The Art and Science of Coaching with NHL Legend Mike Keenan

What does it take to coach the greatest hockey players of all time?

In this unforgettable episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, the legendary Coach Mike Keenan joins Lee, Christie, and Mike to share wisdom from a career that spans decades, continents, and championships. From his Stanley Cup victory to managing icons like Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, and Mario Lemieux, Coach Keenan dives deep into the art and science of coaching, team culture, and the importance of developing young players with care and purpose.

🔥 Episode Highlights Include:

•The inspiration behind Iron Mike: My Life Behind the Bench 📚

•How parenting and upbringing shaped some of hockey’s greatest superstars 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦

•Building championship teams through culture, leadership, and trust 🏆

•Why failure is a necessary step in youth development 🚧

•A glimpse into Coach Keenan’s musical side (yes, Iron Mike sings!) 🎶

Whether you’re a parent, player, or coach, this episode is packed with actionable advice, heartfelt stories, and life lessons that go far beyond the rink.

🎧 Tune in now and don’t miss this incredible conversation with one of hockey’s most accomplished and insightful minds!

📖 Check out Coach Keenan’s book: Iron Mike: My Life Behind the Bench

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•0:08 – 0:56: Introduction to Coach Mike Keenan and his legendary career.

•1:11 – 2:04: The inspiration and process behind Iron Mike: My Life Behind the Bench.

•3:21 – 5:26: How Keenan discovered his passion for coaching.

•5:56 – 8:03: The importance of fun and teamwork in youth sports.

•9:59 – 12:10: Developing leadership in players at every level.

•15:35 – 16:48: Why showing players you care is essential.

•19:15 – 21:10: Building resilience in kids through failure.

•47:39 – 49:06: Team bonding and creating a championship culture.

•1:01:48 – 1:03:03: Keenan’s advice for kids pursuing their hockey dreams.

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Transcript

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 0:56]: Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome back to another episode of our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by Christie Casciano Burns and Mike Bonelli. Our guest today has one of the greatest hockey resumes in the game. He is a Stanley cup winning coach, a multi champion Canada cup coach, a KHL Gagarin cup winning coach, an AHL championship coach, and has coached and managed some of the greatest hockey players that have ever lived. Literally too many to name. So we'll just use Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messi and Mario Lemieux as quick examples. His biography, Iron Mike was released recently from Random House Books, is available everywhere and now, yes, you can guess, we all recommend it. Ladies and gentlemen, he's one of the greatest coaches in NHL history. Please join me in welcoming Mike Keenan to the show today. Mike, welcome to our kids. 

Mike Keenan [0:56 - 1:11]: Thank you so much. Lovely to be here with you to share some stories and also talk about hockey with young children as participants and as parents who have children playing hockey. It's great to be with you, Mike. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:11 - 1:33]: It's great to have you. I got to be honest with you, we've all been reading your book here probably for the last couple weeks. So I actually feel like I've been sitting in a room with you having these conversations already for a few weeks because this book is so well written and so conversational. I mean, it's, you know, not my favorite pun, but it's like wine, man. It was really well done. So I appreciate you writing it and I appreciate you sharing your story first off. 

Mike Keenan [1:33 - 2:04]: Well, thank you. And I think Scott Morrison did a super job. It was a real arduous process. It started with Jay Greenberg, who, God bless, passed away early in the process of writing the book. And Scott was monitoring and it was a great friend of Jay's and Scott decided and was really kind enough to pick it up and carry on the project until we come to a finale and got the book out. 

Christie Casciano [2:04 - 2:22]: I'm curious, Mike, what made you want to write this book? There are so many great stories, obviously that you share your career. Amazing. But what motivated you to write this book? What was it that said I got to get this out to the people and put them in people's hands, hands. This book. 

Mike Keenan [2:22 - 3:21]: I think it was Scott Morrison, really, and Jay Greenberg. I was reluctant to, to write the book or tell the stories. I said, who wants to really read about that? And when you go through that process, they poke the bear and more stories come out. And the interesting part of that book or this book is that I could write another one with the stories that I miss. I've been with some of my players recently. Our 30th reunion with the New York Rangers. As Steve Larmor was there telling a story, he turned to me. Did you put that in the book? I said, I've forgotten all about it. So, yeah, it was interesting process as you got into it deeper with Scott particularly doing a lot of research. And we've had a lot of history. I've known Scott since the late 70s, so he had a real grasp on my background and I think that was really helpful. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:21 - 3:52]: Well, we're going to dive into some of the stuff from the book today, but I'm going to let the audience know right now. We're not even going to scratch the surface of everything that's in here. Really recommend you pick this up or grab the audio book. We really enjoyed it. And you know, Mike, I do want to start with this. You wrote early in the book that you got the coaching bug once you were done playing. And I really love the way you kept speaking about that. I wanted to coach, but I wanted to ask you and explore with you what the coaching bug really means and how it wasn't just limited to hockey because it is a calling. 

Mike Keenan [3:53 - 5:26]: Well, I wasn't sure how it really started, but I can tell you, I know exactly the moment. I sort of grasped the idea that I thought I would really enjoy this. As I was coaching lacrosse, I played lacrosse in the Ontario, outside of Toronto, in the Terra region. I was. I was raised in, in Whitby. Oshawa is a big hotbed for lacrosse. So I was coaching the high school lacrosse team. They asked me to coach in Don Mills Collegiate before I went on this to Forest Hill. And at that moment I said, I'm having a lot of fun and enjoying working with these young people and participating with them. I was young. I was 25 or 24 years of age. So I'd. We'd do the five mile run and I would run with them. We would practice. I would practice with them and. But I really enjoyed the smiles on their faces when we were very successful. We won the regional championship. And that to me, I've had a connection with these young people that were learning more about a skilled game, a team game, a fitness, how I could help them improve as athletes and how I could build them into a team and how they could accept different responsibilities and roles. And that was really exciting for me. So that's really where it all started. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:27 - 5:56]: What I love about it Mike, is that I think sometimes, especially with parents and volunteer coaches, there is a misconception that it's all about the hockey and the knowledge of hockey. And don't get me wrong, that obviously plays into being a successful coach. But I love that you said the coaching bug and I love that you did lacrosse, and I love that you talked about it was the connection with the people and the fun that you found. And that. That's really. It's not limited to the sport. Right. That aspect of coaching is really what's powerful. 

Mike Keenan [5:56 - 8:03]: It really is. And parents get a little bit, I think, sidetracked when. When they. They emphasize the importance of winning, particularly with young people, rather than the process of having and enjoying the game and having fun with their teammates and. And all the experiences of travel and competition and. And being a part of a team that works together. So I think those things are very valuable that parents sometimes lose sight of and they become so focused on what their particular son or daughter did that game and how the outcome was part of that, their investment in their time. And it's about the process. It's about the fun. It's about. Particularly when you're talking about children. I coached minor sport and I coached a little bit different, maybe a lot different than when I coach pro. It's a, you know, professionals are getting paid. That's their livelihood. The amateurs, particularly young people, are there to enjoy it. I mean, then you step up where I coach junior, and those kids are trying to make an impression and go to the professional level and. And University of Toronto, that was a completely different set of circumstances. I was a graduate of St. Lawrence University, as you can see, and then University of Toronto, and I played at both schools. So those individuals were enjoying the game as well, because, particularly in grad school, when I was in University of Toronto, they were really focused on their careers and their academics more than the hockey, but they loved to play hockey. So it was the context of parents and people playing and working in different levels in different sports. They have to come to the realization that these children, first and foremost, should be having fun. 

Christie Casciano [8:03 - 8:26]: It's a great lesson for parents to learn. Now, you're giving them this information now before making mistakes. We all make mistakes along the way. I gotta ask you, though, you've had so much success, but not without controversy. So in the book, you're not shy about that either, do you? You look back and do you think, you know, maybe my temperature was up a little too high at times? 

Mike Keenan [8:26 - 9:27]: Well, of course, I. I've often respond to that. Kind of comment that I would maintain the principles that I worked with, but probably we could alter the methodology a little bit. And as you said, the temperature was up to a point where I was my own distraction at times, but that was the competitive fire I had in me. And particularly when you get to the pro level, that was really the essence of my coaching being, was to succeed and to win. And, and I felt as a professional, that's your job, that's your responsibility to the owner, to the fan base, to players that you're coaching. Winning is exceptional and it's very difficult to win. But that was my focus. 

Mike Bonelli [9:27 - 9:59]: Hey, Mike. So I think Lee brought it up in the opening about all these great leaders. Obviously you're one of them, but the, the leaders that helped you on each individual team. Can you talk a little bit about the similarities between and even at the minor level, like just, you know, obviously you have the Mark Messiers and the Wayne Gretzky's and Mary Lemieux, which are great, but what are the attributes that all those leaders had that you found you could use to help you become a better leader, you know, from the coaching perspective? 

Mike Keenan [9:59 - 12:10]: Well, first of all, I was really blessed with great coaches, minor league coaches when I was young. Doug Williams was one of my coaches. He was a high school principal, played for the Whippy Dunlops, which is a senior a division in Canada, won the world championships against the Soviet Union. But he was also a teacher and he inspired me a great deal in terms of giving me the responsibility. He would pull me aside and say, you know, the other players are looking up to you and you're setting an example for all of us, which was a real confidence builder. And then my uncle Bob, my dad's brother also then coached me, who was a very influential coach and built a lot of confidence in my ability to communicate with my teammates. And I went on to junior and played for people that again trusted my ability and then put me in a responsible position or a leadership role that was fostered by my parents, particularly by my mother, that really impacted my career as an athlete and then as a coach. And I think that if you can help young people and some can be identified more than others as leaders, if you can support them and encourage them and make them feel very comfortable in their role and how they impact a team or a group or whatever setting it is, it doesn't have to necessarily be sport. It can be in academics, it can be in art, it could be in music, whatever the case might be. I think that's important to Help develop young leadership skills in people. 

Christie Casciano [12:11 - 12:11]: Great point. 

Mike Keenan [12:11 - 12:14]: Particularly young kids, you know, so we. 

Mike Bonelli [12:14 - 12:18]: Had the whole weekend to, you know, marinate on the fact that we're going to get to talk to Mike Keenan. 

Christie Casciano [12:19 - 12:19]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [12:19 - 13:36]: And I'm in a lot of rinks, right. And I'm. And I think, you know, I start bringing it up because I'm excited. I'm like, well, what would you ask Mike Keenan? You know, and one of the kind of things that, you know, people perceive you to be. Right. Because you're. Because at the professional level, they only know you from what, you know, what scene. From the outside. I think you're Iron Mike. Yeah, Iron Mike. I think the book hits on that. But can you just talked as a coach about the ability, like when did you believe. Or maybe you don't believe this, but the perception of you like not being able to be soft, like, and not be able to be a player's coach. Right. But you were like, I've, you know, I have a great opportunity to be working with a lot of your ex players in the. From, from different aspects of what they're doing now in their lives. And I don't think anybody's ever said you were soft, but you definitely had the piece of you off the like that perception. And what could you say to youth coaches now about balancing that, like being tough, being hard, being a disciplinarian, expecting greatness, but also knowing that you need to, you know, be what you do in the background is. Is only. Is more important than maybe what you look like on the bench. 

Mike Keenan [13:37 - 15:35]: Yeah. That's a public forum when you're on the bench. And it can be displayed in many different ways. Stoic, it can be emotional, it can be controversial, it could be many different aspects. But you also have to have a connection to the individuals and to the people you're working with and the players and show an empathetic trust in them and help them develop as individuals. It's like parenting. Sometimes you have to be firm, sometimes you have to be encouraging and coddling. And it's a skill that involves many aspects of developing human behavior and reading the situation and knowing what is needed in a particular individual and. Or for a team setting at a particular time. And I think that, yes, I was very firm. I set the bar very high, yet I understood human behavior and could impact that process as a group and as individuals when it. Whenever a situation surfaced. And for example, and people may, particularly from Philadelphia, the. The death of Pelle Limberg. You know, I was a real demanding coach, but when that happened, I think that they saw a very empathetic individual that brought an element of compassion to the group. That was very important at a time. 

Lee MJ Elias [15:35 - 16:15]: Too, Mike, that, you know, when we talk about mental health at that time, it's non. Existent. Right. And you can tell in the book, and this is something I really admire about the book, Mike, because again, there's a reputation surrounding you. Right. It's so obvious in the way this book is written, the deep care that you had for your athletes. Right. And that while, yes, you were inspiring them to be the best versions of themselves, I think that's something that really comes through in, in the, in the text here, is that you really cared about these people. This wasn't just about you. It wasn't just about winning, although those are important aspects. You care about your players. And I. I took that out of this pretty heavily. 

Mike Keenan [16:16 - 16:21]: Well, I did. And there was many times where they didn't think I did. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:21 - 16:22]: Right, right. 

Mike Keenan [16:22 - 16:23]: But it's. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:23 - 16:24]: You explain that too. 

Mike Keenan [16:24 - 16:42]: It's a fine line. And I think that that's really an incredibly important part of. Of coaching, particularly young people. You have to show them that you care more than anything else. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:42 - 16:42]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [16:42 - 16:48]: About them. And it's not. Don't show them what you know, show them how much you care. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:48 - 16:49]: Yeah. 

Mike Keenan [16:49 - 16:57]: And, you know, all of us have knowledge about the game and whatever we're doing business, but show them that you care about them. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:57 - 16:58]: And I'm writing that down. 

Mike Keenan [16:58 - 17:00]: You'll get a lot better response. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:00 - 17:04]: Don't show them how much you know, show them how much you care. That's a brilliant quote. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [17:04 - 17:15]: You know, it has a different mindset now. You can't deny that. And looking back at your, what is five decades of coaching, you had to change, right? 

Mike Keenan [17:15 - 17:15]: Yes. 

Christie Casciano [17:15 - 17:18]: Through the years you evolved as a coach. 

Mike Keenan [17:18 - 17:22]: Well, you have to evolve with the generational changes. 

Christie Casciano [17:23 - 17:23]: Yeah. 

Mike Keenan [17:23 - 17:45]: And, you know, to start in the 70s coaching and then still coaching up until now, you have to adjust to the mentality of the different generations, their needs, their. You have to evolve. We're on a electronic machine right now. 

Christie Casciano [17:45 - 17:46]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [17:46 - 18:40]: Enjoying our conversation. But yeah, it's never existed when I started. So, yeah, you have to change and learn as well as a coach more than anything, if you want to continue to impact lives and if you want to impact individuals and teams, you have to make those adjustments yourself, personally, to be able to make those connections. And that's important because generationally, I don't have to explain it to you folks, that they're ongoing changes in young people's lives. And expectations and parenting. You know, I coach the young people that are now parents and grandparents. So that's quite a difference. 

Christie Casciano [18:40 - 18:42]: Very different. Would you want to coach today? 

Mike Keenan [18:43 - 18:56]: I actually just finished coaching in Italy. I was coaching the national team program there leading up to the Olympics for the last two years. Fantastic. 

Mike Bonelli [18:56 - 18:59]: Christie, meant to ask, would you like to coach TENU hockey? 

Lee MJ Elias [19:01 - 19:02]: There are openings. 

Christie Casciano [19:02 - 19:04]: We've got some openings for you. 

Mike Bonelli [19:06 - 19:09]: Some of those kids. Some of those kids could use it. 

Mike Keenan [19:11 - 19:13]: I'll defer that to the younger people. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:15 - 19:48]: You know, Mike, you did just bring this up, and it's a perfect time for this question. You know, another takeaway from the book is how much adversity you faced as a player, as a person, as a coach. But that seem to help you build a tremendous resolve. You just mentioned it. You know, one of the major concerns we hear from our hockey community is how our children may not be developing those resolve skills anymore. How do you think we can incorporate that into our coaching and parenting? You know, not the overprotective aspect, but allowing your kids to fail and deal with that adversity? 

Mike Keenan [19:49 - 21:10]: Yeah, that's really a difficult process right now because that generation or the generations ongoing. And you know, as. As parents, we're responsible for the production of these new generational approaches, if you like. And there's nothing wrong with letting them experience setbacks in order to learn, because life is not going to be an easy ride for anyone and is not an easy ride. There's always setbacks. It's not what happens to you, it's how you respond to what happens to you. And those are in. In both positive and negative circumstances. So that's a real difficult, I think, a real difficult dilemma and. Or situation for young parents today because they want their children to be coddled or they coddle their children to a point where they don't learn about failure. And that's part of life. You have to learn about that to be able to respond properly to difficult situations. 

Christie Casciano [21:10 - 21:28]: I'm so glad you mentioned that. That is such an important lesson for everybody to learn. I always wondered if we could dive into some of those glory days. My kids are dying to hear you talk about Gretzky and Lemieux, that championship team. It must have been a blast to coach them. 

Mike Keenan [21:29 - 22:05]: Well, they were really. This is one thing that you can tell your children. They were really respectful. I was a young, young man in Canada Cup. 87. When I coached that team, I was 36 years old, 37, and they were 26. So I was 10 years older than them. But then Wayne and Mark, they were both 26. Mary, I think, was 20 or 21, but, wow, they were really, really taught. Well, this is a great moment for me to speak about their parents. 

Christie Casciano [22:05 - 22:06]: Okay. 

Mike Keenan [22:06 - 24:27]: And. And Walter Gretzky, Wayne's father, would ride to the arena with me for practice from the hotel, and he would sit in the front seat with me, and he'd be talking about anything that was going on that day, but he'd always turn to me, says, don't treat my son special. He's just one of the team members. I says, Mr. Gretzky is the greatest player in the world. He's not any different than any other player. So Wayne had heard that many times from his father, and as a result, very respectful, very humble. Certainly they have a lot of confidence in themselves and, and they should when they're at that level and have elite athletic ability in the game, particularly the game of hockey. But they're also athletes who are very, very accomplished in other sports. But the. The underlying part of it was that they. They were ready to accept the responsibility of representing their country in this case, which was very, very demanding. The Canadian public expected nothing but gold, and they were ready to put in. In the. Put the. The work into the. Invest the work and invest the. Their abilities with each other to succeed. And. But the. The bottom line is they were. And people have asked me, but what about the superstars? I said, they're the easiest to coach. They just want to have you put them out in the ice at the right time and they'll. They'll thrive on that situation. But the thing that I found amongst them, in all of them, and still even today, they reach out to me, is how respectful they are of the team, of the sport, of their families, and how much they cared, again, about their teammates, as well as their ability to participate and contribute to the success of a group and a team. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:27 - 25:05]: You know, I was going to ask Mike, how did you manage those personalities? But I think what I just heard, and this is so good for audience, is that you didn't have to, because the parenting had already prepared them to be that level of respectful to understand those situations. And I think that might be a huge statement for our audience and us included in that. Right. Is that as parents, we play the major role in allowing our kids to be coachable and to make sure that they. They manage those egos and manage those situations, and that makes a coach's life easy. I mean, the coach has a responsibility, obviously, as well, but would you agree with that? 

Mike Keenan [25:06 - 25:39]: Yeah, I Think that's really important. And, you know, sometimes we have to educate the parents and be part of that process because they get so involved with their children that they lose sight of. They don't have the perspective that they should have in terms of guiding them through this process, because it's not an easy thing to accomplish to be a professional athlete. Now, I'm talking about the best of the best. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:39 - 25:40]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [25:40 - 27:28]: And it started with their parenting. I can tell you about Mark Messe's family as well. Same thing. He had both. Both those feet on the ground at all times. And he was so inclusive as a leader with everyone in the locker room. From the fellow that would bring in this. The hockey sticks, from some company or the fellow was in there, it was shining shoes for the players. It didn't matter. They were all. They all felt that they had a super role and that they were super important. And if there's anything that we all can learn from them. And I did as well how inclusive they were with everyone that was in the locker room. And also the. The fan base, they appreciated how much they were supported by the fan base. So I think we learned that. And. And Wayne and Mark taught me a lot about enjoying the fact that when you win, you can relax and enjoy it for at least five minutes. Because I was. I had that personality where I'd start preparing for the next game. Like if one second after the game's over, now I'm thinking about the next game. They would say, mike, just relax for a half hour, and then you can start worrying about the next game. So the joy of winning and the agony of defeat. They took their professionals and they wanted to succeed, but they understood that setback would have to be reset and focus on the next possibility. 

Christie Casciano [27:28 - 27:48]: Right. And that's so important for all of us to remember because we're always worried about what's next. Right. Sometimes you just have to live in a moment and savor those victories. Well, let's talk about the pinnacle of hockey, the Stanley Cup. Was that the most celebrated moment of your hockey coaching career? 

Mike Keenan [27:49 - 28:24]: Yeah, I would think it would be, yeah. And particularly how difficult it was to win. I was fortunate. In nine years I was in the league, had already been to the standicop four times, the final Four, three other times. So when Mark, which was unexpected, skated over, was skating at me with a cup, and I was wondering what he was doing, and then he handed me the cup, and I instantly raised it, as you saw in the book, a. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:24 - 28:27]: Picture right here for the people watching it, just exactly moment. 

Christie Casciano [28:27 - 28:28]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [28:28 - 28:54]: It was. Yeah, it was really surreal. Incredible that he had the presence in all of that celebratory moments to acknowledge. And I was really humbled by the fact that he gestured or did that it never had happened in the history of the NHL. And I don't know if it's happened since. 

Christie Casciano [28:54 - 28:55]: I don't think so. 

Mike Keenan [28:55 - 29:27]: But he. Again, that inclusiveness and he writes, and he's very generous in writing the forward in the book that he mentioned that we wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the coach and. And the coaches. So that was a really emotional and. And a moment that you'll. You never forget. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:27 - 30:06]: I do got to bring this up real quick because. Because I read this in your book. It was in the acknowledgments. All right. I think it's important for parents to hear this. All right. You say in the book that the birth of your daughter was the only thing, really, that trumped this Stanley Cup. And the reason I'm bringing that up is that parents, if you wanted to know what a Stanley cup championship feels like, you experienced it with the birth of your child. I. I joke about that sometimes because I. So many of us dream of that. Right. Growing up as parents or as hockey fans. And I. I think it's important we remind everybody that you've experienced something better than that already in your life with your children. Don't forget that. 

Mike Keenan [30:07 - 30:16]: Well, I think that, again, through that particular process, you don't take it for granted for sure. And that's important. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:17 - 30:18]: Absolutely. 

Mike Keenan [30:18 - 30:22]: You know, life is not to be taken for granted. 

Christie Casciano [30:22 - 30:40]: Right. Hey, can we talk about the other part of your life that a lot of people might not know about? And if you're from Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, you know about Nick and the nice guys. And if you go to the middle of Mike's book, he includes a song that you wrote. What? 

Mike Keenan [30:40 - 30:41]: What? 

Christie Casciano [30:41 - 30:43]: Tell us about this other side of. 

Mike Keenan [30:43 - 31:20]: Your life, the soft well that goes back to St. Lawrence University. And my. I think it was my sophomore year. A fellow named Gary Webb from Burlington, Ontario, who now lives in Rochester, actually Victor, which is outside of Rochester, he became. He was an accomplished musician, and at 14 years of age, he backed up Harry Belafonte. Some of the younger people would know who Harry Belafonte is. At Expo. Yeah. At Expo 67, I think it was. 

Christie Casciano [31:20 - 31:21]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [31:21 - 31:32]: And Gary's just a young musician. So we were in the. Hanging out in the locker room one day and practice, and he says, why don't we start a band? 

Christie Casciano [31:32 - 31:33]: Wow. 

Mike Keenan [31:33 - 33:54]: And it was interesting that the hockey players. One fellow who I was raised with, Eric Sanford, he could play the bass and he also could play the drums. And Ron Harris, also a hockey player from Canada, could play the drums. So Eric learned to play the bass upside down because he's left handed. Gary could play the lead guitar or any instrument you wanted, and Ron was the drummer. And so it just grew from there. And then we started to a point where it was a distraction. I'd have to tell them I was one of the captains of the team. I'd say, guys, stop talking about the music. Let's talk about the game. And then after the game we'll talk about the music. Because then we started after games, we started playing at sororities and fraternity fraternities and on campus parties and then up at an A Bay, Alexandria Bay, and. And then different parts of. And then it expanded from there and then it was dissolved. And then I ended up going to Rochester to coach the Americans American Hockey League. And Gary happened to be a partner in, I think it's called Deloitte and Touche or Touche and Deloitte accounting firm. He was accountant, his wife Pam was a lawyer. And he said, why don't we start the band again? So we started the band again and the Eastman School of Music is right there. So it was easy to get musicians for young people. And Gary quit his partnership and just started to focus on music again and built this empire. Nick and the nice guys in the vignettes of Nick Blues Nick Country Nick Orchestra. So it was. And it still exists today. He's done a super job making a business as well as. So anyway, get back to your question was he came down to see me in, in Key west and we were watching a Super bowl and I have no idea why this happened, but I just stood up and went to the counter, kitchen counter, and I said, gary, just give me a minute. And I wrote the song. 

Christie Casciano [33:54 - 33:55]: Isn't that something? 

Mike Keenan [33:55 - 34:05]: It was like. I don't know where it came from. It just came out of my head that is so long. What it had to do with the Super Bowl, I have no idea. 

Christie Casciano [34:05 - 34:15]: But see, I think that's a part of you that few people even know about. You know, you've got this music inside of you too, and this creative aspect, not just this. 

Mike Keenan [34:15 - 34:21]: Well, I'm also proud of this. The. I wrote some poetry. And there's one. 

Christie Casciano [34:21 - 34:22]: Yes. 

Mike Keenan [34:22 - 34:34]: So that those also just came out of the blue. I'd be sitting there and all of a sudden start to write some poetry. I. I don't know where it comes from. Maybe there's an artistic side of something. 

Christie Casciano [34:34 - 34:35]: I think so. 

Mike Keenan [34:35 - 34:36]: I don't know. 

Christie Casciano [34:36 - 34:39]: Well, you have to be to be a coach too. I think you've got to have that. 

Mike Keenan [34:39 - 36:48]: Creativity, art and science of coaching is impacted by the mathematical part of it. I started. Maybe it'd be interesting for you to listen to this. Maybe I wrote it in the book, I can't remember, but when I had the superstars in the room in 87 and the. I tried to figure out, how am I going to figure this out for these guys to accept roles that they're all playing major roles on their teams, but they can't all play major roles. So I asked them how many minutes there were in a hockey game. And Larry Murphy jumps up and says, of course. Everybody says there's 60. I said, no, there's actually 720, 360 minutes Distributed by each team. And it's your responsibility as a coach to. To distribute those 360 minutes. You start with a goalie or goalies. Depends on how the game's going. They get 60. And then you have to figure out how you're going to disperse the other 300 minutes and your responsibility at an elite level, then it's to know how the other coach is going to disperse his 300 minutes. When are those players coming out? How many minutes are they going to play? You're playing against Pittsburgh. How many minutes is Sidney Crosby going to play and what minutes are they? And so that's the mathematical part of it, and then the artistic part of it is to have a feeling, which I was very blessed to have that skill, to know exactly when an individual is really on top of his game. Because we're not always on top of our games every day. We're all human and we fluctuate. So your ability to read that and to read the situation and to read the context of what's going on in particularly at that moment is the art side of it. So it's the art and science of coaching. That's what you asked me the question initially. 

Christie Casciano [36:48 - 36:49]: That's so fun. 

Mike Keenan [36:49 - 36:52]: That was also very, very exciting for me. 

Mike Bonelli [36:52 - 36:53]: Yeah, yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:53 - 37:47]: Well, it's a symphony, right? Like, like. And here's the thing. You can't. You can't be part of a symphony if you only know one instrument. You have to understand what everybody's doing. You can't. You can't be a conductor by only knowing one instrument. And Mike, one of the things we talk about all the time on this show, specifically for the Kids is that you have to be more than just a hockey player. You have to look beyond that identity, especially when you're young and you want to explore the arts or something else, whether it's music or writing. There's a thousand different applications here, but the creative nature of music, of, again, writing the arts, I think that's an important skill set, too. And also, again, you know, to help you identify beyond just, okay, I'm a left winger or I'm a forward on this team, right? Like. Like you want to be great at stuff, you got to experience other things both in the game and outside the game. 

Mike Keenan [37:48 - 40:11]: Well, I'll speak to that a little bit in. In generational again. And parents, if parents are listening, I'd like to listen to this, because today the young child is. I don't know. The right word is pigeonholed. But he's a hockey player, and he goes to summer school and plays hockey or learns to skate, plays hockey. And I felt was important when I was a youngster, and I feel it's important today. And even I'll reflect upon Wayne Gretzky's growing up to play many sports. I mentioned. I played lacrosse, I played baseball, I played soccer, I played. I ran track and field, besides hockey. And I loved hockey. Don't get me wrong, I loved it. But I think you learn a lot by investing yourself in different games and then different arts and music and whatever you could be impacted. My dad played the drums, so, you know, I was around the drummer. I was around a pipe band. And I don't know if people know what a pipe band is, but young people, I don't know if they know what the pipe band would be. So you're impacted. And I think that you learn different skill sets, and certainly in the sporting world, you learn a lot about your athletic ability, your athleticism, your preparation. They all demand different skill sets to be prepared to play in that particular game or. Or to participate in music or to participate in a theater. I was around theater in high school as well. I sang solo to the high school Danny Boy one year. I don't know how I did all this stuff, but it was. It was, you know, an Irish background. So St. Patty's Day, they asked me to sing A Danny Boy to the high school. So on stage. So, you know, different experiences that impact you. You have no idea what they mean to you. 

Christie Casciano [40:12 - 40:14]: As an Iron Mike singing Danny Boy. 

Mike Bonelli [40:14 - 40:18]: Who would have guessed? I want to see that. I want to see that video. I want to see that video. 

Mike Keenan [40:18 - 40:23]: Thank God. Thank God. Video Cameras around at the time. 

Mike Bonelli [40:23 - 41:18]: I think, Mike, you brought up, you know, going back earlier a little bit about like the symphony of coaching and you know, and we have a lot of, obviously we have parents listening with players. Can you talk a little bit about like, like how we have, like we perceive it as. Well, I'm just watching my kid, like I'm watching my son out there or daughter doing their thing and I want to know why the coach isn't using my son and daughter the right way. Can you just talk about like, you know, just give a little insight on the fact that, well, you're, you're not focused on that son or daughter. You're not focused on Wayne Gretzky. You're focused on how am I going to put all these pieces together so that I can get Wayne Gretzky on the ice when they don't have, you know, another player. Can I make sure that, you know, this guy's on the ice when, when that team's not using their best player? I mean, and just talk about, you know, how you look at it from a coaching perspective, understanding that you do care about the kids ice time and want to get everybody included, but maybe just talk about that little juggling act a little bit. 

Mike Keenan [41:19 - 43:48]: Yeah, it's part of the coaching acumen and responsibility. And again, at different levels, at the amateur level, I think you try to disperse the ice time as well as you can and there's something to be, to be taught in terms of learning to play and then playing and then winning. And I think those are all different parts of what transpires at various levels. You're talking about a, a four year old, which I was when I learned to skate. And you're learning to skate and you're playing on pawns and there are no rules. You just play and then you get structured into a team. And now you have to understand that I'm a forwarder, I'm a defense or I'm a goalie and I have teammates and I'm part of what the coach is trying to, to work with. And there's different components and different abilities and I'm a great shot blocker, but I can't score worth beans or I'm a great scorer, but I don't know anything about back checking and all the components of what makes this game for me the most spectacular game in the world because of the speed and the complexities. And it's not like baseball, you run out of bounds or football, you run out of bounds. Basketball, you run out of bounds. There's no running out of bounds. Either get back to the bench or you're going to get run into a wall or get hit into a wall or you run out of space. So it's dealing with all those. Your mind has to be focused on the spatial aspect of that context of what you're playing in, particularly when you are inside an arena. If you're out in the pond, that's a different story. But the coach is trying for the most part, if they're, if they've got the right focus, if they want their children to enjoy the game, then there should be distribution of ice time almost equally. And then as you get into more competitive levels, then some of the aspect is to teach him how to win, which is difficult. It requires a lot different mindset. 

Mike Bonelli [43:49 - 43:50]: Unless you're Alexey Kovalov. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:50 - 43:50]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [43:50 - 43:52]: Then you just give him as much ice time as you want. 

Mike Keenan [43:52 - 43:53]: Exactly. 

Christie Casciano [43:54 - 44:09]: What do you think, Mike, about the skill level today as you're watching these players and we're seeing moves like we've never seen before. It's such a faster, just intense game. And the level of skating, it's, it's remarkable, isn't it? 

Mike Keenan [44:09 - 46:27]: Well, it really is. But I was fortunate to have the best of the best. You know, I put Wayne Gretzky skating or Mark Messi skating or Mary Lemieux skating or Raymond Bork or Paul Coffey up against any of these kids today, Connor McDavid. So on one of the best skaters in the world. And yeah, they have a skill set I don't see until the playoffs. And I'm hoping that there'll be kind of a resurgence of it, of the competitive values that I saw. If you go Back to our 94 Stanley cup game seven, it was vicious. And I'm not saying that that's the way the game should be played, but it was vicious, hard, competitive, physical, mean. And the NHL I watched today, they're certainly skilled, but I don't see that aspect and maybe that's the way it should be played, I don't know. And, and you know, I evolved as a coach understanding that. But I'll go back to the example now of the last standing up champion was Florida Panthers and they played more old school than new school. And there might be a pushback because it's at the NHL professional level. Monkey see, monkey do, excuse the expression. So they, there might be a pushback to be more competitive in terms of their preparation than, than a higher skill set. And a good example that they're playing against the Edmonton Oilers with the Best hockey player in the world. And, you know, we. You can get into bench management. I don't know if you remember the game, but Connor McDavid in the final game, never got on the ice till six or seven minutes into the game because he didn't start the game. Then they had. They had to kill off a penalty. Just doesn't do the penalty killing. So now he. The best player in the world's not on the ice for six or seven minutes. So that's the mathematics of it. I mean, Mark Messi started every game we played. 

Mike Bonelli [46:27 - 46:34]: So, yeah, get him out. Get him out there first and establish the establishment again. 

Mike Keenan [46:34 - 46:44]: There's a point. Make the opponent play into your hand, not you play into their hand. So lots of mathematics involved in that. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:44 - 46:45]: That's the chess of hockey. 

Christie Casciano [46:45 - 46:46]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:46 - 47:39]: You know, Mike, another part of that chemistry, that symphony, is something that I'm enthralled with and obsessed with. It's just team building, team bonding. And I think there were. There were several coaches that were ahead of the curve on this. You know, I think about Fred Shiro, Anatoly Tarasov, you know, Herb Brooks, and I've always put you into a bucket with those guys. As someone who understood the importance and had a clear understanding of what a team bond should be and how vital that is to winning, and in fact, you state that in the book. You know, many of the decisions you make throughout your career had that in mind. I don't believe even today that that's a concept that's as widely understood as someone believe. Can you tap into how that team bond correlates directly to championship culture? And again, you kind of alluded to this a few minutes ago. 

Mike Keenan [47:39 - 48:33]: Well, it's a synergism of it all. The energy, the skill set can be greater as a group than it can be as an individual. And the more that you're able to capture that, to have that energy come out, and it sounds a little weird or different, but to have those energies come together and develop a force, develop a personality as a team collectively caring so much for each other that I think is the essence of building an ultimate and championship team. And teams. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:33 - 49:06]: And you did that. No, it is like it's. When we look at your. At least we'll talk about, beyond your NHL career, the speed at which most of these teams came together and really found, you know, winning. Right. It didn't always result in a Stanley cup, obviously, but what you did with the Flyers, you just happened to come up against the greatest dynasty, probably in sports. You did it with New York, you know, you, you, you, you did it with Chicago. I mean, you did it in Russia. You know, it, it just seemed. And, and with speed. Right. It wasn't a ten year process. 

Christie Casciano [49:06 - 49:07]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:07 - 49:53]: And I always, again, just from the words you wrote, you were willing to move players that were not willing to buy into that system or the standard or whatever, you know, however you want to quantify it. So I think that's a huge lesson that, especially when I think about youth coaching, you know, there's a responsibility on the organization as well for the coach to develop that force, as you put it, that identity. Because that plays into winning. If you're just going out there and throwing your best two, three players out there all the time, which I've seen, I mean, you're missing the point. That's not a recipe for success all the time. Right. So I think if you're in a competitive environment in hockey, or even not competitive. Right. I think that developing that identity, that team bond which you've done is essential if you want to win. 

Mike Keenan [49:54 - 49:57]: I think it can be described also as culture. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:57 - 49:58]: Yeah. 

Mike Keenan [49:58 - 50:22]: And that builds an expectation that all players must contribute regardless of what their role is. If a guy's playing, and I'm talking about pro now, if he's playing five minutes, those five minutes are just as important as Wayne Gretzky's 25 minutes. Because if he doesn't do his job in those five minutes, the team isn't going to be successful. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:22 - 50:23]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [50:23 - 51:23]: So to get them to understand that first of all and then to buy into it and to accept it, and that was probably the main component of all championship teams that I coached, that there was no selfish components. They had sometimes had to learn to accept their role. It was maybe little bit less than they wanted or sometimes was greater than they wanted. They excelled and built themselves into a role that was even greater than they expected. So that, that bonding, if you like, process is extremely, extremely important for a team to succeed. This is a team sport. We're not playing tennis, we're not playing golf. Were playing hockey, which is a team sport. 

Mike Bonelli [51:23 - 52:21]: Yeah. I'm wondering how you would, how would you, how would you would live in the world of the portal now, you know, with college hockey and, you know, the fact that if a player doesn't like their role, they just go into the portal and they go to a team that will let them play the role they want to play. Right. So how hard it is even at the professional level now, I mean, there's, there, it's, it's really sneaking in. It's in there, right, where a player's agent just calls and says, I need that player moved and he's gonna go play. He wants to play this role. So, I mean, do you think it's, you know, knowing, you know, knowing that you've gone from the NHL to now going to a different, you know, that, that culture. Right. Of Italy. Right. So you're in Italy, and do you find it easier and say, well, wow, these players are looking at me like, oh, my God, like, this is Mike Keenan, you know, that's with me here today. So I acclimating to. To Mike Keenan or you still fighting that battle to get those players to understand that they have to play a certain role to compete against the best, you know, the best, you know, systems in the world. 

Mike Keenan [52:22 - 54:02]: I think it's, again, that's, you know, now you're talking about cultural differences in society. And one of the easiest groups that I ever coached was in Russia because they had a different mentality about the importance of the coach. Wow. The coach is revered there, at least. Again, when I went there, they knew who I, who I was and where I came from. But that went back to 87, because the Soviet Union, who never broadcast games, broadcasted those games in the Soviet Union in 1987. Those kids were just being coddled by their parents who were watching me. They, they, they, they were too young to. But so that cultural differences again, and I will speak to that. When I went to Russia, I, Mike Plino, assistant coach of mine and associate coach and a player that played for me in junior and also university, and I said, the most important thing for us to do when we arrive there is to understand, not to be understood, for us to understand their culture, their mentality, their approach to living, their approach to the game, their approach to society, their approach to each other. And as soon as we were able to comprehend and understand that, we became very successful very fast. 

Christie Casciano [54:02 - 54:03]: Yeah. 

Mike Keenan [54:03 - 55:30]: And that's incredible experience. Yeah, yeah. But that, that is to sort of address what's going on in North America. Today is a different set of circumstances, and you have to have the ability to gain the respect of the individuals so that they don't want to say, oh, you're not playing me the way I want to play, so I'm going to leave. You have to have them embrace the fact that, you know, you can stay and we can really build something special here and you can celebrate success and learn about winning. And, yeah, you can go over to the plan or team B and be a superstar. But you'll maybe you'll never experience winning or the camaraderie or the love that you have for a teammate there, because you're just focused on yourself. And that to me is. And some of it's done. Driven financially. They think they can go somewhere else and make more money. And I understand that as well. But those are choices we make. And for me, I was really fortunate to have people and players that wanted to buy into success rather than not. 

Christie Casciano [55:31 - 56:24]: So that's really important to develop that team culture, that mindset, and I think it's important for all coaches to listen to that piece of advice. And that's one of the reasons you can point to having success so quickly, because as Lee mentioned, your success wasn't over decades. It came quickly for these teams. And I think that's a key component is that culture. Now, this transfer portal, like you mentioned, is kind of messing up college sports big time. Our college coach at Syracuse University just had said he was pretty upset about some of these kids jumping in the transfer portal, calling them snakes. But that's the problem is what are you teaching these kids? What. What incentive do they have to stay other than money? You got to have that culture. If you want to play for me, buy into it. We're going to have a winning, successful team. 

Mike Keenan [56:24 - 56:31]: Yeah, I think that's a difficult choice. And its influence, again, we're going back to parenting. 

Christie Casciano [56:31 - 56:32]: Yeah. 

Mike Keenan [56:32 - 57:40]: I mean, if you accept a scholarship at Syracuse and you go there and you should try to contribute to that team that you have been given the opportunity to be a part of and people are paying your schooling, rather than saying, ah, this hasn't worked for me. I can go to some other university and be a superstar or get more floor time. I'm from basketball player or play different positions. But again, it's influence also. And you brought the word up agents, they take the approach that they have the responsibility to make that individual the most money that they can, because now there's. They're sort of in a professional realm rather than a academic university setting. Because this opening now in sponsorship that you've got young athletes at the university making millions of dollars from sponsorships. So it's. 

Christie Casciano [57:40 - 57:40]: Right. 

Mike Keenan [57:41 - 57:47]: It's a completely different animal right now and they have to sort that out. Right. 

Christie Casciano [57:47 - 57:51]: It's tough to put the genie back in the bottle, but hopefully we can control it somehow. 

Mike Bonelli [57:51 - 57:54]: That's a whole nother episode. That's a whole other episode. 

Lee MJ Elias [57:54 - 57:58]: That's an anthology series, not just another episode. 

Mike Bonelli [57:58 - 58:03]: How do we pick 8U? Hockey. Geez. It's, it's, it's crazy. 

Lee MJ Elias [58:03 - 59:01]: Well, I think the key takeaway, Mike here from, from this last bit of conversation is like whether you're in Russia, China, America, Italy, you know, north, south, east, west, culture is important. And having your players buy into that culture, Right. Is part of the things that a coach or an organization can help build. And when that culture is stronger than what, what you want, when it's what we want over what you want, not only are you going to attract better people, right, but you're going to have a better product, you're going to have a better process, a better team. And I think that that's something that it goes so far beyond hockey. Right. I think that human beings are meant to work together. And I think that a lot of the stuff going on, especially, you know, in North America, is driving us away from that belief. That's something I'm pretty, you know, passionate about bringing back in my coaching, in my parenting and in my daily life is, you know, we need to learn to work together again, because miraculous things come from that. 

Mike Keenan [59:02 - 1:00:19]: I can give you another example, and I don't know if people would really know about it, but living in China, they had a rule in the country that you could only have one child for many, many, many years. So what I found there was that these individuals that came from a single family were developed by six adults, were cared by six adults, their parents, and then the two grandparents on each side. And they had very little team skills. They didn't know how to communicate with other individuals. They were all single child, single children. Now, not to say that every single child or families only have one child, but when you have a whole country is like that. It's a different mentality. And to bring them together in a team sport is a real challenge because they're. It's not their fault. They're just not used to it. They don't know what that means. And they have to be taught. You can be taught, but there's a learning curve involved. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:19 - 1:00:39]: Well, it's a tremendous example of how culture is not a linear path. It changes, it's different. Upbringing plays into parenting, grandparenting, coaching, you know, environment. All of this plays into to how culture is developed. And that environment plays out. 

Mike Keenan [1:00:39 - 1:00:45]: Well, there really is. And you're a product of two things. You're your DNA and your environment. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:46 - 1:01:04]: Right. So you can control one of them for the most, for the most part, anyway. Yeah. Right, right. It was very little that all of us have control over. That's one of the big Awakening moments I always have with my players and other people is you control almost nothing in this world and very little in your own life. 

Mike Keenan [1:01:04 - 1:01:05]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:06 - 1:01:47]: Mike, in the few minutes we have left, I'd actually love for you to talk directly to the kids that listen to this show. And we have a really large audience of young youth hockey players. And where I want to direct that, that question or that those thoughts. As we've said it, you've managed some of the greatest players of all time. You've also managed just hockey players and people in general. You've had to manage people in a band. You've had to manage people in college. For the kid out there that's listening, that kid's dream is the NHL or to play hockey at a high level. You've seen it. What is your guide for that kid on this journey? What do they need to keep in mind? What do they need to keep doing to make that opportunity a possibility? 

Mike Keenan [1:01:48 - 1:03:03]: I think that there's a few things, but a couple would be, first of all, you have to have faith in your beliefs, in your passion and what you want to accomplish in life. And secondly, you have to work. Nothing is free. You can be the most talented, and if you are the most talented. And again, we cite the people that I coach that were. But they also knew how to work and how to get prepared and how to be better. You know, from the Wayne Gretzky's, the Mary Lemieux, the Mark Messi's, and it goes on. In all the hall of Famers I coached, they knew how to work. They had a talent and they had a passion and they cared. But they had to learn how to discipline themselves and work at what they wanted to accomplish. And whether it's music, art, it doesn't matter. Whether you're a technician, a plumber, fireman, doesn't matter. If you want to be the best that you can be, then you have to have that idea that you have to be devoted to developing those skill sets or that ability, whatever it takes. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:03 - 1:03:05]: I love that. 

Mike Keenan [1:03:05 - 1:03:32]: And at the same time, if it's a passion, then it doesn't seem like work. It seems like, like you're loving what you're doing. So. Right. That's all part of. If you can find that niche that really excites you and you're passionate about, then you should make it happen. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:33 - 1:05:19]: Well, and I love that you led with, with, with faith on that because the faith is also within yourself. Right. And for the kids listening, it can be very easy to look outside yourself or that need for Other people to believe in you. But Mike, you just kind of said it. The real person that needs to believe in you is you. That comes from within you. So for the kids listening, you know, like you have to be inspired by what coach just said there. But the idea is this, if you want to accomplish anything, this, this is not just for hockey. What Mike is saying here, you've got to find that feeling within you to get up and put that work in. And here's the other thing, kids. There's no guarantees. There's no guarantees that, that what you want will become a come to fruition. But I promise you that if you put the work into the time in, not only will you get way further than anybody thought possible, but you will learn so much about yourself and who you are and what you can accomplish that is so important. So I'm going to say it again. Faith in yourself. Faith in general, obviously very important. You have to believe in something bigger than yourself, but you got to believe in yourself. And Michael, you know, I'll tell you just quick story. We were actually in Lake Placid, a place I know you're very fond of, and, and we were in a tournament. I was so proud of these kids and I want the, the parents to listen to know this too, that are listening. These kids were 10 years old, so we're not talking 18, 17. These are 10 year old kids. And before a big game, the messages were, you know, as hard as we work, there's someone out there working harder than us. We got to be those guys today. And then another kid stood up and said, you know, as, as hard as we're going, we got 40% more than we think we do. Those were the messages these kids were giving themselves at 10 years old. I was so proud of that locker room before that game. 

Mike Keenan [1:05:19 - 1:05:19]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:19 - 1:05:28]: And after the game, obviously. But the wherewithal to understand we need to work. We need to work to accomplish our goal. So Mike, I love that you brought that up. 

Mike Keenan [1:05:29 - 1:05:53]: Well, it's that easy. And for the kids to, to realize it and to understand it takes, it takes education takes time. You know, I was very passionate and wanted to be an NHL player, but I didn't have the ability in the end. But I found another way of, of getting there. So yeah, as you. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:53 - 1:05:54]: Your backup plan worked. 

Mike Keenan [1:05:55 - 1:06:10]: Yeah, yeah, there's no guarantees. So if it doesn't work in plan A, then you at least you've prepared yourself and you've developed some skills that gives you a chance at plan B or C, whatever the case might be. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:06:10 - 1:06:36]: Well, Mike, this has been a real honor. Not just a great interview, but a real honor to have you on. I do want to plug the book one more time. Iron Mike, My Life behind the Bench. If you're listening to this podcast, and, Mike, this is the audience that would love this. Pick this up, get the audiobook, whatever. You will not be disappointed. This was an enjoyable read. I'm going to say it again. I felt like we were sitting with you for several weeks. In reading this book, you can tell all three of us. Ready, right? Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [1:06:36 - 1:06:55]: Like a hockey encyclopedia. Full disclosure, Mike, I was really nervous about you coming on and interviewing you because, you know, you're Iron Mike, right? But what a joy you are. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your advice, your experiences, and very inspirational conversation today. 

Mike Keenan [1:06:55 - 1:07:01]: Thank you. And I hope that you continue your good work with the children, because that's important. They need the guidance. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:02 - 1:07:14]: Thank you, sir. All right, that's going to do it for this edition of our Kids Play Hockey with Mike Keenan. An honor, a tribute, a gentleman and a scholar and a musician. We'll see you on the next episode. 

Mike Keenan [1:07:15 - 1:07:15]: Not really. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:16 - 1:07:18]: We're gonna. There's. There's music in the book. 

Christie Casciano [1:07:18 - 1:07:20]: To sing Danny Boy. At least the opening line. 

Mike Keenan [1:07:20 - 1:07:24]: You know, I'm a great. I'm great at turning the radio on. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:25 - 1:07:41]: We could have gone viral, Mike. All right, guys, listen. That's going to do it for this episode. Remember, if you have a question or a comment, find the link in the description of this episode. You can text us or email us at team atourkids playhockey.com. but for Christie, for Mike. For Mike Keenan, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next episode of our. 

Mike Keenan [1:07:41 - 1:07:43]: Thank you, folks. Ciao. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:43 - 1:08:11]: We hope you enjoyed this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value. Value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our Kids Play Hockey dot com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops atwhen hockey stops dot com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.