up. In the younger youth hockey. I don't think there's any instance where you need to talk about body type or weight to these athletes. Like, if you're in youth hockey, um, I don't think there's any instance where you need to talk about body type or weight to these athletes, like, if you're in youth hockey, focus on skill development, help them with their confidence, help them get through drills.
Speaker 3:I don't think it's your lane at all to say anything to young players, boys or girls, about their body type, good or bad. Like, stay away from it. Focus on skills, focus on building confidence, building good people. Um, if you're in the college space, then yeah, like, if you have a player that's you know, maybe second year they've been going out too much, putting on a little well, too much malt weight, then yeah, you can say that to them. You can weigh them in, you can do their heights and weights where it's age appropriate. You know the pro levels. Especially they probably do a lot of testing, I'm assuming, and that space it's appropriate to talk to women about. You know their athletic body types and how they can improve for for their athletic development. But in youth hockey, stay in your lane, focus on skill development. You know, keep confidence up and build good kids, good kids and good people.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Love it. Well, it's another myth debunked right, that there is no specific top body type that you have to have. But that's going to bring us to our final myth. And again, I appreciate you both answering that question, cause I know there's a lot of dads and fathers, in addition to the mothers and the siblings that listen to this show, that you know might not know necessarily how to ask or not to ask certain questions or what to look for. But the last myth we're going to debunk this is a funny one to me is that girls are harder to coach than boys. I say it's a funny one to me because, first off, I don't care who I'm coaching, but it's like I'm coaching who I'm coaching. There's no difference to me in terms of how I'm doing it, in terms of a difficulty level, but why don't we throw this to you too? Girls are harder to coach than boys. You have the tape.
Speaker 3:Absolute myth. Girls are the best listeners. I think you know I coach a. I coach a 10 year girls team right now and whenever we have power skating coaches or boy, you know boys coaches that coach a 14 year or 12 year boys team. If they work with our girls at any age, they I always get a feedback. That, man, I love coaching the girls. They listen so much better than the boys. They want to learn, they want to be taught, they want you to push them, they want to learn, whereas boys, you know especially like if you're eight, you 10, you, they're out there hitting each other with sticks, they're punching each other in line, they're all over the place.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? That doesn't happen. It totally happens. It absolutely happens.
Speaker 3:The girls- they're not punching each other in line and stuff. It doesn't happen. They're ready to go, they're happy, they're encouraged, they sing songs in the locker room. They just have a great time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I literally took the words right out of my mouth, sherry, the attentiveness is so different. Right now I'm mainly coaching boys and it's like they're slapping pucks everywhere. They can't listen for more than a minute hey, hey, go nice here this.
Speaker 1:It was a bad boy minute. Now we go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're not like the michigans. They did non-stop, oh my they're.
Speaker 2:They're learning how to toe drag while you're trying to teach them power play. It's like what are you.
Speaker 1:I can't deny any of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's um, it's super interesting. Girls are so attentive and especially in the in the youth level, they they're there to learn, they know why they're there. Um, they know the purpose of, of whichever practice you're at in that moment. Um, and they're just like, like I said this way in the beginning, they're just dialed in, like they're just like, okay, here we go, puck. Yep, that's what coach is saying, got it.
Speaker 2:It's like the boys are like all over the place. I had one kid like he wore sunglasses on the ice. I'm like, what are you doing here, like what's going on? And it's like the girl you know. I remember I would always be like if I had these clinics with boys, like I'm on the side and I'm just waiting for the coach to blow the whistle, like to yell at them, and they're all having a party over there. But yeah, it's, it's super interesting. I think girls are very or they just know that it's business that the second they go on the ice like even as Sherry said, like even eight. You like these girls are just like ready to go and they're there to learn. Um, and boys are just dancing around, but not to say that there's no boys who aren't, who aren't attentive.
Speaker 1:Nice save there aren't attentive.
Speaker 3:Nice save there, Hannah. Yeah, Thank you, Thank you. Disclaimer not all boys.
Speaker 2:Disclaimer not all boys, but I think girl I would love yeah.
Speaker 1:I definitely raised my hand when it's girls. This is what I would say, at least in my experience coaching. There are some differences in coaching boys and girls, but I would never qualify a difference as it's easier to coach boys than girls or vice versa. I think that coaching is hard in the best possible way and I think that your ability to adapt and learn and grow, no matter who you're coaching this is nothing to even do with boys and girls, that's on the coach right. So I think that if you think coaching one you know gender is harder than the other, that's probably more of a you problem than it is the people on the ice. But look, let's for the male perspective. No, let's go to Mike, cause Mike has coached, obviously, professional women's hockey and he's he's coached boys hockey at a high level. I mean, mike, have you ever found there to be a be a a difference, or is one easier than the other in your point of view?
Speaker 4:and I I think this falls under the same thing like where are they in their, in their maturation process and and where are they in? Uh, you know, listen, I'll work with a bunch of 16 year old, really serious boys that aren't screwing around, they're listening, they're working, and and I've been with a bunch of 16 year old girls that are like giggling in the corner and and afraid to do something wrong, and I've been on the opposite, like girls that you're like holy crap, like I'd never go in the corner with her, like I'm gonna come out with a broken nose. So it's like it's just a matter of you know, knowing your audience, and I think, and knowing and we've talked about this on the show a couple of times on this particular, you know, on girls hockey is just knowing where you're at, in their space, like okay, if you have a bunch of girls that that are attentive and they're listening and they're able to, you know, maybe concentrate better than other eight-year-old boys, there's, there's a, there's a comedian out there that says, like you know, like I would, like I have a daughter and I had to watch my, my brother's son and it was like, oh my God, nobody prepared me for this Like the same, the same age, the same year of birth, everything the same. And the girl's like, can I sit here? Am I allowed to do this, am I allowed to do that? And the boy's like you know, you know, chewing on the bottom of the group, like if it's like a bunch of nine-year-olds and I'll bring, hey, you know, you know, abigail, you come here and you lead the group and all of a sudden the boys will kind of they'll get, get in there. Cause they'll be like what do you mean? She's leading the group. Why is she leading the group? So it's going to, you know, they kind of fall into line, cause I'm like, well, she's the only one paying attention, like she's in it, like she wants to be in it. So it's just a matter of you know, there's a reason why, like at the learn to play level, I used to put girls in their own group, because it was actually easier for them to learn, because there wasn't somebody out there, just like you know, wanting to whack the back of their legs. You know they'll. That group's doing that over there. Then it just is.
Speaker 4:Now, maybe we make that, maybe we allow that to happen, because maybe I'm, you know, maybe I was in instigating that more, but but there is a definitely there's no doubt. There's a distinct difference. I don't know if it's easier or harder. I know me for a male coach with younger girls.
Speaker 4:I think more about what I say and how I say it, and that's just because I'm an old guy and you know I don't want to say the wrong thing politically, like you know, like, and get somebody upset with me. And I also will say that I'm a, I'm a yeller, I'm a loud, boisterous person when I coach and I couldn't do that with the girls, it was my and a lot of boys. But I couldn't get into a circle and be like and I, you know, and just start yelling and screaming, not in a negative way but in a just a, just a like we got to move kind of way, and I and you just learn to adjust. But you know, listen, some coaches don't learn how to adjust and I think that's where you know. Maybe they think I can't coach these girls.
Speaker 3:It's too hard or a high level Olympic practice. There's no screaming yelling like in the women's hockey, like if they're yelling, it's like at a drill or turn turn, you know, like they're yelling something like that, but definitely not yelling at the player. And I think coaching the girls need to coach with a little bit more empathy, like they do have maybe more emotions in it. You need to be able to recognize, like if a girl's having a bad day, maybe she needs to sit out this rep for a few minutes. Or like if they have anxiety or something like that, like yeah, just sit it out, you know, whereas maybe a male coach is like just get back in the line, skate it out, you're fine, let's go. You know, like I think women, female coaches coaching girls maybe coach with a little bit more empathy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. Look, here's something I'll tell you too. Like a lot of this also just comes from great conversations like this one and learning as much as you can. A great female coach friend of mine one time gave me the advice when it comes to team building and I'll preface this with. This is not necessarily true across the board, but it's something I have found to be congruent to the most part is that when I work with a men's team or a high-level boys team, there's a different approach to the quote-unquote healthy competition and pitting one person against another person, whereas with women's team I tend not to do that. It's more of a collaborative, let's reach the goal together approach, and I found that to be more beneficial. That does not mean women cannot go one-on-one. It doesn't mean anything like that. It just comes down to what am I trying to accomplish from a team building standpoint, right?
Speaker 1:So I think you got to ask questions, you got to try things, but if there's ever been an overarching thought for an episode for me, you know I look at all the myths that we just talked about this is really just about meeting people where they're at right. It's not allowing stigmas and myths to come in of oh, that's a girl, so this, this and this must be true, like no it's. You meet that human being where that human being is at, don't you know, take the boy, girl thing out of it and just see where they're at, see what their goals are, see what they want to do, see what their problems are, see what their concerns are, and meet that person as another person. Sharon, I think that talks right to the empathy thing. Look, I can tell you right now empathy should be across the board, in all sports and all levels and all people, right, if you have a good definition of empathy, right?
Speaker 1:I think sometimes people come with empathy that's weakness, being soft. It's not what empathy is. It's literally meeting someone where they're at. It's like kind of what I'm saying. Right, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I think. I think one thing, too, it came up in my mind where, um, like I think, a lot of players girls and boys, um doesn't matter who um really adhere to certain coaching styles that they like, um, as in like the player from their coach. So many of us, throughout the levels that we go, we meet so many different coaches and so many different coaching styles.
Speaker 3:I feel like almost every single coach has a different style and how they coach their player really gonna, you're really gonna be able to push and that that gets the best out of them. And there's kids you have to just go talk to quietly in the corner and be like, hey, you did really good, but let's try to fix this, you know. So you have to check in, I think individually, with all your players. You know boys or girls, and know what you have and know how to get the best out of each individual player.
Speaker 2:I so agree with that and I feel like I would have loved that from not just my trainer at home, like if I like had my travel coach like do what he would do, like to every single player.
Speaker 2:Like I think that proponent is so huge because kind of knowing who each of your player is and how each of them, you know, really like succeed at being coaching, um, at being coached. Excuse me, I feel like that that will go such a long way and I feel like now too, as as we grow and have as it kind of, like you know, revolves around just like obviously every player is different and every player, you know, is co wants to be coached differently. Like having coaches kind of like step back and like realize, okay, that player doesn't want to talk to me, doesn't like succeed when I pull them to the side, so I'm not going to do that, but that player does. So I'll do that with that player and I feel like that that's like definitely such a a huge thing and is so important to like you know you have a 22 person roster like kind of bring that person personal actions into it, will, you know, super important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we see it here at the NHL level. Just, you know, fortunate enough to get to watch Vegas Golden Knights practices every day and you'll see Bruce Cassidy skate half a lap with one player just checking in, checking in. So yeah, you have to, just you know, check in and your guys. That's a nice Pete Whitney takeaway that I got from post. He was really dialed in on like checking in on all your guys and make sure that no one falls through the cracks, especially when you're coaching like high, you know big rosters of you know college rosters where they're higher player counts, counts, um yeah. And then if you have youth hockey, it's like you only have 14 kids on your team. You also you don't get to see them too much. So if you can you know with the time that you do have with them make a positive impact on them you guys keep name dropping.
Speaker 1:Pete whitney has been on more guest appearances on the show than anybody else.
Speaker 2:Madison packard's been on the show great.
Speaker 1:You know, final, final notes on this, before we kind of round this out, is that, yeah, I always say to parents and players it's kind of across the board, whether you like your coach or not, if a coach is not talking to you like no, no, communication, that's typically not a good thing for either side, right, I would I always tell the players when, when a coach is not focused on you, that's when you should probably be worried, right, because now you're off the radar in a lot of different ways and it could be your fault, could be their fault, could be both your faults, but you, if a coach is on you all the time, you might not like it, it's not necessarily a bad thing, right, it means that they care enough. And I think, hannah, another point you're making this is good across the board as well. It's like relationships, right. The more coaches you have, you'll know how you're motivated, you'll know what type of coaching you like.
Speaker 1:It's important to know that, as a player, to analyze both ways, right, one is okay. I know how to motivate my, I know how to get motivated. I know how a coach can motivate. You can communicate that to a coach, or you can look and see. Well, I don't think that coach is going to provide that, but you can also do some self-reflection on that too, of, okay, I like this, but am I too critical when someone's yelling at me, for an example? Right, like, does that motivate some people? So it's all growing, it's all learning what you like and what you don't like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I, yeah, that's like so important and I and I've realized that, like I said, like throughout my whole career and like one thing that just came up for me I'll say quickly is and you know this has a lot of pros and cons, but I feel, like you said, you know when you notice a coach is not talking to you, there there's been something wrong. We, either on both parties or one of the parties I have heard so many players, you know I've, I've been kind of the person, especially with my hockey ops position. I was, I was very much a person who you know, I I put myself out to the players, being like, if you need anyone to talk to, I'm here, and I would feel, not only at Utica but just like in general and throughout my whole career, I would feel hear players say I'm scared to go talk to coach about this or no, I don't want to bother him, I don't want to bother her, I don't want to be always in their ear, always in there. I will say that there's no problem, just like you said, lee, it's also about relationships, right, we always talk about how communication is so key and I think players have to keep in mind that communication is key.
Speaker 2:If your coach isn't speaking to you, that is your immediate sign. The next day at practice, or Monday after games, or especially if you just had games and your coach didn't even bat an eye at you Monday morning, you need to walk into his or her office and say, hey, I think we need to check in. I really think you know this is what I feel. Uh, I feel this about my play. I want to hear your feedback. A huge thing, too, is feedback, and I feel like a lot of coaches need to be aware of that, because you know it's. It's hard. Right, I've been the player where I'm on the bench and I'm seeing coaches talk to this player nonstop, nonstop, or this player and I'm over there, like okay, like damn, like I would.
Speaker 2:I need to get talked to and right, if, if they're not talking to you, that is your chance you immediately it's hard and it's it's a hard step to take, but having that braveness and having that courage of standing up, walking into the office or sending a text I always a big thing for me was I like to give the coach a heads up being like hey, I really feel like we need to talk. When does the time work for you?
Speaker 1:I think coaches need to establish what the communication structure is right at the beginning. I can tell you this right now if trust and communication aren't there, you don't have a team. I don't care, I don't care who you are, what you know, what you've done If you don't have trust and communication set up within your team, you don't have a team. It has to be there. The other thing I want to note on this and and and and Mike, mike and I talk about this a lot too in the years we've been doing this show is that players and coaches both have to remember this.
Speaker 1:When you're a player, you know for the most part you're going to be wondering whether or not coach is focused on you. It's being a parent. You're only. You're only really watching your kid when you really think you watch your kid more than anybody else on the ice. And the thing is this when you're a coach, more often than not you care about everyone. You care about everyone on this team, but there could be 15 to 20 people on that team, right? It's not always easy to tap each one of them, so that's why communication is so important.
Speaker 1:I think this totally works to that myth topic about coaching girls as well, right it. And I think this totally works to that myth topic about coaching girls as well, right, it's not more difficult it's with any players. You've got to make sure that you know. Like you said it, sherry, like, hey, I care, I'm here, the door's open. Just saying what you said. Hannah, too, the door's always open. I would like for you to text me or email me prior to stepping into that door and screaming your head off, or or, or vent, venting, whatever it is you want to vent, but the door is open that's I just want to add in.
Speaker 3:Add in one thing to parents is have your player get comfortable talking to the coach themselves. You know the parent doesn't need to come talk to the coach after the game, like the kid can ask coaches love that sherry.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? Coaches love it.
Speaker 3:When parents come up, I love it when, when, when kids ask me like coach, how can I get better Right and get them comfortable at a young age talking? You know about their performance and whether it's good or bad. Like coach, can we, can we talk and I think that's going to go a lot long, like longer way with you. Know for the athletes development in their social life, in their professional life, that they get used to talking to adults and not having the parents just mow down the path for them and making everything easy on them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will say this too with my son and my daughter. I challenged them to learn something Right and I always challenge them If you have a question, ask your coach, and I look I'm in a unique position. They always feel like they can ask me and I said, well, some things you can. But for your team, ask your coach and be curious. Ask great questions, you'll get great answers. Go, learn something. You can encourage that behavior. Again.
Speaker 1:I think as adults that's an assumed behavior. Kids don't necessarily work that way. They're in school all day. They're told to sit there and listen and do this. Again, there's a lot of great teachers out there that engage. But my point is you play a role with that, with your kids, to encourage them to ask questions, encourage them to interact.
Speaker 1:So we're going to get off on a completely different episode topic if we don't round this out here. But look, I think we debunked all five myths and I'm sure there's more myths out there For those of you listening in podcast land. If there's more myths, more topics within women's hockey that you want us to debunk or discuss, make sure to email us at team at ourkidsplayhockeycom. This is an open forum, for sure, and I have loved doing these episodes. I'm learning so much, and that's the point, it's having the conversation right. You know, I wish we could look at certain aspects of hockey and say this is the correct way to do this, but most things in life aren't like that either, and that's why we have to have these discussions.
Speaker 1:But, hannah Beckman, you've been a fantastic guest expert panelist. As we say, your career is far from over and I'll say that. You know. Look, I joke all the time with Sherry that you are a trailblazer and Hannah, you're well on your way to that as well. You know, you're like a shining bright light right now with where you're at in the game and again, even as I said with my daughter, you've you've both shine that light on her Right and that's how you grow and that's how things progress forward. But I'm going to give Sherry and Mike any chance to give final thoughts. Hannah, you as well, and I'll close this out.
Speaker 3:No, this is great, hannah. Thank you for being here and, yeah, really enjoying going to be watching you grow the game out in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me both of you, sherry, it's been so cool to like hear all your thoughts, and Mike as well, you. So, yeah, this has been so fun and I can't wait for what's to come.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no great episode. Thanks so much for coming on. And, like I said, this is one of those things where you take these little pieces from all these episodes and compile them and you're in the, in the car ride home and, instead of berating your daughter about how she played, just to find ways to make a make, a better experience.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, that's going to do it for this edition of our girls play hockey. Remember all the episodes available on ourkidsplayhockeycom or wherever you listen to podcasts. But that's going to do it for Mike Bonelli, sherry Hudspeth and Hannah Beckman. I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.
