More Than a Hockey Player – Building Self-Worth and Mental Toughness with Danielle McDonough

How do young athletes build confidence, resilience, and a strong mindset both on and off the ice? This week on Our Kids Play Hockey, we welcome Danielle McDonough, former professional hockey player, mindset coach, and author of The Empowered Athlete.

Danielle shares her incredible journey from playing boys’ hockey in Southern California to earning a full scholarship at Providence College, playing professionally in the NWHL and Switzerland, and ultimately transitioning into mental performance coaching. She discusses the mental challenges young athletes face, including anxiety, pressure, and self-doubt, and provides actionable strategies to help players, parents, and coaches develop mental toughness and confidence.

In this episode, we cover:

🏒 Danielle’s journey from youth hockey to professional play

🧠 The importance of mindset training in sports and life

💡 How visualization, self-awareness, and breathing techniques help athletes perform under pressure

🚗 The “car ride home” conversation – what parents should (and shouldn’t) say

🔑 Why mental skills training is just as important as physical training

This episode is packed with golden nuggets for players, parents, and coaches who want to support young athletes in their development—not just as hockey players, but as confident individuals.

📖 Check out Danielle’s book, The Empowered Athlete, for even more tools on self-confidence, self-acceptance, and self-worth in sports.

🔊 Listen now! 

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Transcript

Danielle McDonough [0:00 - 0:00]: Foreign. 

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:28]: Friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another episode of our Kids play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias. I'm joined by Christy Casciano Burns, my good friend and our guest today has dedicated her career to helping athletes strengthen one of the most important aspects of the game, their mind. Danielle McDonough began her hockey journey at the age of five, eventually earning a full athletic scholarship to Providence College, where she captained the team during the 200405 campaign. And after college, she played professionally in the NWHL for two years before continuing her career in Lugano, Switzerland. She transitioned from player to coach, and Danielle obtained a master's degree in sports and exercise psychology and founded Peak Performance Training as a mindset coach. She works with athletes, coaches, and parents to help develop the mental skills necessary for success. She's also the author and of course, we have it here, if you're watching, of the Empowered athlete. Self confidence, Self Acceptance and Self Worth and athletes Guide. And it truly is a guide to excellence. It's a book designed to help athletes build confidence and resilience on and off the ice. It's something that is so needed right now, not just in hockey, but it's a hockey show, so we're going to keep it there. We're excited to dive into Danielle's unique journey, her approach to mental conditioning, and how young athletes can benefit from integrating mindset training into their development. We're going to be dropping lots of gold nuggets of knowledge today. Danielle, welcome to our Kids play Hot. 

Danielle McDonough [1:28 - 1:32]: Hi. Thank you so much. I'm so beyond excited to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:33 - 2:01]: No, thank you for being here again. We love getting books. We love getting books and looking at books. And as we said in the pre show, we really do love talking about the mental side of the game and our audience does as well. The emails and the notes that we get after episodes like this are always wonderful. But as we said, you played hockey at a really high level. Why don't you tell us about your hockey journey and really how it took you from playing at the highest levels to coaching and working in mental performance? Right. What sparked your passion for that throughout your journey? 

Danielle McDonough [2:02 - 4:48]: Oh, that's such a. Such a loaded question. And I, you know, I always start my introduction by giving my. My kind of life story because I think that my entire life has led me to where I am now. Being born and raised in Southern California, I only had the. The only option for me was to play boys hockey. And now even back then, it wasn't a big thing. We got Wayne Gretzky. That kind of made it bigger. And then when the girls won the 98 Olympics in Nagano, that, that's what really kind of started it for girls as well. But still in, in Southern California, not that big of a thing. My parents are Canadian, so when they moved down to Southern California, that was just like natural for them to find the closest ice rink and get us involved in hockey. But I, both of us started figure skating and my, both of us, meaning my younger brother. So he started figures. And then he lasted like a month. He's like, I hate this, I don't want to do this. And so my dad got him involved in hockey, but he's younger than me, so he was four. He wouldn't get on the ice without my dad. So I would be running around the rink by myself while my dad was on the ice with my brother. So to kind of make sure that I was safe. My dad, one day, I will never forget, he sat me, we were at the park playing, and he sat me down at like a picnic bench and he said, you know, how do you feel about maybe you want, you want to maybe try? And before he could even get the question out of his mouth, I was like, yes, I do. So I've literally loved the sport since before I even started playing. But all of that to say I played with boys until I was 18, which in a lot of ways was really beneficial. But in a lot of ways was hard too because, you know, I was the only girl. And it's kind of one of those things where every day, at least, I felt this way. I was having to prove that I belonged there every single day. There were no off days for me. I had to be on and, you know, be excellent every single day because I felt that people were just waiting for me to make a mistake to say, up seat, it's a girl, she doesn't, she shouldn't be playing this game, right? And so I feel like subconsciously that drove me a little bit too, because that's where I sort of developed my perfectionism and my people pleasing and all of the things right when I was about 12 or 13 is when they finally there were two coaches, Rodgun and Scott Plummer, who went out and found all the girls who were like me in the whole state of California playing on all boys teams. And that's when they, they developed the very first ever girls team in California, Calex. And so I was about 12 and it was a 19U team. So our sole purpose was just to go to the east coast and play in these tournaments so that we could be recruited and end up, you know, playing at the collegiate level. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:48 - 5:14]: Can we just. I just want to pull through that, like, because I, I think people gloss over that. You just said this was a 19U team and you were 12 years old. Right. So, so parents listening, like for boys especially, that'd be unheard of. Right. It's actually not as uncommon as people think. I think in certain places on, even on national teams. But 12 years old, playing with a 19U team and how many players on that team were around that age? 19. 

Danielle McDonough [5:14 - 5:16]: I would say the majority. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:16 - 5:17]: Wow. 

Danielle McDonough [5:17 - 5:18]: The majority. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:20 - 5:25]: A little bit for the audience, like, like I said, because that's a, that's a big deal. You want to talk about growing up quick, go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. 

Danielle McDonough [5:25 - 6:28]: Well, but, but that's exactly it. And that's another part that kind of factors in is, you know, it was really challenging hockey wise. Yes. Because they're bigger, faster, stronger, more experienced than I was, but also just life wise, like they had experienced more in life. And here I am, this little 12 year old, no idea what they're talking about in the locker room, you know, and so just like the self consciousness that came with that. And so all of, you know, all of these things kind of led me to now doing what I do without really realizing if that sort of makes sense. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And then, you know, going to the next level, you know, I always say to my athletes, like new levels, new devils, they, it's like a business term. But I apply that to sport too, because it does apply. So you, you know, the 12 years old playing on the 19U team and then you go into play at the collegiate level and then the professional level. It's just, you know, every new step that you take brings new adversities in some shape or form. Yeah. So dealing with all of that really kind of guided my path, I would say. 

Christie Casciano [6:28 - 6:30]: Yeah. So you get recruited, right? 

Danielle McDonough [6:30 - 6:31]: Yes. 

Christie Casciano [6:31 - 6:32]: And what happened then? 

Danielle McDonough [6:33 - 7:11]: So I was recruited. I was recruited by multiple schools. And I remember this is kind of a side note. My dad. So, you know, you get five official visits and which is where you go to the school by yourself to live with the team for a weekend and that sort of thing. You guys have kids that, well, Kristy, you do, you'll be there soon, I'm sure. But they go, they go and they stay with the team. And so my dad would always say, okay, I want you to have a good time. I want you to, you Know, ask all the questions, but do not make a decision before we have a chance to discuss. Just don't do it. Just don't. Just come home. We'll discuss. 

Christie Casciano [7:12 - 7:12]: Yeah. 

Danielle McDonough [7:12 - 7:40]: Yes, exactly. So I did for most of the visits that I went on, but my visit to Providence College was different. And I just felt it there. I felt it with the girls. I felt it in the. At the campus and the rink and, you know, and I just felt like I belonged. I just felt like this is my place. And the last day of my visit, they took me to the locker room one more time and actually kind of look like your background there, Lee. To the locker room one more time. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:40 - 7:42]: It's a real background, I'm going to tell you. 

Danielle McDonough [7:42 - 7:52]: I know. Well, yeah, I love it when you popped on, I was like, oh, my gosh. I got goosebumps. But I walked in and I saw my jersey hang with my last name and my number. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:53 - 7:54]: That's good. 

Danielle McDonough [7:54 - 8:03]: I'm in. I. Yeah. Yes. And my dad was very upset with me, but ultimately, you know, it was the right decision. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [8:03 - 8:25]: It's funny how that is so true with our kids. My son was that way when. When he selected his college. It just felt like a good fit. And same thing with my daughter, you know, it was. She did the same kind of thing, going to different schools and interviewing, and we kept. Tell her, telling her, don't commit, don't commit. But then when she came home, she said, it's. It's. It. 

Danielle McDonough [8:26 - 8:27]: I. I feel it. It's. 

Christie Casciano [8:27 - 8:30]: That's where I'm going, you know, argue with her. So. 

Danielle McDonough [8:30 - 8:32]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 

Christie Casciano [8:32 - 8:33]: How that happens. 

Danielle McDonough [8:34 - 8:35]: So for sure, you had a good. 

Christie Casciano [8:35 - 8:38]: College experience, Obviously, I did. 

Danielle McDonough [8:38 - 10:11]: I loved my experience there. It was. I just. I love the school. I loved my team. It was. It was awesome. I was. I was captain my senior year. I studied sociology with a business studies minor. Just, you know, something that. I hate to say it, but that would allow me to maintain the GPA to keep playing hockey, something that I was interested in. I liked the classes. They were, you know, easy enough for me because I knew even then I knew I was going to have to go back to school. I knew I wanted to eventually go back to school. I didn't know what I wanted. It's funny, though, because, like I said, all these things subconsciously led me here because I didn't know. I didn't know in college when I. I didn't know this is what I was going to want to do. So I, you know, I was captain my senior year. I graduated and that's when I moved up to Oakville, Ontario, Canada, and I played in the NWHL for two years, which is now the pwhl, which is kind of cool. That league was. It was, that was. I mean, college hockey is amazing, amazing hockey. But there was in. When I was in the NWHL because it was so small, like in college, you know, all the teams are spread out, which means all the Olympians are spread out. So you might play against one Olympian a season because there's so many teams to play. Right. In the nwhl, there was only like four or five teams. And so we were playing Olympians. We had some on our team every single weekend. We were playing Olympians. And it was just the hockey, it was amazing. I. I just, I loved it. It was so, so good, so fast and it was great. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:11 - 10:18]: You know, I always say with the nwhl, which, as you said, was a predecessor to the pwh, we don't get the PWHL without the nwhl. 

Danielle McDonough [10:18 - 10:19]: And. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:19 - 10:58]: And I always like to nod to, to that league and Danny Ryland, who started it, because it really was the first. How do you say this right? You know, it wasn't the first women's professional league, but it got the attention, I think that women's hockey had never received before. And although it had to evolve and again, Covid played a huge role in that, obviously the PWHL is now the gold standard, right? Not going anywhere selling out arenas. But all these leagues start somewhere, including the NHL, right? The NHL was not just snap your fingers in. The NHL existed. There were. There were leagues all across Canada before that league existed. Go look up the history of the Stanley cup or this becomes a different episode. If I keep going right? 

Christie Casciano [11:01 - 11:24]: Your journey was. Is amazing. At what point did that light bulb moment come on? Because now you're into mindset training and you dive deep into it. Was there a particular experience or something that you observed that you said, there is a huge need and I need to use my talents and my life experiences to help others. 

Danielle McDonough [11:25 - 13:42]: So it's kind of funny how I, and I will say, stumbled upon this, because I really did. So I. After Canada, I went to Europe and I was in Europe for two years mostly. I mean, the hockey was not the same like that. And I knew that's why I wanted to end my career in Europe. Not a knock on Europe, European hockey at all, but it just wasn't the same as North American hockey. So I spent a lot of time traveling. It was also really lonely. It got really lonely. There but it was an amazing experience, a way to see the world, to play hockey at the professional level, because we were getting paid there. I had committed actually to a third year, came home, that's the summer before, and I just sort of went through this period of like, okay, I feel like I need to sort of figure out what my next step is. Like. I can't. As a female who eventually wanted to move home, back to the States, I can't keep playing and prolonging real life, because that's essentially what I was doing, because I didn't know what. What was going to happen in real life. I didn't know what that next step was. You know, I was a hockey player my entire life, an athlete of some sort. But hockey was my main sport, so I always had goals that I was working towards. Excuse me. The next thing with hockey. And now, all of a sudden, I didn't have that anymore, and that terrified me. And I talked with a lot of athletes about this, and we can get into this a little bit later. But I. So I made the tough decision to kind of say to them, you know what? Thank you, but I. I can't come back. I know I'm. I said I was gonna come back, but I can't come back. And then that summer into fall was probably one of the most challenging periods of time for me in my entire life. And, I mean, I'm not. You know, I. We had tough periods of time with hockey, like skating so hard you're throwing up, training and so, you know, lifting weights where you can't even walk up the stairs because your muscles hurt so bad. So I wasn't for. It wasn't a foreign thing to me for difficulty. Right. But this was nothing like I'd ever experienced. It was very, very hard. I was. I was depressed. Like, it was. It was like the. Like a death in the family. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:43 - 13:43]: Like that. 

Danielle McDonough [13:43 - 13:45]: He died. Yes. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:45 - 13:50]: They say athletes have two deaths, right? It's when you stop playing and when you pass away. It's tough. 

Danielle McDonough [13:51 - 15:48]: Yeah, it's very, very hard. It's such a huge part of your identity for so long that it was. It was very, very difficult. So I went through this sort of phase where I was depressed. I was trying so hard to figure it out. I have a very, very good support system in my family. I feel so fortunate for that, because without them, it would have been so much harder. But I just finally got to this point where I was like, okay, I need to pivot. Like, I need to. Something needs to happen here. I can't Keep living like this. Like, I was like a ghost of myself. Like, it was just really sad. So I said, I need to pivot. I need to do something. So I. I. In my head, I said, okay, because I was thinking about my next step. What is my next step here? So I thought, okay, well, I know I love. I love being an athlete. I love being around athletes. I love that environment and that culture and the way I feel as being a part of a team and that sort of thing. But I don't want to coach because I eventually want to have a family. When you coach, you know, I saw my coach in college, like, he never saw his kids, and it was really sad. So I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to be a physical, like a trainer. So I literally. And here's my aha moment. I literally googled jobs in sports. Yeah, I know. Isn't that. Isn't it wild? So I googled jobs and sports, and sports psychology was within the top five. So it was like, coach, athletic trainer. And then sports psychology was like, next in line. And I was. I clicked on it and I said, oh, what is this? This sounds interesting. And I just read a little bit about it, and I. Everything that I had experienced my entire career, youth hockey, high school hockey, college pro, everything flash before my eyes, and I'm like, oh, my God, this is it. This is it. This is what I meant to do. This is what I want to do. And that's it. I went and found a program, a master's program here, and I enrolled, and two years later, I had my degree. And so that. That was it. 

Christie Casciano [15:48 - 15:59]: And the timing couldn't be any better because there's such a need right now. There's so many kids who are hurting out there or not and struggling to figure things out. 

Danielle McDonough [15:59 - 16:01]: Right. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:01 - 16:17]: I'll say this, too. That for the. For the. This is for the parents and the kids listening. You know, there's. I. I don't meet too many not passionate hockey players and people. Right. And I don't meet too many people in the game that are like, hey, hockey's all right. You know, it's. It's. It's your life. It's. It's part. 

Danielle McDonough [16:17 - 16:18]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:18 - 16:24]: You know, they make podcasts about this stuff. You know what I mean? So it's. It's one of those things. It's not a surprise to me. 

Christie Casciano [16:24 - 16:24]: And. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:24 - 17:09]: And again, the way you said it. Oh, I just googled jobs and sports because I think it's important to note here that when you have a passion like you have for really for anything. But we'll talk specifically about hockey here. Man, it can drive you to so many different destinations, Right? Because, Danielle, my, my story is not that much different, right. It's just everything to me was hockey, like the broadcasting, writing, books, coaching, mindset, mental fitness. It's, it's all the game to me. It's just I'm applying it in a different way. Right. So the reason I'm bringing that up is just for everybody listening, no matter where you're at in your hockey journey. Right. The passion that you have for the sport can be applied in so many different ways. It's tough to realize that while you're playing. 

Danielle McDonough [17:09 - 17:10]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:10 - 18:55]: And we always say this, and this will also pivot into the book too. You know, you're more than just a hockey player. I think one of the dangers we run into in this sport is athletes only identifying as, I am a hockey player and you are so much more than that. And, and parents, we play a role, excuse me, play a major role in making sure that we kind of hint that to our kids. I always say the kids won't necessarily listen to you, but you gotta, you gotta leave clues. I remember, and I actually haven't said this in years on this show that, you know, for me and my parents, my parents had me convinced, and I'm saying this all very sarcastically, excuse me, that I needed to have a backup plan if hockey didn't work out. Right. And that's how they presented it to me. And now, now that I'm a parent, I'm like, yeah, they knew all along this wasn't a backup plan. Okay, but, but man, it was kind of. To me, I always say, expert parenting of like, you're not going to play this game forever at the level you want to play it at, so you need to have the backup plan. And when you can apply the passion to anything, that's when you become more than just a hockey player. And Danielle, again, I want to transition in the book because your book not only dives into that. Right. But the step by step kind of approach of, of, of why this is important, how mindset plays into you as a person. And again, throughout the book, you have so many great work pages of, of, of things athletes need to fill out. And the reason I love that is because there is no cookie cutter approach to mental health and mental fitness. It's different for everybody. You must be an active participant in building your own mindset. And it's like going to the gym, right? Like you can't just go and do a prescribed workout and expect it's going to work for your body. Your body is your body. So tell us a little bit about that and how the book came to be. 

Danielle McDonough [18:55 - 19:47]: Yeah. So the book, it's interesting because I feel like I've always wanted to write it ever since I. You know, even when I was going through school, like, getting my master's degree, I felt like it was in there. And as I started to work with my athletes, that feel. Feeling just kind of came. It was stronger and stronger, but I was always, oh, it's not the right time. Or, no, not yet. Or, you know, like, whatever. Your mind, same thing with playing sports. Your mind makes up these stories that convinces you and pulls you off track. Right. So I was pulled off track for a little while, and it wasn't until my son was. So I have two small children. My son is six. He turned seven in July. My daughter is actually turning four in, like, two weeks. So my son was three and my daughter was six months old. And I woke up one morning, oh, now is the right time. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:47 - 19:48]: Right. 

Danielle McDonough [19:50 - 20:01]: I just. It's kind of like when I was at Providence and I had that feeling and it wouldn't go away. It was the same thing. I woke up and I'm like, okay. I think. I think this is the time I was gonna say. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:01 - 20:11]: Christy. Christy. So we're all authors here, believe it or not. And it's. When the book is ready to be written. It's written. It's. That's how it happen. You don't choose. It tells you. 

Christie Casciano [20:11 - 20:13]: Yeah, sometimes it chooses you. 

Danielle McDonough [20:13 - 20:41]: Exactly. And I really do feel like it. It chose me in that moment. And so I. Waking up at 4, 4:30 in the morning to write before, while the house is quiet and the kids are still sleeping and in between feedings and all the things, you know, and I mean, I feel like I blacked out for, like, that whole year and a half that I was doing this. Yeah. But it was just. It was something that I knew I wanted to write. I just didn't know when that was going to happen. And, you know, so then it happens. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [20:41 - 20:45]: Now that it's written, it's out there. What kind of response have you got? 

Danielle McDonough [20:46 - 21:41]: I've had a really, really positive response, which is so nice because, you know, as authors yourselves, I mean, I'm sure you went through this to some degree. It's scary. Yeah. I describe it as standing in the middle of Times Square naked. Like, you know, it's just like you're Exposing yourself, you know, and so there was that fear. But I kept telling myself, you know what? As long as this helps just one person, just one person, then it's all worth it. And so when I, when it was out and I started getting feedback, the feedback was overwhelmingly positive. So that feels really good. But from, you know, from athletes, from parents, from non athletes, you know, people say that it's, it's helped them in, in different areas of their life. Lives. And I just feel so, I just love that. I just feel so grateful and you. 

Christie Casciano [21:41 - 21:58]: Know, it is very gratifying. So can you maybe share a story of an athlete. No names obviously share here of an example of somebody who is really struggling and you help them through it. What kind of process does it take? 

Danielle McDonough [21:58 - 22:24]: Yeah, so there's so many different. I'm going through the catalog in my head actually one, one's coming to mind that I actually wrote in the book. And I don't know if it's because I just did something on this athlete or not, but he, he actually was a football player. So Lee mentioned earlier that. Yes, this, this is for, it is for all athletes. Sure. Obviously if you read the book, there are a lot of hockey references because that's my, that was my main sport. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:24 - 22:29]: You can look at the COVID You have every sport, you have every sport in the brain here. You can, There's a lot of them. 

Christie Casciano [22:29 - 22:31]: Yes, but it's not exclusive. 

Danielle McDonough [22:31 - 25:10]: Right, right, absolutely. You know, the, the rules of the sport change, but the mindset stuff, the, the struggles that we experience mentally, that it's all the same. Which is a very powerful thing for athletes to note. I will mention too, we're all experiencing that stuff. You are not alone in that. Even though as athletes we feel like we are. You're not. Everybody's experiencing the same type of thing. So this, this football player, he was in high school, I think he was a junior. I worked with him years ago now, maybe five years pre Covid. And he would have like anxiety attacks every time they would do film session, like watch game tape. Right. And he couldn't, he would just, he couldn't control it. He would, he'd have to leave the room. It was very, very bad, maybe bordering panic attacks. And so what we did was we just sort of. I helped him work backwards to, to develop more self awareness around the whole thing and identify the exact thing that was triggering for him. So we all, we're all fine, fine, fine, fine, fine until we're not. Right. And there's that little. This right here is where we want to catch that. I'm not fine. Not up here when it's like level 100. We want to catch it right at the beginning. So I helped him identify this part where. Where that little trigger is that kind of started this whole process because he was fine walking to the locker room. Fine. Walking into the locker room putting a fine, fine, fine, right. The thing that triggered him was the flip of the projector switch. That sound. That. That flip of the switch for him is what kind of went right here. Okay, I'm starting to not feel fine. So once we knew that, then we could come up with a plan for him, like a plan of action, you know, and the plan started even on his walk in and that sort of thing. Sort of helping to prepare his mind and his body for film stuff. And it's not like. I mean, he was a very good player. It's not like all the clips are negative, you know, calling him out all the time. He was just worried that they would be. He was just very in his head about it. And so we. We came up with that plan of action for him to help him stay calm as he's walking in, to help him work through that trigger point. And then once he got through that part, he was. He was okay. He was good to go. And eventually the, you know, it stopped altogether because just like with physical skills, you practice and practice and you get better and better. It's the same thing with mental skills, too. So the more he practiced them, the better he got. And, you know, before long, it. It was. It wasn't a thing anymore. But yet he still had the tools. If it ever. If something, you know, triggered him again. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:10 - 25:12]: Well, you bring up that gate. 

Christie Casciano [25:12 - 25:34]: What kind of tools do you think parents should have in their toolbox if they see their young athlete? Because we have a lot of, you know, new parents listening, new hockey parents listening, starting to struggle and feeling anxious about all kinds of things, whether it's tryouts or whether it's practice or whether it's, you know, getting moved to a new position that angst builds up. 

Danielle McDonough [25:35 - 25:35]: What. 

Christie Casciano [25:35 - 25:40]: What can parents do to help their kids breathe a little easier? 

Danielle McDonough [25:41 - 28:45]: I was going to say, are you talking about the parents being anxious or the kids? Because that, you know, that you. Yes. So, yeah, great question. So people always think, well, I think there are two assumptions. One is that this is like therapy and that you have to have a problem and go lay on the couch and cry and talk about your feelings with the tissues. And that's not the case. Like, this is very different this is mental skills training, right? So just like physical skills training where you, you, you know, you do your sprints to get faster, you practice your slap shot in the garage to get, you know, more power and accuracy. It's the same thing here. And so my approach is very proactive because I want to be able to provide these athletes and their parents with the tools before we get to that space where it becomes a thing where they're having these panic attacks before practice or before games or whatever it is. So I tell my parents and my kids I started teaching my own kids tools and, and mental skills when they were like, I don't know, one and a half, two years old. As soon as they could understand taking a deep smell of a flower and blowing out birthday candles, that's when I started to teach them my first tool, which is diaphragmatic breathing. It's the gateway tool. It's, it's the introduction. It's like the first tool we use in any sequence that I work with athletes on because it's very important for calming the mind and the body. So if you have younger kids, something that might help with this would be, you know, let's take a. Pretend we're taking a deep inhale of a flower and blowing out birthday candles. That's helpful. Or one of those. Are they dandelions? Those things that kind of, you know, like the white things that blow off. You know, you have to take a big forceful exhale, right. And so you could also get in. And now we're getting into a little bit of visualization and imagery without realizing it. But you can tell them, okay, I want you to shut your eyes and I want you to pretend you're at your birthday party, last year's birthday party. You remember it. You remember how fun it was. It was such a good time. So, and so was there with you. We had all the decorations. It was dinosaur themed. You know, just be there in that moment right now, be. And. And all of a sudden we bring your, your cake out to you, and it's the perfect cake. It's the exact cake that you wanted, and you love it so much, and you're so excited to blow out the candles, right? So now this is visual because you're teaching them visualization without them realizing it. But the whole thing is leading up to the breath, right? So the cake is right in front of you, and I just want you to. You can smell it. It's chocolate. It smells so good. Why don't you take a deep smell and now make sure you Blow out all those candles. Get them all out, because you want to make your wish. You blow them all out. All out, right? And so there. There you go. There's diaphragmatic breathing and visualization. And you're calling them down because you're taking them back to a safe place. Right? So when they're anxious, you've just taken them back to a safe place. They're surrounded by their friends. They got their birthday cake. They're. They're happy. They're visualizing it. And now you've gotten them to do the diaphragmatic breath, and you can have them do it again. Oh, you didn't get that last candle. Let's get it. Let's get it. Right. So now they can breathe again. Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:46 - 28:46]: How old are we talking? 

Danielle McDonough [28:46 - 29:08]: Very helpful. So I started teaching my kids this when they were about one or two. But this is a really good introductory exercise for anyone who's learning diaphragmatic breathing, because, I mean, even yourself, you can flashback to your favorite birthday party and make that connection with taking that deep breath in and out. You know, I love that, and I. 

Christie Casciano [29:08 - 29:11]: Love chocolate cake, and I love birthday candles. 

Danielle McDonough [29:11 - 29:12]: I got a lot of. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:12 - 29:17]: I need to write a note here. Get Christy chocolate cake for her. 

Christie Casciano [29:19 - 29:22]: But that's okay. This is great. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:23 - 29:31]: What I love, and I asked for the age on purpose, is because there's too much pushback from. Oh, the kids are too young to learn that they can't. 

Danielle McDonough [29:31 - 29:31]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:31 - 29:35]: The kids learn it easier than the adults, my friends. 

Danielle McDonough [29:35 - 30:05]: Kids learn anything easier than adults. You think about how easy it is for them to learn other languages or to pick up new sports or skill sets. Exactly. And it's really. As long as they can understand those concepts, those easy concepts of taking a big inhale of something they like to smell. Right. And blowing out birthday candles or the dandelion or whatever it is, as long as they can understand that and you don't have to tell them, hey, I'm going to teach you diaphragmatic breathing. You don't tell them. You just. I call it a superpower. Yeah. I call it a superpower for my kids. 

Christie Casciano [30:05 - 30:27]: I'm gonna tell you that this is so good to share this with parents that they're not too young if they can blow out a candle, if they can smell a dandelion, it's okay to introduce these concepts at that young age, because the sooner you do, the better they're going to be able to handle those situations. And trust me, parents, they come up fast. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:30 - 30:33]: Because I don't want Parents to think like, oh, I missed the mark. I didn't do this when my kids were. 

Danielle McDonough [30:33 - 30:34]: You didn't. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:34 - 32:12]: We do this with the kids at every age. And I'll tell you how it evolves for, for the teams I work with, Danielle, is that we will be in the locker room before a game, big game, and we'll sit and we'll close and we'll visualize those situations. And I'll say things like, I want you. I don't always say, hey, imagine getting the big goal because your goalie's not going to do that, right? I. I talk about. I want you to think about something. You want to improve on this game, and I want you to visualize that. And I always try and end it with. Visualize being with your teammates after the game. I don't always say, victory or defeat depends on the game, but we sit and we visualize. And here's the thing for the parents listening, and we're going to transition into the parents here in a second. There's nothing quite like seeing a kid and really, 8 to 18, I mean that on this, you know, they're in an anxious moment on the bench. And Christy, I've seen this, and I love this, right? And I see them go into breathing on their own on the bench. You see them take a few deep breaths on their own. It's one of the most rewarding things as a coach of any type, right? To see that, wow, they are. They're figuring this out, right? And again, I equate it, too. It's when a kid does a skill set for the first time on the ice with muscle memory that they're not thinking about it. I have seen kids spontaneously go into breathing on the bench to calm themselves down. And it's, you know, as a coach, it's like, yes. Now, with that said, this is a. This is an interesting transition. Okay. I've also had that happen. And parents say, and I'll be very blunt, we don't need this yoga. We need to win hockey games. And I've had parents say that. 

Danielle McDonough [32:12 - 32:12]: And. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:12 - 32:22]: And I, you know, look, as someone who tries to be present, I just kind of smile, you know, I don't. I don't meet that with any aggression. And I usually go, nothing wrong with yoga, but that's not what this is. 

Christie Casciano [32:23 - 32:23]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:23 - 32:52]: Although you probably could use some of that. So my question to you, Danielle, is, is let's talk about some of the mistakes parents make. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because you have an audience here that Is extremely interested in learning not just about what they can do, but probably what they should not be doing. And parents, you alluded to it earlier. If you're anxious before the game about your kids game, guarantee you are, you are putting that on them and you don't even realize it. Yeah, right. 

Christie Casciano [32:52 - 32:54]: They can feel it, they can sense it, they can see it. 

Danielle McDonough [32:54 - 32:56]: Yeah, absolutely. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:56 - 32:59]: So what are your thoughts on that? What can parents do differently and what should they not do? 

Danielle McDonough [33:00 - 34:16]: There's so many things. There's so many things that I could talk about. I know, right? We might have to do a part time too. Actually, my next book is going to be for parents. I haven't got that feeling yet to start, but it is coming. So I think that's a good starting point, that's a good place to start, is being able to have the self awareness within yourself beforehand to note, okay, I am starting to feel a little bit anxious so that you can get yourself back on track so that it. They don't pick up on it. Because they do pick up on everything. On everything. You know, even if you walk in the door after work and you come in and you're kind of in a bad mood, they'll come to you and say, are you. Well, at least my son will be like, are you mad at me? And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm so sorry. Give me a second, let me, let me recalibrate myself. And I'm very sorry. No, you know, so they, they pick up on everything and then they internalize it as it being their fault somehow. And that just starts the cycle. Right. And so if you imagine 15 years of that, of them internalizing and thinking that everything, you know, like the movements that you make, the even a deep breath, like a sigh, like that, they might think, oh my gosh, did I do something wrong? 

Lee MJ Elias [34:16 - 34:19]: I would say road rage too. Like think about how you drive. 

Danielle McDonough [34:19 - 34:27]: Yes, that's a tough one for me. Well, that's tough in California is terrible. Yeah, I believe that too. 

Lee MJ Elias [34:27 - 34:28]: When you hear your. 

Danielle McDonough [34:30 - 37:11]: New York. Yes, absolutely. But you know, they pick up on those things. And if you're watching in the stands and I. So quick story. I worked with an athlete who, you know, and, and kids will look at their parents in the stands. It's just part of it. I mean, even in college I looked at my dad in the stands, you know, it, you know, not that I was looking for him to coach me, I was just looking at him. It was just sort of a reassuring thing. Oh, there he is. Oh, he moved. Okay, there he is. Right. But they will look at you and if you're like on your phone, you're like, or you're not on your phone, but maybe your phone's down. They're gonna see the, you know that the head go back, the eye roll, the sigh, and instantly they're like, oh, I'm not playing well. So I had this, this athlete, that's what she did. She would look at her dad after every time she did. And now there's different degrees of looking at, you know, and there's some times where we need to kind of coach that a little bit not to look so often or whatever it is. But in this case, she would look after every drill that she did. And he would often be working because you know, hockey parents, they sacrifice a lot. They have to leave work to take them to all the things, right? So he'd be working and he would make these faces or do exactly what I just said. And she would think, oh, I'm not, I'm not playing well. He's not happy with me. He's not, you know, he's not gonna tell me I did a good job or whatever it is. And that was a really. And then, and then the rest of the practice, she wouldn't play well. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy, right? Because once your, your thoughts go there, everything else follows. And so we, I worked with both of them on this. Number one, to clear the communication for him to understand what she experiences when she looks at him and for him to understand because he wasn't aware that he was doing these things, you know, and oftentimes we aren't, but he, in this case he definitely wasn't. And he's. So he made that conscious effort to work on his own self awareness to identify if he was feeling certain things that might then project outward as something for her to pick up on that would, you know, she would internalize as her not doing well. So I think the very first thing is developing your own self awareness understanding. And this is one of the first things I teach kids too, is how to build that self awareness muscle. Because if we don't understand when we've like, if we don't know when we're shifting from I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine to I'm not fine. If we can't identify that, then it's zero to a hundred. And from there I'm not saying it's impossible to dig yourself out, but it's just much harder. So if the if parents can identify that within themselves and then implement these same exact. The breathing technique with the birthday candle. Same thing. Very good exercise for you to use, too. Visualize your happy place. Maybe it's a beach in Hawaii where you're calm, you can hear the ocean, you know, just to kind of calm yourself down. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:12 - 37:12]: So. 

Danielle McDonough [37:12 - 37:16]: So that they don't pick up on that, I think is a very good place to start. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:16 - 38:32]: I. I love that. And. And a few reasons why, you know, my belief is that if a kid is going to look at you in the stands, hopefully 90% of the time, it's for just some reassurance of, as you said, hey, I'm here. I'm here with you. You know, my. My son, who's a goaltender, it's. It's weird. He will never look at me, or. I shouldn't say that. He rarely looks at me when he makes a big play. But if. If he's feeling a little unsure, he looks at me and. And for confidence. And that. That makes me feel really wonderful. Now, with that said, I said 90. Because the other thing is a lot of parents think, well, I need to motivate my kid, and. And I want them to look at me so I can motivate them. Yeah, that needs to be organic, too, because there are. Sometimes my kids will look at me because they want a little bit of a, you know, fist, like, go. You got to go a little harder here. But it's. It's. They're initiating it. Right. I. I have a feeling. I can't guarantee this, but parents, when you don't let them initiate it and you're overbearing, you're. You're really not helping them. I know there's this kind of unproven thought that of, well, they need this. They need me to push them. The truth is this. If they're not pushing themselves, you doing. It's not going to make it happen. You're creating a negative atmosphere and a negative environment. They're gonna burn out. 

Danielle McDonough [38:32 - 38:32]: All right? 

Lee MJ Elias [38:32 - 38:47]: And I'll tell you, I talked about one of the things that was heartwarming to me on the bench before. One of the devastating things I've heard in. In this season, I've heard it is my dad's gonna be so mad at that shift. And we have to tell these kids, your dad is not coaching this team. 

Danielle McDonough [38:47 - 38:48]: Right. All right. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:48 - 39:10]: You should be more worried about me than your father. You know? And again, parents, that can be a hard pill to swallow sometimes, but it's the truth. Like, you're not Doing them any favors in the stands by screaming at them or trying to motivate them. They need to organically build them. Excuse me. Build that themselves. And you do play a role in that. 

Danielle McDonough [39:10 - 39:11]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [39:11 - 39:12]: Right. Go ahead. 

Danielle McDonough [39:12 - 39:14]: Yeah, yeah, no, I. 

Christie Casciano [39:14 - 39:22]: Balance. There's a balance there. I mean, yes, you do want to help encourage. Sure, you don't want to be overbearing, but sometimes they do need pushes. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:22 - 39:22]: 100. 

Christie Casciano [39:22 - 39:27]: There are times when they need. Hey, you know what? Yeah, you want this, you got to go for it. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:27 - 39:34]: But that. But that ignites something, Christy. Like I'm saying, it's like we always say this. You can't create that. You can cultivate it. 

Danielle McDonough [39:34 - 39:34]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:34 - 39:46]: Right. Now, if you ignite it, that's. That's great. But I'm saying it's like, if your kid's not working hard, you yell at them, and they're still not working hard. That's. That's not. That's something within them that they have to help build. And you play a role in that. 

Danielle McDonough [39:46 - 40:56]: Right. Well, and if you think about it, too, all of these are mental skill sets that need to be learned, taught and learned. Right. And so if you're constantly doing everything for them, it's the same thing as, like, I don't know, the other things that come up when you talk about, like helicopter parenting or what is it now? Like, lawnmower, snowplow. Yes, exactly. It's the same type of thing. You know, you need to find that balance where it is more. You're helping to. You're helping them to cultivate this skill on their own. Because what happens when, you know, they're older and you're not around anymore? Like, what are they. When they need to be motivated before they go in and give a big presentation at work? Like, they have to be able to do that themselves. You know what I mean? Or to actually put the presentation together in the first place. You're not going to be standing on the sidelines being like, come on, you know, like, you need to be able to teach them to cultivate, help, ignite that so that they can learn how to do that and what helps to motivate them, too. I. Because it's all very unique. Every. Everybody's different. 

Lee MJ Elias [40:56 - 41:28]: It's always funny to me, you know, when you talk to. To. And I'm not big on labels, but when you talk to athletes that were raised during Gen X in that feral environment where parents weren't even there, you know, they just. They went to the rink, they did their thing, and they came home and hopefully There was dinner there. Now, I'm not, I'm not saying that that was the best generation or anything like that, but the, the point I, I took from that was, hey, kids, kids survive. All right? Kids are adaptable. Kids are more resilient than we think. But when you let them rely on you, they will rely on you. 

Danielle McDonough [41:28 - 41:29]: Yeah, exactly. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:29 - 42:26]: And we overdo that sometimes. And especially in youth hockey, I mean, it's become, you know, it's monstrosity of like, overbearing parents, like, just let them play. And again, I'm going to bring this back, Danielle, is that, I mean, you're talking about consciousness a lot on this episode of being conscious of your thoughts. You know, and we talk about this too with, with mental health. Mental, mental fitness, you don't wait until you're injured, but you don't want to wait until you're injured to start taking care of a problem right now. Injuries happen. But, you know, if you keep saying, oh, my ankle hurts, my ankle hurts, my ankle hurts, and suddenly you pull your ankle out, I mean, there were warning signs there. Right, Right. You got to be conscious of that. So can we, can we maybe talk about. Because you've alluded to it a few times of, you know, that, that point of, oh, I'm not okay. What are some of the signs of, hey, I'm not okay? Because people will lie to themselves. I'll be very blunt about that. So, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. It's like, you're not, you're not fine. And that's okay. 

Danielle McDonough [42:26 - 44:56]: Athlete. And athletes do that all the time. That's, you know, we, we're constantly like, I'm okay. I can take on more. It's not a big deal. I've got this right. When realistically we're drowning, like, it's, it's too much. Right. And we need to take a step back, but then we're afraid. We're afraid to take a step back or to let on that we're experiencing all this because then all of a sudden, oh, well, coach might not play me now. And my teammates aren't going to trust me because they can't. They think that I can't do it or whatever. So that's. Athletes oftentimes are on this island, the self imposed island where we're so alone. Which is why I said at the beginning, like, you're not. Everybody's experiencing this stuff to a degree. Everybody is. So the signs can be different for everyone. One thing I will Mention something I teach my athletes is the thought emotion loop. So our thoughts lead to. Emotions lead to more. Thoughts lead to more emotions. Like a circle, sort of like a. You can think about it like a brain tornado circle, right? And then from there we have a physiological response, which means our body reacts. And then from there our behavior and our performance is affected. Okay. And there's a diagram in the book that kind of shows this. Okay. So if you note, though, everything starts with a thought. Everything. It's. Some people might think it's an emotion that comes first, but it's not. An emotion is actually a chemical reaction that occurs in the body as a result of a thought that we have. Now here's the tricky part. Sometimes, oftentimes we're not even aware of the thought. It's something that happens in our subconscious. Our subconscious thoughts are always going, always, always, always. It could be some, some event that we experienced when we were seven that's been going, going, going. And all of a sudden now something when we're 15 and the championship game is triggered and boom, there's that thought emotion, thought emotion loop, brain tornado, body is affected, behavior is affected. So all that to say when we talk about self awareness and teaching self awareness, it is very unique to each person. And I walk people through. I think this is in the book too. Pretty sure. Mindset zones. So identifying what mindset zone you're in at any given moment, and that's really developed through mindfulness, which is more of that yoga crap that you're talking about. But mindfulness is just simply paying attention on purpose, right? It's just paying attention to what's going on in you in any given moment in your mind, in your body, how you're feeling and just tuning into that and not being afraid and pushing it away, but tuning into it. Go ahead. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:57 - 45:51]: Yeah, I just want to add one thing to that because I love what you're saying. For the parents listening, when you're an adult, you know what anger is, you know what, you know your emotions. I think, Danielle, one of the mistakes we make as parents is assuming that our children understand what they're feeling. They can be so blind to the emotion. And I think one of the exercises just to add on is when I see a kid starting to spiral, I say, tell me the emotion you're feeling. Identify the emotion. Because once they do that, they can start to get that control over it that you're talking about. But. But there's two things kids might not know that they're angry. They look angry, but they Might not know that, number one. And then the second part of it is, once they call it out, you can tell them. And this is a big one. I always say for parents, kids don't realize the feeling's gonna end. Like, you're not gonna feel this way forever. 

Danielle McDonough [45:51 - 45:51]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:52 - 45:57]: Right. But when you're 7, 10, you don't realize that. You think it's gonna. You don't realize it's gonna end. 

Danielle McDonough [45:57 - 45:58]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:58 - 46:00]: I just want to add that in. It is terrifying. Yeah. 

Danielle McDonough [46:00 - 46:22]: And so then you have that initial emotion that they don't know that they're feeling, and then they have this fear coming in. It's just. That's why I call it the brain tornado, because it's just like everything's swirling around. Right. And another thing, too, is they not only do they not experience. Think about a toddler having a temper tantrum. Why do toddlers have temper tantrums? Because they don't understand what's going on. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:22 - 46:26]: Because they're jerks. Okay. And they want it now. 

Danielle McDonough [46:26 - 46:37]: And they don't want anything touching each other. Like, no touching. Yeah. But they don't understand what they're feeling. Right. They don't know what's happening within them. They don't know that this feeling is going to end. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:37 - 46:38]: Right. 

Danielle McDonough [46:38 - 47:20]: And they don't know how to get themselves out of it. Right. If you. Your toddler's having a meltdown and you say, hey, relax. They don't know how to do that. What is relax? How do I. You know what I mean? So that's why they need. We call them coping strategies. Right. That's why we need the mental skill set to be able to, number one, understand what we're feeling, which is what we, you know, the mindfulness where that comes in. Number two, how to fix it. What tools do I have in my toolbox that I can use right now? And if that tool doesn't work, what else do I have in here? And that's what I teach, basically, is the toolbox. But with the mindfulness paying attention and just understanding. And even if they can't label the emotion, maybe you ask them, well, what color is it? 

Lee MJ Elias [47:20 - 47:22]: Right. That's it. 

Danielle McDonough [47:22 - 47:29]: What shape does it make? Is it sharp? Is it a cloud? You know, just sort of anything to get them to destroy. Describe it. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:29 - 47:29]: Love that. 

Danielle McDonough [47:29 - 49:03]: And then from there, that starts to help the tornado sort of dissipate a little bit. Right. And you couple that with. Okay, now let's. Let's maybe take some deep breaths here together. I'll do it with you. Ready? Right. And so just kind of helping them to pay attention on purpose, to understand what's going on with them in any given moment. And this is. And I'll have my athletes, once I teach this skill to them, I'll have them take, like, little mindful moments, just 30 to 60 seconds throughout the day where they're just tuning in what's going on. Right. And I say to them, do it while you're watching your favorite Netflix show, because that's going to be very different than when you're outside playing football with your brother. You know what I mean? And just note the differences. And what we're doing is we're starting to collect information on you. We're collecting data on you. Right. To understand, okay, this is what I experience when I'm watching a funny show on Netflix. This is what I experience when I'm sprinting in the backyard playing catch with my brother. This is what I experience when my coach yells at me in front of everyone. Yeah, right. And so they're collecting this information. And then we. Later on, you know, as I work with them through the program, we. We end up. It's in the book, too. We apply this directly to their sport through the mindset zones. And so now we can pin. The ultimate goal is to pinpoint that exact moment where we go from, I'm fine to I'm starting to not feel fine. And doing all this work ahead of time helps with that. And then once they have that, they insert their tools and they're back on track. So it goes like, boop. And then straight line again instead of all the way up, like a roller coaster and then back down. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:03 - 49:04]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [49:04 - 49:08]: These are different triggers, Danielle. 

Danielle McDonough [49:09 - 49:10]: It could. 

Christie Casciano [49:10 - 49:11]: It could be. 

Danielle McDonough [49:11 - 49:49]: Yeah, yeah. It could be anything. I mean, you know, when I mentioned my football player for him, we discovered it was the. The flip of the projector. But, you know, it could be really anything. It could be. I mean, this is really unfortunate, but you talked about, like, parents after the gate. It could be being nervous to get in the car after the game when you think that you didn't play well. And oftentimes I will say, too, when athletes think they didn't play well, it's really. They only made, like, one mistake. But in their head, the whole game is just a disaster. Right. And so then they're like, oh, God, now my dad's gonna be mad at me in the car. And so then it starts this whole other wave of things that comes along. So that could be felt that at. 

Christie Casciano [49:49 - 49:52]: Some point, you know. Yeah, I'm sure you have, too. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:52 - 49:53]: 100. 

Danielle McDonough [49:53 - 49:54]: Yeah, for sure. 

Christie Casciano [49:54 - 49:56]: A hundred times worse than it is. 

Danielle McDonough [49:56 - 50:02]: Well, they don't like to disappoint. Well, yes, that feels 100 times worse. And then there's the disappointment factor. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:02 - 50:06]: Oh, I'm disappointing my coach and shame plays in this. 

Danielle McDonough [50:06 - 50:46]: Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it could be anything, really. It could be you walk in and you. You. You look at the board, you're like, oh, my God, we're in locker room two. Last time we were in locker room two, we lost. And you know what I mean? Like, it could literally be anything. You just. Just. Everybody's different. We all have these experiences that we've went through, we've gone through in the past that are now living in our subconscious forever. They're still there. And although we might not be triggered by them on a daily basis, they're there. And something we don't like, just seeing what locker room you're in could be the thing that pulls it back up and sends you into that brain tornado, that spiral. And now you're, you know, you're out of it before you've even begun. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:47 - 50:50]: I always say, too, I'm a big Ted Lasso fan. 

Danielle McDonough [50:50 - 50:52]: You know, I love Ted Lasso. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:52 - 51:46]: Me too. You know, I got his jack in the locker behind me over here. But it's funny, you know, the big. One of the big statements from that show is be curious, not judgmental, which is attributed to other people. But, you know, one of the things when I coach kids, I try and explore some curiosity with them, so. Especially with triggers. Right. You said that I'm feeling this because of this. Okay, well, why? Like, let's explore that. Let's be curious about why. I love your statement here. Pay attention on purpose. Because there's a curiosity with that. When that curiosity turns to judgment, that's when bad things can happen. Oh, we're in locker room two. I'm judging now because the last time we were here. Whereas, you know, with curiosity, it's more of, oh, why? Why do I feel this way? Now, you might not get an answer to that question, and you might still have a rough time, but the process of asking the question, the practice of that, that's how you start to get there, you know? 

Danielle McDonough [51:46 - 51:47]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:47 - 52:43]: Daniel, I want to bring this up. I know a lot of parents that like to use examples like, well, Michael Jordan had that flu game where he was food poisoned and he executed, and Kobe Bryant. Or, you know, Wayne Grant. Pick whoever you want. You know, I was like, yo, look, they're great stories. Don't get me wrong. Michael Jordan was one of the most present people on the planet. Like, like his mind was razor sharp. That's why he was able to do that. Kobe Bryant, same way. Pick your. Pick your favorite athlete and your favorite story. Okay. I doubt in those moments they were insanely negative on themselves. Right? To the point that they, they, you know, it's just. Don't get me wrong. There's a. There's a goal there, there's a push through there. There is mental discipline there. And sometimes that does mean, you know, saying things to motivate yourself in a tough way. Okay. But. But they don't perform well because they're not mentally strong. 

Danielle McDonough [52:43 - 52:43]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [52:43 - 52:59]: They're insanely sharp. So parents, if you're going to point and say to your kids, which I'm not, I'm not saying is wrong, like, look at this example of an athlete that overcame massive adversity, you also have to talk about because they were mentally sharp. It's. 

Danielle McDonough [52:59 - 52:59]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [52:59 - 53:05]: It's not just like, well, he's done a million shots and that's why he was so great in those situations. Yeah, part of it. 

Danielle McDonough [53:05 - 53:05]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [53:05 - 53:06]: Right. 

Danielle McDonough [53:06 - 53:28]: But I think another thing with those athletes too is part of that being mentally sharp is their self awareness. Right. It's so good. And one of the things that I teach my athletes is to identify their percentages. Right? So what percentage do you have going into this game? Meaning how are you like in that again, that self awareness. Tune in, be mindful. How are you feeling physically? 

Lee MJ Elias [53:28 - 53:28]: Right. 

Danielle McDonough [53:28 - 53:44]: Did you get a good night's sleep? What kinds of things do you have going on with school right now that might be kind of pulling on you a little bit? And can we work through some of that stuff before we go? But identifying. Okay, so like in that case, when they have the flu or whatever, first of all, please don't make your kid play when they have the flu. 

Lee MJ Elias [53:44 - 53:46]: Yeah, Not. Not a good call. 

Danielle McDonough [53:47 - 55:24]: But like for the professional athletes, right? Those professional athletes that play through sicknesses or whatever it is, they're able to identify in that moment. Okay. I'm not 100% Kobe today. Right. 100% Kobe can do all of these things, right? And that's great, but I'm not 100% Kobe today. I'm 75% co Kobe. Right? 75% Kobe can do these things, right? Just understanding and knowing like, I'm not here, but I'm here and I can do all of these things. I might not look as good or I might be like, drop some passes or whatever it is. I Might not play as well as I would if I were at a hundred percent. But that's okay because I've. I've identified. I have 75% to give, and I'm going to empty the tank. I'm going to give 100 of that 75 right away. It takes so much pressure off of them because as children and youth athletes, we think I have to be 100% every time. I have to. I have to. I have to. And it's just not. That's. Perfection doesn't exist. Right. So if you understand and identify, Okay, I have 75% to give today, and that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. I'm going to give a hundred % of that 75%. And that's when you're going to get those. Like when you had the flu, when he played phenomenally because he went into it with realistic expectations of himself. Right. Or maybe even a little under, and then was happily, you know, surprised or surpassed that or whatever. But it starts with understanding, like, I don't have 100% to give today, and that's okay. This is what I do have, and I'm just going to give all of it. And that's. That's all that I can do. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:24 - 55:27]: I love that you say it. I love. I love it. 

Danielle McDonough [55:27 - 55:27]: It's. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:27 - 55:29]: Give me 100% of whatever you got. 

Danielle McDonough [55:30 - 55:32]: Not use that in your visualizations. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:32 - 55:32]: Yeah. 

Danielle McDonough [55:32 - 55:33]: Before the game. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:33 - 55:44]: Yeah. You know, the other thing, too, is when people watch the. I just recently watched the Last dance again, and it's. You know, Jordan also says, I never asked my teammates to do something I didn't do. 

Danielle McDonough [55:44 - 55:44]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:44 - 57:04]: Like, he, he had such a clear understanding of. Of his own expectations. And, like, that's different than just saying, well, look how hard that guy works. That's not what that was. And, and again, insanely present person to this day. Right. Fierce competitor. Like, and again, I think another thing, Danielle, I want to bring this up is I think that competitiveness, compete level, that's something we talk about a lot nowadays, gets misconstrued in this because people go, well, if you're visualizing and with the dandelions and all the. How can you be competitive in that peaceful environment? It makes you more competitive. And, and that, to me, that's always the disconnect. That's why people say this yoga crap. It's like, no, you, you don't understand. I, I am more competitive in this environment because to not be competitive, knowing this stuff and being aware would be disrespectful to not just Myself, but the game and my teammates. So I'm trying to explore this a little bit with you. Your compete level only goes up when you understand these things. And I think there's a lot of fear from athletes and parents that, oh, if they dive into this world, they're going to get soft. And it's the complete opposite. It really is. Can you talk about that for a couple minutes? 

Danielle McDonough [57:04 - 59:43]: Yeah. Well, I mean, all of these things with the self, again, I come back to the self awareness, which is obviously a big thing that I teach all of this, just like you said, it makes you more aware and more competitive in the way that speaks. That suits you. Right. And I think another common misconception is everyone's the same. And what motivates Johnny is the same thing that's going to motivate Tommy. You know, like, it's just not like Johnny maybe is one of those kids that can get screamed at and be fine and that lights a fire under him. That. And for the record, parents and coaches who are listening, those type of athletes only like 10% respond well to that type of thing. So if you think about a team of 20, that's like one or two players on an entire team that really. Yes, exactly. That respond well to that type of thing. Other athletes need different things. And so when you talk about, like, breathing to calm the mind down, when your mind is racing with all these thoughts like, oh, locker room two, and that was so bad, and now I'm going to play poorly and I made the terrible mistake that cost the game the other day. When they're in that state that is affecting them emotionally, they're feeling maybe shame, embarrassment, nervousness, anxiety. That's going to affect their body. Which going back to mindfulness again, those triggers, what that looks like. Maybe their palms get sweaty, maybe their heart starts to race really fast. Maybe they're breathing rapidly, or maybe they're not breathing at all. Maybe they start seeing tunnel vision that's black or sparkles, or whatever. Everybody's different. But how do you think now this leads to behavior and performance? How do you think they're going to perform in that way? They're going to be stiff and frigid and the puck's going to bounce off their stick or they're just going to bat at it, or they're going to make these mistakes because their head isn't clear. So when you allow yourself to take these deep breaths, that's a natural calming mechanism for the mind and the body. Now our body's calm, our mind is calm. And Clear. And now from there we can insert the visualization. And the visualization can be anything you want. It can be you playing your most perfect game ever. Right in the mind is the only place we can be perfect. Can't be perfect in the physical realm, only in the mind. But it creates that muscle memory and that creates confidence. And so when you're locked in and you're visualizing your perfect game and you're seeing yourself beating the best defenseman on the team and feeling calm and confident doing it, I mean, that level of compete is just through the roof at this point. They're locked in, they're in the zone, they're focused. Right. And that. So all of those things. And it all starts with self awareness and doing the. The quote unquote yoga crap. That gets them to that point, right? It gets them there. So does it. Wouldn't everyone want that? I don't know. 

Lee MJ Elias [59:44 - 1:00:58]: And again, the answer to that question lies in a lot of self exploration of your own mind and how you feel about these things. But I always like to end episodes like this by saying, and you know this, Daniel, with your own work. The top teams in the world are buying into this and doing this. The NHL teams, the PWHL teams, Olympic teams do an incredible amount of mental fitness coaching and mindfulness coaching. Why we fight that at the youth hockey level is beyond me. Right. We're giving it to you. I mean, right. It's out there. And professionals like Danielle and her book, I'm going to say it again, the empowered athlete. This is a plug now. Are easy tools for you to take this on. And I always like to say this too, parents, you play a role in practicing this as much as your kids. And I will tell you right now, buyer beware. It's a lot harder for you as an adult to practice this than it is for an eight year old. But you really want to impact your kid positively and yourself. I mean, this will change your life in a positive way. To practice mindfulness. So before we leave, we've been doing this recently. We have a rapid fire lightning round questions. I know Christy loves this segment. 

Christie Casciano [1:01:00 - 1:01:02]: Danielle, are you ready for the lightning round? 

Danielle McDonough [1:01:02 - 1:01:05]: I am ready. I'm a little nervous. I'm gonna take a deep breath. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:05 - 1:01:07]: Take a deep breath. Yeah, yeah. 

Christie Casciano [1:01:07 - 1:01:21]: Think of that birthday cake. All right, ready to blow out that candle? Here we go. Name one thing that apparently parents should stop saying to their kid after a game. 

Danielle McDonough [1:01:21 - 1:02:13]: You played good. But that's a tough comes after that one. Yeah, yeah, just, hey, you played awesome. And can I elaborate on this or no, sure. Okay. I would just say in the car. This is a big thing. We could probably do another full episode on this in the car. You really want. They're gonna. If they played. If they think they played poorly, they're already beating themselves up. So you want to sort of redirect them a little bit while also helping them to work on their self reflection muscles. So. Oh, yeah, I don't if they're saying, oh, but that, that goal that was. Oh, I don't remember that one. But you had this really great pass in the first period that led to this amazing opportunity. Do you remember that? Tell me about that. Right. So you're getting them to refocus on their positive things. You can do that a couple times. If it is something like a big mistake, be like, oh, okay, yeah, I think I remember that. So what would you do next time to fix it? Right. So it's a conversation and you're helping them develop those mental skills. Sorry. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:02:13 - 1:02:19]: No, no. We always say the car ride is not for coaching. It can be a discussion. If they initiate. I love that one. 

Danielle McDonough [1:02:19 - 1:02:33]: And if the child doesn't want to talk about it, I always say start by asking, hey, I thought you played well. Do you want to. Do you want to talk about it? If they say no, you say, okay, that's fine. But you know, if you do later, I'll be here. Where do you want to go eat? You know, that's it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:02:33 - 1:02:34]: I was like to say, your kid's. 

Christie Casciano [1:02:34 - 1:02:42]: Not in our car rides. Exactly. Let the kids lead the conversation. If they don't want to talk about it, don't push it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:02:42 - 1:02:48]: If they don't want to talk about it, they're not retaining it. And all you're doing is making it. Making. So they don't want to get in the car after each game. 

Danielle McDonough [1:02:48 - 1:02:50]: Exactly. Building that resentment. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:02:50 - 1:02:55]: Next one. You dropped a lot of these today, but do you have a favorite mindset quote for athletes? 

Danielle McDonough [1:02:56 - 1:03:25]: A mindset quote? Oh, my gosh, there are so many. You know, one that always comes to mind for me first is one my dad always used to say to me growing up, if you don't ask, the answer is always no. I like that one. There's one. Another one he used to say to me, skate first, think second. I like that one too, because you take the mindset out of it. All that, oh, well, should I do this? Should I not do that? You know, there's so. Oh, you are what you think is another good one. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:25 - 1:03:39]: I like that one. These are all good. These are great. Again, these. These lightning round questions could be episode episodes. All right, last one, and then we'll let you go. Favorite book? Not your own. In for athletes. 

Danielle McDonough [1:03:41 - 1:03:42]: Gosh. My own. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:43 - 1:03:45]: The Empowered Athlete, right here. 

Danielle McDonough [1:03:47 - 1:03:56]: There is one that I really love for something kind of different, but kind of the same on leadership, and I actually have it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:56 - 1:03:59]: Look at that. Live. Live on the air. I love this. 

Danielle McDonough [1:03:59 - 1:04:03]: Yes. Team Captain's leadership Manual. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:03 - 1:04:03]: That's cool. 

Danielle McDonough [1:04:03 - 1:04:33]: And this is a really good one. It's also actually interactive, and you can do it with your coach, you know, because leadership is also something that needs to be. Sometimes it's innate. Sometimes you're just born, and you just, you know, exude that. But a lot of times it's a skill that needs to be learned and cultivated and nurtured. And I do get a lot of questions from parents on how to develop leadership and coaches, too, and this is a really good book for that. So I. I do really love this book. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:33 - 1:04:35]: I like the name of it. That's good. 

Danielle McDonough [1:04:35 - 1:04:36]: Yeah, that's pretty cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:36 - 1:04:54]: All right, Danielle, listen. We've kept you for over an hour in what can be described as an enthralling, very present conversation. I loved it, but I'm gonna plug your book one more time if you haven't. The Empowered Athlete. It's available everywhere right now. Highly recommend this. There's a lot of great tools in here, parents, if you're looking for that guide. This is one of them. 

Danielle McDonough [1:04:54 - 1:04:54]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:54 - 1:05:07]: And again, there's a lot of things you can do in here with your kids. Your kids can do it themselves. We can't recommend materials like this enough. It. It would be like if someone was handing your kid a 400 hockey stick and saying, this will make you play better, but this one actually will. 

Danielle McDonough [1:05:08 - 1:05:10]: That's such a great analogy. I've never thought of that. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:11 - 1:05:15]: Take it, use it. It's all yours. All right, Christy, anything before I close this out. 

Christie Casciano [1:05:15 - 1:05:29]: Thank you so much. This is a really great guide for parents, and your timing is really good because we've been getting a lot of questions from parents about how to handle the exact scenarios that you laid out. So thank you for that. 

Danielle McDonough [1:05:29 - 1:05:31]: Awesome. I'm so glad. Thank you. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:31 - 1:05:32]: All right, gang. 

Danielle McDonough [1:05:32 - 1:05:33]: Thank you, guys for having me. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:33 - 1:06:22]: Thank you for being here with Danielle McDonough. Again, parents, if you like this episode, make sure you listen to the ride to the rink with your kids. This week. It's going to be all about this. We give them the messages so you don't have to, because you all know that kids don't listen to you, they listen to other people. That's going to do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. For Chris Diccashion of Burns, Danielle McDonough, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you in the next episode. Everybody take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids play hockey.com also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops atwhen hockey stops dot com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. And we'll see you on the next episode.