From NHL Enforcer to Mentor: Zac Rinaldo on Grit, Growth & Giving Back

How do young players find their identity, toughness, and purpose—on and off the ice? This week on Our Kids Play Hockey, we’re joined by former NHL forward and current junior hockey coach Zac Rinaldo, whose career was defined by grit, heart, and relentless work ethic.

Zac shares his journey from leaving home at 14 to attend Notre Dame in Saskatchewan, to becoming a fan favorite in Philadelphia and playing 11 years in the NHL. Now coaching the Pelham Panthers, Zac is focused on developing the next generation of athletes—not just as hockey players, but as resilient, team-first individuals.

In this episode, we cover:

• 🛣️ Zac’s unconventional path from OHL longshot to NHL mainstay
• 🏒 The lost art of physicality and why roles matter more than ever
• 📚 What today’s youth development models are missing
• 🧠 The mindset coaches need to connect with players—and how to earn their trust
• 🧰 Why every young player needs a full “toolbox,” not just highlight-reel skills

Zac’s perspective is honest, refreshing, and full of valuable insight for players, parents, and coaches alike. Whether you’re chasing a dream or helping someone else chase theirs, this episode is packed with real talk and practical advice.

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Transcript

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:06]: Friends and families around the world. And welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. I never get tired of saying that. I'm Lee Elias, joined by Christy Casciano, Burns and Mike Benelli. And our guest today is someone who made his mark in the NHL with a playing style that was all heart, grit, and fearlessness. Over an NHL career that spanned 11 years, he earned a reputation for his toughness and willingness to stand up for his teammates, qualities that made him a fan favorite wherever he went. Before his time in the NHL, Zach Ronaldo developed his game in the OHL, skating for the St. Michael's Majors and the London Knights. But today, he's channeling his passion into coaching, recently taking the reins as the head coach for the Pelham Panthers of the Greater Ontario Junior Hockey League. Zach's journey from youth hockey to junior to the draft to the NHL and now the bench offers valuable insight into the full hockey development experience. And his commitment to mentorship and growth continues off the ice. And we're excited to have him here today to share that journey with us. Zach Ronaldo, welcome to our Kids Play Hockey. 

Zac Rinaldo [1:06 - 1:08]: Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:08 - 1:33]: No, it's good to have you here, Zach. And I meant what I said in the intro. There's a cool journey here that we get to share with our audience, and I know that our audience is going to love it because we can kind of tap on, really, everything from your own journey to the NHL journey, to the coaching journey, and to what you look for in hockey athletes today. But let's. Let's start with you and your personal story. You left home at 14 years old to pursue your hockey dreams. 

Zac Rinaldo [1:33 - 1:34]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:34 - 1:48]: 14 parents. That's. That's. Either you're there already with your kids, or you're not too far off or you're passed. Can you walk us through how you and your family made that decision and maybe what were some of the biggest lessons you learned from taking that leap at a young age? 

Zac Rinaldo [1:50 - 4:00]: I was invited to go to Notre Dame in Saskatchewan. Wilcox, Saskatchewan, Notre Dame Hounds with a friend of mine who's also trying to pursue the. The hockey journey. And he asked me to tag along with them. And it was. My parents were. It was up to me. Totally up to me. It was, Zach, do you want to go? Do you want to leave home? And there was zero hesitation. Zero. I didn't have to think twice. It was just, yes. They totally supported what I wanted to do. My decision. And I had a great time. I left home. I grew up really quickly in that year. I Was in a dorm with four other guys the same age, all doing the same thing. It was Wilcox. The school, it's literally in the middle of nowhere. So there's nothing else to do besides school and hockey, school and hockey, school and hockey. And during that year you have to do chores and you have a dorm leader and if you don't do your chores, you can't leave your dorm. So it was a very military style school where you learned a lot, lots of discipline. Again, you're so secluded from everybody, so you just have to deal with what you have. And again, I grew up very, very quickly. So leaving home at 14 throughout the whole school year, came back basically a year later and I was a totally different person. So I'm really thankful for that year because I learned a lot. I grew up a lot. I learned how to be self efficient at a young age, doing vacuuming, cleaning windows and cleaning the bathrooms and cleaning my dorm and making sure my bed was made. So I learned a lot of life skills doing that. And then on the hockey side of things, I had a really strong competitive team and we won a lot of games. It was a strong, rugged, western hockey competitive atmosphere in every game. So I learned a lot through hockey on the western side of things. I had a great time. I have no regrets on going there. I learned a lot, lived a lot. So yeah, it was a great time. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:01 - 4:05]: So kids can do their chores at 14 is what I heard there. Right. 

Christie Casciano [4:05 - 4:21]: For all the parents right at that age, for a lot of kids. Because you think about what kids at 14 like to do and ahead going to the junior prom and to do all the things with your friends in high school. So you do make sacrifices. 

Zac Rinaldo [4:21 - 5:00]: But absolutely, yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah. Honestly, I wanted to be free. I wanted to get out of my house. I've always wanted the freedom to make my own choices. I wanted the freedom to make mistakes. I wanted the freedom to make, again, make my own choices and not have mom or dad direct me or even give me any type of advice realistically. So I wanted that and that was a. The first chance I got to have my own freedom as a young kid and make my own choices. So at a young age I wanted that. And tag into the hockey aspect of it. Absolutely. I'm gone. 

Christie Casciano [5:01 - 5:14]: Interesting. Yeah. And the hockey piece of it, how difficult was it because you know, you're going into a whole new environment, new coaches, new players, Everything was so different for you, I'm sure. 

Zac Rinaldo [5:14 - 5:15]: Did you. 

Christie Casciano [5:15 - 5:16]: Was it tough to fit in? 

Zac Rinaldo [5:16 - 6:39]: At first, honestly, I. On the social side of things the way I've always conducted myself. I let my hockey speak for who I am at the beginning. So when the, you know, when I'm trying to make new friends, I know that realistic. Basically I'm going to make friends that are my teammates first. So I really need to show myself who I am on the ice first, get a feel for them on the ice so they can understand me on the ice. And if they, if I can connect and they can connect with me on the ice, it's just an easier transition off the ice, in the dressing room and then outside of the dressing room. So me going into that school and trying out, I had to make sure that I was going to be the hardest worker, one of the best players on the ice, because then that social aspect kind of just gravitated in those situations. So I made sure that I gave my best performance on the ice so that it was an easier transition in that social aspect of living in those dorms and going to school. But again, like every class I was in, I was with my teammates. So if there was 15 kids in class, 10 of them were my teammates. So, you know, balancing hockey and, and the school in the social aspect, again, the hockey was the foundation. So as long as I was good on the ice and work worked my ass off on the ice, I was okay on the social access aspect of things. 

Christie Casciano [6:39 - 6:45]: Okay, that's good to know for, you know, kids who are kind of debating whether or not that's right for them. So that's very. 

Zac Rinaldo [6:45 - 6:47]: Totally 100. 

Mike Bonelli [6:47 - 6:59]: Yeah. So, Zach, so, you know, I think, you know, your, your description, right, of where your youth hockey career was at 14 is, is basically, you know, where all these academy models are going right now. Right. So. 

Zac Rinaldo [6:59 - 6:59]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [7:00 - 7:11]: We're going through that system. You know, there are probably just a handful of people that, that could even attract that age of talent, you know, to come and do, you know, basically hockey full time right now. It's. 

Zac Rinaldo [7:11 - 7:12]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [7:12 - 8:11]: I don't want to say it's being watered down, but there's a lot of, you know, other programs that are putting this in place and almost taking and shifting, you know, the complete youth hockey model. Can you just talk a little bit about, you know, the experience you had vers what you're seeing, the development path today for players and how, you know, there's, there's, you know, because, because obviously in our, in our discussions that we have it, it. There'll be a lot of red flags with a 14 year old leaving for hockey. Right. But there's also a lot of great things that can happen. Obviously you turn that into a pro hockey career. You know, I don't know how many players that came in with you were playing pro hockey at the same time. But just, you know that, just that, that piece of development and how it's changed and how it's similar and maybe some of the pros and cons to it obviously work for you. But you know, what are some things you should look for when you're at, when you're, because you're coaching youth hockey now, so you obviously can tell every 14 year old you're working with. Like this is a great model for you to pursue. 

Zac Rinaldo [8:11 - 11:01]: Yeah, I think like for, for me when I was 14 and I went to Notre Dame again, that was, you know, a long time ago. So obviously society has changed and we have evolved in different aspects. But I think the foundation that was laid down for me before I went it was, I would just, I just worked hard. That's it. It was just my work ethic. And then when I went to that school there was no difference. They just demanded work ethic and the development on ice. It was all team related. It wasn't individual skill. So when you go, when you, when I was in these situations and it's two on ones, it's breakouts, it's regroups, it's, you're always, you know, you're always passing, you're always communicating with your team. There was always a team concept behind it. Necessary. Not necessarily he's going to be on my team. But when you're in those situations trying out for the team or you're practicing, it was never an individual session. There was no danglers, there was basically not many pylons. It was, you know, use the dots as your guideline, use the circles as your guideline, use the blue line and the red lines as your guideline. It was work ethic. It was somewhat to a degree, systems back, checking for checking. It was understanding the game on a system level mixed in with making plays and understanding defensive minded hockey now move along forward into where we are right now. It's very individual minded, which I can understand to a degree. But I think you, you want to, you want to develop the individual when they're ready for it. I think everyone develops at a different time. So I think understanding the player and knowing the player as a person first and a player second to then understand how they need to be developed. Because there's a lot of kids that do have that individual skill. But if you just keep doing the individual skill and individual skill. And individual skill. When they get put into a trial, they need to make a breakout pass or they need to do a two on one and make that simple two foot to five foot pass that's not in their bag. And then they really struggle to share the puck and to make plays. So you really need to understand that player. And I think if you connect with the player and understand what the player needs first and foremost, then you can add on to what the player needs. But it's so yes, it's in, it's individually minded, but you need to understand what that individual needs inside of their game, if that makes sense. 

Mike Bonelli [11:02 - 12:49]: Yeah, I think that's where you know, probably in a, in a structure that you were in growing up, which is, which is what a lot of people like ideally want, right for their kids is to be in a high tempo, high skill level group. But also understand that, you know, this is a team sport and your ability to play within a team concept is almost more important than your individual skill because you can be a, the best cone guy in the world. Right? You don't have your head up and can't make a play and your teammates hate you. Then there's a lot of, there's not a lot of places you can go play. Eventually your clock runs out. And I think that's right. You obviously started that journey so early, you know, you know, back when you were doing, I mean at 14, that's really early. But now we're seeing, you know, these, these teams get put together at eight, right. So I think it's. But, but you know, so what I see a lot, and maybe I'd love your opinion on this because of your, your world and youth hockey ranks right now is just that when you take that 8 year old and put them on these super teams and then that 8 year old has to, then what the parent sees is oh, they're on the team, they're understanding the team concept. But now I got to extract them with a private coach and do four or five days privately now with my player because he's not getting what you're talking about, Zach, which is the team piece. So you know, how do you, how do you juggle that? How do you say? Well no, no, we're, we're working, you are working on individual skill development. But we, but you do have to play on a team and, but, and you, and you can't skate seven days a week for two hours a day. At some point there needs to be some, some ratio of rest and rejuvenation Right. So maybe just like, how do you balance that as a coach right now? Well, I, I don't. 

Zac Rinaldo [12:49 - 15:26]: Yeah. Honestly, I try to stay. I try to stay away from the people calling me, asking to do one on one sessions or, you know, if there's more than, if there's more than, you know, six to eight guys on the ice. That's where I thrive. Yes, I can do individual things, but that's not where I thrive as a coach. I don't see the huge benefit. There's too many people doing that right now. There's not enough people like myself that want 20 kids on the ice, that can conduct a 20 kid practice. That and it's just me on the edge. I don't need four other instructors and I don't. Sometimes I don't think that there needs to be five instructors with 20 kids. One voice is more than enough, especially when that instructor knows exactly what he's trying to accomplish with the kids. But I try to stay away from the individual skill development. I want to teach them two on ones. I have the patience. I love breaking things down. I was on the ice last night with some 2011, some 2012s and mixing some 2000s and we were just doing simple transitions to the neutral zone. And a lot of them didn't understand that you can't be so far ahead of the other player. You need to be coming up the ice together so you can share the puck together. Because if I give that puck so far ahead of me, that player doesn't have anyone to pass you. And I'm so far behind. So I stay away from the individual skill. I love big groups. I want to conduct full practices. I want defensemen on the ice, I want forwards, I want centerman. I want to teach them the positions. I want to teach them the small, simple details that they're missing in these development, small group sessions. It's not talked about it enough. When you add into the social media stuff, yeah, it's rewarding that your instructor will put you on their Instagram page because you really did a cool, a cool shot or a cool dangle underneath the pylon. But that, that's going to have like you have the puck on your stick at a young age, maybe for one minute during the game. The rest of the time you're playing away from the puck, you're supporting the puck, you're playing a position, you're trying to understand what's going on the nine. That's 98% of the game. So. So I Want to teach that 98% away from the puck more than I want to teach possession with the puck, you know. 

Christie Casciano [15:27 - 15:31]: You know what's hard, too, is that a lot of parents don't buy into that right now. 

Zac Rinaldo [15:32 - 15:55]: No, they don't. They don't. But what I'm, what I'm finding. What I'm finding is that if you can, if you can connect with the kids on a personal level and really break it down, simple for the kids to understand, and they're having fun while doing it, I, I'm finding the parents are. Are. They're slowly coming around to that concept. That's good. 

Lee MJ Elias [15:55 - 16:02]: I, I was gonna say, Zach, if there's a choir for you to preach to, it's. You're on that show right now. 

Zac Rinaldo [16:03 - 16:03]: All right. 

Mike Bonelli [16:04 - 16:12]: My head going. I, I thought, I thought everybody wanted to do one on one lessons and not. And, you know, and, and work on three hours of shooting. When you get to shoot once. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:12 - 16:13]: I'm bringing this up. 

Mike Bonelli [16:13 - 16:14]: That. 

Zac Rinaldo [16:14 - 16:14]: That's. 

Mike Bonelli [16:14 - 17:05]: No, no doubt. There's, There's a lot of, A lot of pressure points there. Right. Because I think, you know, you know, Zach, when we talk, I mean, I, I. Virtually every single professional person we talk to about development is speaking like, you're speaking, but every program that we see is doing the opposite. So it's almost like, you know, you say, like, who is, who is leading in development? And, and again, there's a, there's a, there's, there's the, the organizations that take advantage of parents that don't know, and then the parents that don't know thinking that, you know, this is a, this is a better. Like you said, it's, it's. There's some kid that, you know, played high school hockey that's an Instagram phenom, you know, teacher, and it looks great because my kid could get more follows. So I think it's. There's a big difference between development and, and structure. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:05 - 17:06]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [17:06 - 17:07]: And clicks. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:07 - 17:53]: I want to say this too, because again, we have been preaching this on the show, Mike. Like, you know, you think you'd want to find a way for your kid to stand out. And the thing is, when you're doing what everybody else is doing, you're not gonna stand out. You know, and, and Zach, the other thing, too, multiple coaches at the highest levels, like, not one. Like, a lot of them are saying, yeah, hockey IQ is the lowest I've ever seen it in my 10, 20, 30 year coaching career. So logic would dictate. Now, I'm not saying there's a ton of logic in new sports, but logic would dictate that teaching your kid that side of the game. What you're doing, Zach, is really invaluable. I can tell you right now. We're recording this episode kind of like in the eval season, right? The eval and the Trouts. 

Zac Rinaldo [17:53 - 17:53]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:53 - 18:05]: And I know a very talented player that did not make the team he wanted to make. And the reason was. And I read it was. Did not pass the puck one time, tried to dangle through everyone. And he. 

Zac Rinaldo [18:05 - 18:05]: And. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:05 - 19:15]: And he can do it. And it's like, just not. Not what we're looking for. It's not what we need right now. This kid needs more development. So I. I agree with you, Zach. I think the tide. We got a long way to go. Mike, to your point. I think the tide is starting to turn that the ability and. And this is the thing, Zach, that. That I try and preach to the parents and the kids. The game is so beautiful when you see the full chess match and not just the one piece. Like when you can see that symphony. It is. It. I mean, it's still kind of a simple game in a lot of ways, but it's so much. It's so beautiful. If you can learn that. And it starts at 6 you and 8U. By reminding parents and kids that assists are worth just as much as goals, you know, and then developing to that. I. I love. I love that you like to watch hockey highlights. Most plays are not that play. And that you've got to look beyond it. And they. And then again in the coaching, Zach, like you just said, creating the environments in practice where the reward. Mike says this all the time. The reward is not scoring the goal. The reward is a team play. Mike made a great point on a previous episode. The. The finish of every drill doesn't need to be a shot on net. 

Zac Rinaldo [19:15 - 19:16]: That's right. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:16 - 19:24]: No, it doesn't have to be the goal. Like you said, like understanding the neutral zone transition. What a win. I'm actually turning this into a question or. Go ahead. 

Mike Bonelli [19:24 - 19:25]: Go ahead. 

Zac Rinaldo [19:25 - 19:25]: Go ahead. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:25 - 19:26]: Christine. 

Christie Casciano [19:26 - 19:47]: I think there's a lot more to talk about with his coaching career, but I think we would be remiss not to dive a little bit and hit the reverse button and talk about your career in the NHL. 11 years. Do you have a favorite memory? A couple of moments that just you hold close to your heart that you could share with us and. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:47 - 19:48]: Why don't you age? 

Mike Bonelli [19:49 - 19:50]: Why don't you age? 

Lee MJ Elias [19:50 - 19:50]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [19:50 - 19:52]: You look like a kid. 

Zac Rinaldo [19:53 - 19:56]: I'm trying to have the beer. Disguise my baby face. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:56 - 19:57]: Me too. 

Zac Rinaldo [19:57 - 22:53]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, it was. I was a Flyer fan growing up as a kid, like Die Hard, I was an Eric Lindross fan. And all the Flyer, all the Philadelphia people, all the Flyer fans, the organization knows this. I grew up a Flyer fan. Eight years old, I had a Flyer birthday cake. Nothing more I love doing. Nothing more I love doing than watching Eric Lindross score goals, hit people, forecheck, and just play his game. So, number one, just being drafted to the Flyers was literally a dream come true. And then, you know, making the team and putting that jersey on for the first time, playing my first game in the playoffs, I lined up against Mark Rechy. Like, that is just really, you know, surreal to a degree for me. But the number one thing is what an award that I won in Philadelphia, the Gene Hart Memorial Award that is voted by the fans, that they vote on who the player played with the most heart during that season. For me, I take pride in my work ethic. I take pride in. I definitely still will always take pride in wearing that jersey and giving my heart and soul to that team. So being acknowledged not just by the organization, but by the fans to deserve that award, that, that whole day, that night, that. That just. That award I'll forever be grateful and thankful for, that was number one. Number two, just. Just all the. The just. Or the arenas and just a feeling. It's not necessarily one point, wasn't one goal or one hit feeling that I got from just living the whole life and playing in those arenas and the emotion that I got before games and to be honest with you, I loved hitting. I loved hitting people I loved. That was just. It came so easy to me, like, you know, like Connor McDavid or Matthews or Ovechkin. Goals come easy for them. They know how to find the ice, they know how to shoot. They know where to be. Hitting came so easy to me. I knew where the play was going to. I know how the play was going to develop. I knew who was going to get the puck before they got it so I can set myself up to be there before they got it. That. That is an art that I was born with. That is an art that is lost. And for me, I was just very thankful that I could do something I love to do, which is be physical and be rewarded for it and be seen for it. So, yeah, the. Between the. The Gene Hart Memorial being drafted by the Flyers and just doing what I'd love to do was bring in a physical, fast presence on the ice and being rewarded for it. Everything the whole career was, was awesome. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:54 - 23:43]: You know, I, I gotta say, as the resident Flyers fan here, you know, there's certain athletes, you look at Zach and you go, that guy's a flyer. And you, you were one of them from the start. And what's cool is that I always joke at this point of the episode, you know, we get a lot of eye rolls from non Flyers fans. I'm like, but nobody likes us and we don't care. And that, that really is kind of the attitude. But one of the things you did so well here in addition to your play was you made a connection with the fans. Right? So I actually do want to ask a question of is there an importance to that? How can athletes look to do that? You know, where is your gauge on that? Because you, you look like it's no surprise that winning that heart Memorial, what you're saying, you really did make an impact and a connection and people remember you here. Right? You know? 

Zac Rinaldo [23:43 - 23:44]: Yeah, so. 

Lee MJ Elias [23:44 - 23:51]: So I. Look, I can't say that about every athlete that's ever played here. Like, people remember. So. So how do you make that connection? How important is that connection? 

Zac Rinaldo [23:52 - 26:31]: That, that connection is number one for me. That, that started in my OHL career when again, because I portray this character on the ice, that I'm unpredictable, that I'm a loose cannon. And a lot of people thought that that's who I was off the ice. So when I started to hear people like, you know, this has started definitely in London when we're doing autograph sessions after games or public appearances, and I was nice to people and people would say, oh my God, you're so nice. And I'm thinking, well, yeah, like, why wouldn't I be nice? Like, right? Because they're thinking, that's who I am on the ice. So, I mean, and I'm rough on the ice, so I'm. Why would I be nice off the ice? So that really hit me hard. So I really wanted to make a connection with everybody and the team and the, the organization and the. In the city, in the town that I was playing in that, like, I'm actually genuinely a good person. Who I am on the ice, that's who I am on the ice. But off the ice, I'm grounded. I'm down to earth. I work hard, just like, you know, the blue collar people in Philadelphia. I. I'm the same. I'm the same as you guys. When I go on the ice, I'm a different animal. I'm a different Breed. Yeah, that's exactly. That's correct. So when I, you know, play for different teams and I played for different organizations, getting connected inside the community and inside of the organization was number one, because if they understood who I was as a person, they would probably like me more as a player. So that's why I always went into town a month and a half before training camp, so they can get to know me, so they can see my. My personality off the ice, in the dressing room, in the weight room, away from the rink to now, okay, he's totally different. So when I get on the ice, he's this way, but off the ice, he's a totally different way. But connecting inside of the community is number one, because you get the support from the fans, you get support from the organization. It just the. The level of respect you get just doing those things is heartwarming. It's. It's fulfilling. It's. It's everything. That's what a pro athlete does. You give back to the community. That's what. That's what you do. The first thing I did, the first thing I always wanted to do when I made the NHL, is come back and put a community event on, and I did that for five years in a row. Again, that just comes with the territory of being a pro athlete. Give back. Because again, it just. Just what it is. It's just what you do. It's just the right thing to do. 

Mike Bonelli [26:32 - 28:25]: Zach, can you talk about that a little bit from, like, the youth hockey perspective on. I mean, it certainly sounds like you knew your role and you knew that your role on that team wasn't. Not that you wouldn't want to score a ton of goals, right? But that your role wasn't to score goals on the teams you played on. Your role sounded more like it was a, you know, something to get the team going, get. Get your line involved, get your team to change momentum and, you know, just maybe, maybe for the youth hockey kids, listen, and actually probably coaches, too, because, I mean, giving. Giving the accolades to just the kid that put the puck in the net or maybe just a goalie that makes some saves. What we lack, I think, in today's youth game is, like, the ability for players to be in a role, to understand that you don't have to be like, this person, this Persona off the ice different than on the ice or vice versa. Like, you could be like, I. I love. Like, that's probably why I love, like, high school hockey and. And teams when you can play college hockey, like, teams that you could play for longer periods of time because, because people that love those teams and coaches that coach those teams get to really start to see all the different pieces that, that are involved in winning and, and, and see and you know, so maybe just real quick for you, you know, just from the youth hockey perspective, for a youth player to understand that, you know, okay, you, maybe you're not seen as the guy who's going to get put on the power play all the time, but what can you do mentally to prepare yourself to show that, listen, I'm going to be a team guy here and I'm also going to get embraced by my teammates and in our case, parents. And yeah, I, I, I love listening to parents says, oh, we're really going to miss that player. No points, maybe took a couple of bad penalties. You know, you never really, never really made an impact on like changing the game. Like didn't win in a big game, but everybody's gonna miss that player because they did something in that locker room and on the ice that contributed team success. 

Zac Rinaldo [28:26 - 31:20]: Yeah, that's right. Like, so for me growing up, I was a captain of all my teams. I scored goals, I hit, I, I kind of did it all. But when I got drafted, I was a 14th round pick to the OHL. So I, I, me personally, I had to adapt. I wasn't going to outscore the first round or like it just realistically that's what it is. So I had to, I had to find, I had to just rely on other tools that I had in my toolbox. That's why I think it's so important, you know, going back to that individual skill development. We need to, and players need to understand that you need to be, you need to have so many tools in your toolbox so that you can pull out whatever tools you need to, to fit in. I think we're so focused on, and I, I have the same problem with a lot of my guys on my team. It's really hard for them to accept third line, fourth line roles because everyone wants to be the same player and not there's not one person in the world that is the same as the next. So how can you be the same? How can we have a team of 25 kids doing, trying to do the exact same thing? It won't work. You won't have a winning team, you won't be success, I won't be successful as a coach, you guys won't be successful as a team, you won't win, you won't get scouts, you won't get Noticed you won't move on. So that's why it's so important for kids to understand that you need to have so many different unique tools in your toolbox. Because if you go to a team and the coach says, all right, I need you killing penalties, I need you to be in physical. Dump the puck in four Jack. And when you get offensive opportunities, try to capitalize offensive opportunities. That's hard for kids to get into right now. And I, like, I struggle with telling kids that that's going to be their role because I know they won't accept it. So I have to make it and is honestly, it's up to the coaches right now. In this day and age, it is up to the coaches to make it. To make it, you know, I use it to make it sexy. You have to show that these kids like doing. That is. That's fun. That is one of the. That's what's going to get you to the next level. That's what's going to help the team thrive. And sometimes you need to dangle a certain carrot in front of them and show them video and praise them in video. And you have to. You have to praise these kids these days, which is fine. It's all good and dandy. But that coach, 100% is going to be the. The. The person that dictates that kid buying into that role or not. So again, it's on to the. It's onto the kids to accept it. You can bring the kids to the water, but they have to drink. But again, every player starting from the grassroots all the way up, they need to work on fine tuning all parts of their game. So when that coach says, hey, I need you doing this and that, he's like, okay, no problem. I could do this and that. All right, here we go. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:20 - 31:21]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [31:21 - 33:00]: And your actions, right, that has to. That has to come, like you're saying, from the coach. Like, that coach has to embrace those shot blocks, Those, you know, 3D plays in the corner, those first guys on pucks on power, you know, on. On forecheck. Like, you. If you mirror that, if you say, like, I. This is what I value, then your players, not only will they love being that player, right? They, like, like, that's why, like, I've never understood, like, picking a team. Like, we've talked about this hundreds of times. Like, you pick a team and then you don't play all the kids. I'm like, well, why'd you pick the team? Like, your job is to get those other kids to play. Now maybe Maybe they don't play, you know, 55 shifts, but they have to have a role or you don't get them back and they don't develop. And what the hell, you're not even coaching then. You're just managing getting a kid in and getting a kid out. So I think, like, yeah, so if you're a coach and you're listening to Zach right now, it's like, find a way to get every one of those players to understand where they fit in the team. But then you have to sell it to your team because, like, I love when I see. And I see this on my own kids teams. Like, I love it when my son says, coach, you got to put so and so in. Like, he hasn't gotten any ice time. And me as a parent, I'm like, well, screw that kid. Get all the ice time you can. You should be on the ice every ship. But he knows, you know, in. In 15 games, I might not be here or I might get hurt or I might not. Maybe I. I'm not sick that day. You got to have a player that doesn't. That. That feels they have value, right? That could jump in and, and give you some effort. And I don't think you can do that if you just put the kids on the end of the pine, if they even have pine anymore, maybe on the end of the plastic and just. And just, you know, and just have them sit there and be like, okay, I'm part of. Are you really part of a team? It doesn't seem like you are. 

Zac Rinaldo [33:00 - 35:16]: Yeah, no, I think. And that, that's where I think some coaches fall short, where they don't want. Like, for me, reloading. Reloading was the key to our success. As soon as my team bought into reloading, which is, you know, essentially backtracking, but just staying above the puck in all situations. Reloading hard. That was the key to our success when we started to, you know, win a lot of games at the end of the year. But then I had to go into video and I had to find us reloading and that as a coach, you know, I'm still, you know, trying to understand the whole coaching world. And it's challenging for a coach to go in to a, to a, to a video to watch your game back to find reload clips. Like, that's challenging. That's not easy for a coach. You have to sift through all these shifts just to find good work ethic on the reloads, clip it and then show it and praise that. And that's where I think some coaches fall short because the easiest thing is to find the highlight reels and praise the guys who are. That have the puck. But it's hard for a coach, and it's. It's a lot of work and time consuming to sift through the game and clip things that aren't, Aren't. Aren't sexy, to be honest with you. But it's those little details that you need to praise these role players, these character players. You need to praise them with those moments in the video to instill their confidence that they're doing the right thing. And for me, one example, when I was in Calgary, we were playing San Jose, and one of the players on. On San Jose was coming by our bench, and he was. He was chirping our bench, and. And Tkachuk, he went to our coach, he was like, why. Why aren't you putting Zach on? Like, what is going on here? Like, you need to put Zach on right now. I looked up to the coach. I'm like, he's right. Like, why aren't you putting me out there? So you put me out there. I asked. I asked the player to fight. The player declined. He's. He got scared. He. He didn't cover me defensively. I got the puck, I shot, I scored. So it does trickle down into the team to notice, like, hey, we're losing or we're winning. Let's put some of these guys on. And that communication between players and coaches needs to also exist as well. That's a healthy bench. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:16 - 35:23]: I'll say, too, that in youth hockey, parents, you play a role in helping your kids. 

Zac Rinaldo [35:23 - 35:24]: Oh, absolutely. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:24 - 35:37]: Understand that role. Now, here's the thing, and I was going to say this. I've been writing notes. You know, roles are insanely important on a hockey team at most ages. Right. Again, when you're at the 6U8, you. You're gonna play every single role that you have to. Right? 

Zac Rinaldo [35:37 - 35:38]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:38 - 35:46]: But as you get older, I always said this to my players. You don't have to love your role, but you're lucky or fortunate to have a role. Right. Like, a role means you're part of the team. 

Zac Rinaldo [35:46 - 35:47]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:47 - 37:32]: And as you said, you know, it's all experience, it's all learning. All right? If you think you're a goal scorer and your coach is asking you to be, you know, a bottom six four checker, I know that's not what you want, but it's an important role for the team. And just. Just to give the parents listening an idea, you know, I was with a 10U team last year, we created roles and we didn't hide it. We knew who our goal scorers were. Right. And. And I'm not going to tell someone who's developing heavily, you need to be like them. No, it's. We're going to work to help you get them the puck or work to be a better defensive player in our zone, because that's what we need to do. And there's nothing worse than working on that as a coach and a parent telling their kid who really is not a goal scorer, while you're a goal scorer and you should be on the first line, you're not helping at all. And I, I can tell you parents, there's no path if you, if your dream kids and parents, if your dream is to play at a high level, there's no high level where you don't have a role. All right? And there's no high level where you're probably going to get a role that you just love or, or that you think that it's you. You've gotta. You've gotta adapt. The best example of this is Steve Yzerman. Again, for the younger fans and, and younger parents, you might not remember this. This guy was a goal scoring magician the first half of his career. And then he transformed into a defensive forward under Scotty Bowman and won a bunch of cups. He completely changed the way he played hockey. This is one of the greatest players of all time, changing his role for his team. So it, it happens. All right? So I, I just, you know, Zach, I'll let you kind of have the final thought on the topic, but it's like, it's okay to establish roles. Coaches, you got to be realistic with them. And again, when the kids are young, it's not about locking them into one thing. You got to develop them, but it's okay to have roles and learn from that. 

Christie Casciano [37:32 - 37:44]: Right? And we highly encourage parents. If you don't get what is going on, if the dynamics don't seem right to you, you understand what your kid's role is rather than undermine what the coach is trying to do. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:45 - 37:47]: Texting them on the bench. Right, Mike? Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [37:47 - 39:22]: Yeah. You don't want to do that. You don't want to do that. I think. And Zach, I think you're. And Lee brought it up too, right? Roles evolve. Your role in September might not be your role. You earn your role. You really are earn it then. Then figure out a way to say, what the hell am I doing that I, that coach and the other 16 players on my team don't think that that's who I am. Like so accomplish, you know, and you know, you, you then get up the chain of command. You start to work and, and develop different skill set adding to your toolbox. Like, you know, who knows what your role is going to be. But I think having a diversity of ability and having a diversity of turning your brain and being something that maybe you don't want to be today is going to help you be a different player tomorrow is really all the evolution of why we do this. Right. If you're a coach, your job is to evolve that player and to play different parts. Now one, because we see it all the time. There's. There's a million first line centerman, but we can only take one. So if you can't be a third line centerman, you get cut. There's no, there's no room for you on the team. Because yes, we, and I've seen this in evaluation processes a lot right that, well, he's the, he's got to be in the top seven, right? It might be, but in our team he doesn't fit in to the top seven. Never accept the bottom three roll. If you never accept that you get cut and you get moved on and be a best. Be the great player on a different team. But on this team, I need you to buy in like to your to. You're saying, and I love the fact that you have other. That you. That you're talking about your teammates saying, we know this guy's role. 

Zac Rinaldo [39:22 - 39:22]: That's right. 

Mike Bonelli [39:22 - 39:25]: Get him out there, like help, help me. 

Zac Rinaldo [39:25 - 39:26]: That's right. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:26 - 39:29]: Chuck guy might be pretty good. I'm told the Kachuk guy you were talking about. 

Mike Bonelli [39:30 - 40:00]: Yeah, he's a good boat, you know, he's had a good hand. Well, he knows how to talk to coaches. But I think if you, if you, if you're, if you're just in a great. It's a great opportunity I think for young kids too, to say, you know, if I'm the player who think. If I think I'm the best player on the ice, I have so much power over my coach. I could help my teammates. Like be the kid that can help your teammate succeed. Because I'll tell you, like Zach, I'm sure you would do anything for that player. Like after that player said, you gotta put Zach out there, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna. 

Zac Rinaldo [40:00 - 40:07]: Well, that's why I went out there. That's why I was like, yeah, absolutely, like 100%. I, you. I already knew that I should have been out there. 

Mike Bonelli [40:08 - 40:24]: Right. But I'm gonna make you look good. Like you're, you stepping up and saying this, I'm gonna support, I'm gonna make you look good. And I think there's nothing better for a player to feel like that bench piece is there where I'm supporting you because you're supporting me. You know, I did my job. Now you go out and do your job. 

Zac Rinaldo [40:24 - 40:25]: That's right. That's right. 

Mike Bonelli [40:25 - 40:58]: This is so much lacking today in building these, these mercenary super teams because everybody thinks they're the same kid. And yes, can you win a couple of games down the road? But, but, but, you know, when it, when it all comes to why I think a lot of parents want their kids to play sport, it's to keep climbing the ladder and, and being a better person and using sport to help them be that. Then, then you've got to learn that. Well, hey, there's, there's, you know, it's why, you know, janitors can become CEOs, right? You have to, you have to know, like, where am I starting so that I can develop into somebody better. 

Zac Rinaldo [40:58 - 42:12]: That's right. Like, I put, I love, I love putting some of my players in adversity on purpose. That needs to happen. I, I, you know, if I had a couple incidents this year where my top, my couple of them top six guys, they got hurt or they were sick and they missed a week of practice, they missed a handful of games and they come back into the dressing room and they see the lineup and on the fourth line, well, someone else stepped into your, into your spot and they were successful in that spot. So now you're, you're a first line guy, but now you're going to go through a little adversity and now you're going to, now you're going to learn certain tools on that fourth line role. Now you got a four check. Now you got to be a little more hungry on the pucks. Now you got to really play good defensively. So you, then you, once I see that happening, okay, now you're back up to where you really need to be. But you've learned a little bit. You've learned some forechecking, you've learned a little bit of grind, you learn a little bit of that, and now you can bring what you learned back up to that first line, and now you're a better player for it. So I think coaches need to put kids into challenging adversity spots to see how they handle it and, you know, have them go through a little bit of turmoil. Before they go back to where they need to be. 

Christie Casciano [42:12 - 42:19]: Do you, you get some pushback on that and do you explain to them what's going on or you let them figure it out? 

Zac Rinaldo [42:20 - 43:11]: It depends on who the player is and what, who they are as a person. Sometimes I just put them there to see how they are going to handle it. I know what I'm doing the whole time. I'm not just blind to the fact, but I, sometimes I know the kid is emotional. I know he's going to be pissed off and I'm okay with that. I'm, I am. I'm okay with that. So then it's up to that player. If he's, if he's upset, if he, you know, if he hates me for it, come talk to me. Knock on my door. I have an open door policy. No problem. Come talk to me. Tell me your frustrations. Tell me, tell me you're mad at me. Tell me you're pissed. Tell me, you know, let me know how mad you are. Because then I can see your passion. Because then I'll tell you what I want to see from you. And we move forward from there. Like it's not a matter of if they get back there, it's just a matter of when. 

Christie Casciano [43:11 - 43:24]: Right. And I think that's really important that players need to step up and have those conversations. A lot of them might just kind of hold it in and, and like you said, just hate on you, right? They can, yeah, they need some help figuring it out. Don't be afraid. 

Zac Rinaldo [43:24 - 44:46]: A lot of them do talk to the coach. Yeah, a lot of them, A lot of them think that a lot of coaches are mind readers. And then I'll see if they don't come talk to me. And I see their body language and they're moping around the room and they're not vocal on the ice and they're not trying on the ice. But at the same time, I'm dealing with 16 to 20 year olds, so it's a little different. Where they need to struggle on their own sometimes. They need to figure things out on their own sometimes. And if that takes two or three days without communication and he's going through a negative body language week of practice, then he needs to go through that without me holding his hand, without me going to him all the time. He needs to take some initiative, he needs to think about it, he needs to digest it, he needs to go through those emotional waves. But at a certain point he hasn't come talk to me and he's still dealing with it, then I'll bring him in, we'll talk about it, and we'll figure it out. But I do want my players to go through adversity in the right moments of their life, in the right moments of the season to create a strong character, a strong foundation again. These kids are their kids still. They're still growing, they're still learning, they're still in puberty, realistically. So they're learning a lot about themselves and I'm just a part of their journey and helping them move along through adversity, realistically. 

Mike Bonelli [44:46 - 45:22]: I think that's, that's one of the biggest anxiety, that's one of the biggest anxieties, right. As a coach sometimes is knowing when and if to push buttons on when and, and who you can do it with. Like, there's, there's a lot of people that just, you know, throw stuff on the wall and say, hope that sticks there. Right. It's really so important to know your kids and say, am I, am I doing this for head games? Am I doing this for motivation? Am I doing this just to see, geez, can I get something out of this kid? Like, one way or the other? But knowing that, you know, there's some, there's other kids, though, that just, you know, I think it's just the ability to, to see when I'm doing this, do I know when to pull the plug. 

Zac Rinaldo [45:22 - 45:23]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [45:23 - 45:26]: And, and, and not go to a point where now I've lost the player. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:26 - 45:27]: That's the, that's right. 

Mike Bonelli [45:27 - 45:32]: And I think that's a real, that's the art of coaching. Some people coach and some people don't. 

Zac Rinaldo [45:32 - 46:36]: Yeah. I think like, you might. Good coaches, good coaches are able to, you know, sometimes they might go too far and leave it for an extra day. But I think a good coach, even if you have lost that player, the, the conversation, you have to get that player back, you need to be very sympathetic, you need to be very, very open minded. You need to be almost apologetic if you've lost that player to a degree, like, I have no problem. I'm saying, like, hey, you know, sorry, I probably should have thrown you back into the situation a day earlier that I think if you show the human side of, of you as a coach, it just brings that player back down to earth. Brings that player back and he might get knocked at the full buy in right away. But slowly he'll back to understand, especially if he's back that first line, he's playing good, he's back on the power plays, feeling good. Because at the End of it. When that, then when that player does break through the, the barrier, when that player goes from that fourth line back up to the first line, starts succeeding, then you bring him in again and it's like, can I swear on here? I'm good. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:36 - 46:37]: Go for it. 

Zac Rinaldo [46:37 - 46:55]: Yeah. And then it's like, it's like, right, kid, like, I knew you could do it. Like, you just battle through a little bit of. It's all good, man. I'm so proud you. Let's keep moving forward, then they're on top of the world and if they go through adversity anywhere else in their life, they'll probably remember that moment. It's going to be all, all good. I'll battle through it. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:55 - 46:57]: Yeah, we can be anything on everybody. 

Mike Bonelli [46:57 - 46:58]: Finally, somebody swearing. 

Zac Rinaldo [46:58 - 46:59]: Okay, cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:59 - 47:39]: Yeah, no, you're, you're fine. But listen, sound like a tremendous coach and I love that you just said the, the, you know, the empathy and the sympathy and being able to apologize, because I really do think that's where coaching is going, is having a human side to it with the understanding that, look, I'm the coach, I'm the one who makes the decisions. But, you know, we can all grow together here. I think, you know, we had Mike Keenan on the show recently who, who is a very old school coach and even he at this point of his life talking about, yeah, you know, I was very clear and I would push buttons, but I cared about my players and absolutely saying that. So listen, I loved every aspect of the show today, man. You really covered everything. We got to finish. We got, we had some quick rapid fire questions. That's okay. 

Christie Casciano [47:40 - 47:41]: Okay, you want me to start? 

Lee MJ Elias [47:41 - 47:44]: You go for it, Chris. Christy loves rapid fire. She loves it. Go ahead. 

Christie Casciano [47:44 - 47:53]: Kind of already did the first one. Maybe his favorite memory. So we covered that. So let's do number two, most underrated skill in hockey today. 

Mike Bonelli [47:53 - 47:54]: Go. 

Zac Rinaldo [47:56 - 47:58]: 50. 50 puck battles. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:58 - 48:02]: Oh, it's a good one. That's a good one. We don't hear too often. I like that. 

Zac Rinaldo [48:02 - 48:03]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:03 - 48:10]: The other one we're going to ask everybody is this. I mean, this is a loaded question. I'm not gonna lie to you. But one piece of advice you give every young hockey player you coach. 

Zac Rinaldo [48:10 - 48:12]: Play every shift like it's your last. 

Mike Bonelli [48:13 - 48:15]: That every shift. 

Zac Rinaldo [48:15 - 49:00]: Yeah, that was instilled in me at 8 years old. I man, like, shit. Every shift has to play like it's your last because you don't know if you're going to get another one. You might get hurt, you might get benched. You need to Play every shift like it's going to be your last. And you need to make an impression every single time you were out there. I grew up, I was told my, my dad had a different philosophy. It was one big hit every single shift that's done from 8 years old because it was contact 8 years old. So every shift, I was trying to make an impact in anything I was doing. And today's society, I see a lot of kids taking shifts off, just be satisfied with nothing shifts. Take nothing shifts. That's okay. But play every shift like it's your last. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:00 - 49:15]: I. I love it, Zach, you know what? I can feel the gratitude in you for the game, in the way you're saying that, and I think that that's, that's a wonderful way to end the episode. So, Zach Ronaldo, wow, great episode today, man. We did that in 50 minutes, guys. 

Zac Rinaldo [49:15 - 49:15]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:15 - 49:16]: Thanks so much. 

Zac Rinaldo [49:16 - 49:18]: I like this a lot. This is cool. This is great. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:18 - 50:03]: Well, we're going to keep you on for the ride to the rinks and don't go anywhere yet, all right? And listen, I'll end this episode, gang. Thanks for listening. Remember, your kids, they have that ride to the Ring of episode coming out Thursday, so make sure you listen to that. For Christy Cash on a Burns, Mike Pinelli, I'm Lee Elias. Zach Ronaldo here today. Thanks for listening to this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. See you next time. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, Our Kids Play Hockey dot com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops at When Hockey Stop. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.