Are You Cut Out To Be A Coach?... Ask The Experts!

This week on Our Kids Play Hockey, Christie takes over the host seat to ask the big question: what does it really take to be a great coach in youth hockey?

With Mike and Lee in the hot seat, we dive deep into the reality of coaching—far beyond X’s and O’s. From balancing passion and pressure to dealing with criticism, managing parents, and constantly learning, they break down the challenges and rewards that come with the title of “Coach.”

Whether you’re thinking about coaching for the first time or have years behind the bench, this episode is full of candid stories, practical insights, and hard-earned wisdom about what makes a coach successful—not just in wins, but in shaping better athletes and people.

In this episode, we cover:

• 🏒 The unexpected ways coaches get started—and stay in the game
• 📚 Why the best coaches never stop learning
• 🧠 How emotional intelligence and communication are just as important as strategy
• 💬 What coaching parents need to know before signing up
• 💥 Why “passion” isn’t always enough—and what it really takes to commit
• 📋 The role of certifications and what those coaching levels actually mean

From locker room lessons to life skills, this conversation pulls back the curtain on coaching youth hockey in today’s world—and why it’s one of the most challenging, yet meaningful, roles in the sport.

📬 Got questions or thinking about coaching yourself? Drop us a note at team@ourkidsplayhockey.com or connect with us in the Our Kids Play Hockey Facebook group!

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Transcript

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 0:37]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another edition of our Kids Play Hockey. It's Lee Elias with Christy Casciano Burns and Mike Benelli Today, and I have been asked to step down as host of this show. You've heard it right here on this episode only. Sorry for those of you who may have wanted that for longer because Christy Cashiana Burns is going to take over today. She has questions for, for Mike and I and she said, I'm gonna come on today and I'm gonna run this show. And Mike and I were said, that's great. We love that idea. Christy, I'm gonna hand the mic over to you. 

Christie Casciano [0:37 - 0:39]: You guys are in the hot seat today. 

Lee MJ Elias [0:39 - 0:40]: I like it. 

Christie Casciano [0:40 - 1:05]: So the topic today is coaching, and are you cut out to be a coach? Both of you have quite a bit of experience as coaches, so let's start out introducing both of you to our audience levels of coaching. Mike, I know you, you, you've probably coached at all different levels of hockey. Tell everybody how much coaching experience you have and who you've coached, what, what. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05 - 1:11]: Ages and how you still have your hair, man. Like, mine's gone. I don't understand how you, you have a full head of hair. 

Mike Bonelli [1:11 - 2:06]: I have no stress. I have no stress. So. Yeah, so, so I've, well, I've coached at every level. I've coached, you know, formally at pro level, NCAA, Division 3 club, ACHA, prep school, high school. I think my, my largest chunk is in youth hockey, obviously because of the, my, my beginning of my career was from coaching to building ranks and building programs. So I've got a, I've got an opportunity to work with boys, girls, the disabled athletes, blind athletes, hearing impaired athletes. So it's been, it's been a very fun journey coaching wise and also get to dabble a little bit in lacrosse coaching as well. So I would say I've, I think I've covered the, the, the, the full gamut of coaching opportunities for myself, which. 

Christie Casciano [2:06 - 2:20]: Makes you the perfect voice on this podcast. And we appreciate when you chime in and share your experiences and observations. It's so helpful. And Lee, tell everybody how much coaching experience you have and where you've been, where it's taken you. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:20 - 3:26]: Yeah, I feel like Mike's a mentor to me. I kind of follow in his footsteps. So it's funny, my coaching journey began by accident. I had just, you know, been graduated out of undergrad for a few years and I, I had a, a short cup of coffee in the minors or semi pro and then Suddenly, the collegiate team that I played for needed a coach. And I believe I was 22, 23 years old, and I kind of took the job to somebody saying, why would you want to do this? That's what they said to me in my interview. So I started out as a head coach in college, and from there, like Mike, I've been all over the place. I've coached pro in Europe, international hockey, recently spent a lot of time in youth hockey and college as well. So it's all over the place. You know, Mike reminded me too, it's important. We've coached other sports too. I've worked with basketball teams and football teams and across the board, different things, but really there's no age group that I haven't coached now at this point. But really that that experience, Christy of across the board has only only made the. The coaching better, right? From the knowledge standpoint. 

Christie Casciano [3:27 - 3:54]: Another reason why it's great to have both of you on this podcast because of your levels of experience. But I'm just curious, so when coaching comes colleague, how do you know you're cut out for it? Let's say there are men and women listening right now, kind of on the fence about coaching. What does it take today to be a coach? How do you know you're right for the job? Lee, we'll start with you. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:54 - 4:53]: Yeah, you know, I'm thinking about that question as you ask it. It's actually quite hard to describe, Christy. It's part of the obsession of the sport, right? Just your love for the game, but a desire to teach and share what you've learned along the way. I mean, I think that's how it starts, right? Is that you want to share what you know. Now, we've talked about this a lot on the show. The early years of that can look very different than the later years. I think in the early years I had a little bit more of a I need to tell you what I know. That was kind of the attitude and over time that's evolved into. I'm sorry. So fortunate to be able to share the knowledge with these people. You know, a little bit of ego and non ego there, but the desire to teach and then, and then also to lead, you know, as a group, obviously. But to get people together to believe in something communally is really a special thing. And it takes a special type of person. It might, you know, Mike, Michael, I say this the mic too. It might be even easier to know if you don't want to do it. 

Christie Casciano [4:53 - 4:53]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:53 - 4:57]: I think the people who don't want to do it are like. Yeah, yeah. I don't ever want to be behind a bench. 

Mike Bonelli [4:57 - 4:57]: That's fair. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:58 - 5:10]: But there's a, there's a calling, right, Mike? I mean, there's a, there's this feeling of like, I, I have to share this and I want to, I want to lead teams to, to a place where they can grow and learn and obviously win. Like, winning is part of it. It's addictive. 

Mike Bonelli [5:11 - 7:19]: Yeah. I mean, that's a, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting question because I'm not even sure if I'm still able to do it. Like, it's, you know, it's. You. Every. Because you, you, you go into every opportunity, hopefully, with a different mindset and a different structure and a different outcome that you expect, or you go into it with a different expectation. I think, you know, having coached it, you know, I look at a guy like, like Schaefer right. At Cornell right now, and, and here's a guy who's coached at one level for one team for 35 years and how hard that is, but also how great that must be. You know, but, but even if you listen to a guy like him, he'll even talk about every year he reinvents. Yeah. How he's going to coach and who he's going to coach. So I don't think it's, it's. I think it's one of those things when you go into a. I guess if you want to call it a calling or a curse, you know, whatever, whatever it is that you're, that you get into it. I mean, I, I got into coaching. It was really more out of a necessity to work. And I, I felt I enjoyed being a skills coach. I enjoyed working with young athletes. I enjoyed the. I guess, you know, it's kind of like being an official. Right. You probably asked an official the same way, like, how do you deal with the negativity and, and, and all the questioning and the, you know, the, the, you know, if you're making, like it's like one of those things, right. If you're, if you're, if everybody's happy, you're probably not a great coach. Yeah. And, you know, and you're probably not doing the best job. But, but, and it's at the same time, if everybody's upset and mad, you're, you know, so it's, it's a real balancing act. But I think it's, it takes the ability to have, you know, to be able to self reflect, be able to. I, I Think, be humble even when you know you're right. Like me, I think I'm right 100 of the time, most of the time. So. But you have to. You have to understand that there's. There's ways to approach that and, and, and convincing other people and you know, that you're kind of leading, that your way is the right way. Right. 

Christie Casciano [7:19 - 8:01]: I'm glad you brought up Coach Schaefer, because I don't know if you saw the game against Michigan when they won, how emotional he got. And he's retiring, so he's going out real high right now because that was an improbable win. So you can see, I mean, he'd been doing it for years and years and years, but yet at that moment, it was like, so new and so fresh and just kind of the culmination of just 35 incredible years. Right. So you think, wow, what a rewarding career for this man that he was able to coach and feel that emotion and joy at that moment. That was a thing of beauty. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:02 - 9:31]: Christie, you're tapping on a great point that, you know, I always say to coaches, there's no two teams I've ever coached that were the same. And I always say this too, that even if I have the same exact athletes, it's never the same, like, because people evolve, teams evolve, the game evolves. And, you know, one of the things too, I want to add is just. It's funny, you know, Ted Lasso really summed this up so well. It's just, I love coaching. I love it. I really love it. You know, and helping people see the potential, best versions of themselves through sport is such a gift. I mean, and that really is the. The crux of the whole thing at most levels, right? Obviously, when you get to professional coaching, you have to win, you have to succeed. But this, what I just said, still plays a massive role in that, right? It's not. It's not win at all costs without that. Right. And I don't think coaches can succeed today with that. And, you know, again, just to close the loop on this, when I was playing in college, I'll never forget this, you know, I was very actively playing. I was not thinking about coaching at all. I remember my college coach came up to me and he said, you know, you ever think about coaching? And I remember I was like, no way. Like, I'm a hockey player, I'm not at all interested in coaching. He just looked me right in the eye. He says, well, I see coaching you. And I always. That was weirds me out. Because he recognized it really early, and I had no desire at that point in my life to do it. So I. I don't want to say it's something you have or you don't. I think you can grow into it. But there is a love there and an obsession there that has to be there. 

Mike Bonelli [9:31 - 9:42]: Yeah, I didn't like that when my coaches would say, hey, Mike, I think you'd be a good coach. And I. Because I always took it as. I think he thinks I'm a really bad player. He's like, we gotta get this guy off the ice. Get him on the bench. 

Christie Casciano [9:42 - 9:43]: Yeah, let's get him off. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:43 - 9:44]: I do it nicely. 

Christie Casciano [9:46 - 10:26]: But you raised a good point earlier, Mike, about the. There's some harsh criticism, so you gotta be able to put some Teflon on at times and just be able to have it deflect and just bounce right off of you. Have there been times when the criticism got to the point where you wanted to walk away from coaching? Or how did you reassess everything and hit the reset button so that you could go in the next day and say, okay, we're regrouping. I'm not quitting. I'm not giving up. I know I can do the right thing for the. For future hockey players. 

Mike Bonelli [10:26 - 13:22]: It's basically the conversation I have with myself on Sunday nights. Well, because I think if you. So I think people, you know, you get into coaching because you. You. You feel like you're good at it, and you feel like you can lead groups of people. And at the youth level, it's so different than coaching at college and pro. Well, the worlds are starting to get gray a little bit. But back in the day when I was, you know, beginning to coach, like, I. I love the college atmosphere because I really didn't have any interaction with the parents. It was all about the athlete. And, you know, and then when you're coaching at high school and prep school, it's more about the athlete. But there's obviously, you know, people. They have to get to the, you know, games. They have to get to the practice. Somebody's got to pay for all this stuff. So then you're dealing with the parents more. And now that you're. Now that you're doing youth hockey, it's all parents. It's really. The kids are, like, third on the list. You know, so. So after, you know, the administration and the parents, everybody else saying, oh, get. Then I get to work with the kids. So there's always, you know, to have a thick skin and have the ability To I think, just feel, you know, really confident in what you're doing and knowing that you're going to get criticized. But also, you know, we, and we've talked that a million times in the show is that I, I try to, and I've learned the hard way, right, that they're trying to build communication aspects into what I do and redundancy into making sure that schedules are correct and the timing is correct and that I'm not telling somebody like at 3 o'clock in the afternoon that we have practice at 7pm like those are things like when I was a non parent coach, like I really could care less. I'm like, oh, tomorrow morning we have practice at 6:00am oh, you know, it's Martin Luther King weekend, people are away. I don't care what I care, we have a hockey game. Like I have to coach, I'm coaching my team. So the more you want less stress in your life and less people, you know, throwing arrows at you, just communicate more and be, and be a little bit more inclusive into, depending on what level you're coaching, being more inclusive to the, the rest of the group because everyone has people pulling them in different directions. And you know, you get the, you get the opportunity to, you know, to, to find that common ground for everyone. So there is a, there's certainly many, many times I'm like, what the hell am I Like, why would I do this? This is dumb. Like I'm losing money, I'm losing time, I'm losing, I'm losing opportunity of my own family so I could help somebody else's family who really doesn't appreciate what I'm doing. But you got, but again, it's, it's, it's finding the right people and finding, and I will say this, there are thousands of more people that I feel have appreciated what I've done than the ones that are the loudest that don't appreciate it. 

Christie Casciano [13:22 - 13:27]: Well, that's good to know. And so Lee, I'll ask you, how thick has your skin gotten as a coach? 

Lee MJ Elias [13:27 - 14:37]: Yeah. You know, Mike, I don't remember who said this quote, but it's so true. It's when we win games, the players did it. When we lose games, the coaches did it. All right. Yeah. And, and that's so true. You know, it's funny, Christy, that I'll preface this because everything Mike said is correct. I'll actually go a different direction with it, that I have never lost my hatred of losing, ever. Right. But I have learned to mature and how I deal with it. So when I was younger, losses would hit me so hard emotionally. Right. And, and I'm. Mike's not joking. I mean, after a huge loss, the thoughts that go through your head of like, why am I doing this? This is so why do I put up with this pain? Right? It's, I mean, it's like. And then you start dissecting the game or the players and like you can find a billion reasons why you, why you lost and then you kind of stick with it and then eventually you win. And it's like the opposite of like, it's all worth it. Every bit of pain. And I think over all because of me. Yeah. Yeah. If I wasn't here, this wouldn't happen. 

Mike Bonelli [14:37 - 14:38]: No. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:38 - 14:58]: But you know, you know, over my, my 20 plus years, over my 20 plus years, I think I've learned to balance those emotions and understand that like Mike says, like, you know, and again, look, you could lose an 8U tournament or a pro championship and there is, look, there is a difference in terms of how much it sucks, but they both suck. It still hurts either way. 

Christie Casciano [14:58 - 14:59]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:59 - 16:34]: And I think that I've just learned how to understand of, okay, after a loss, I'm going to feel a certain way. And there's a. You got to get yourself past that. They're normal emotions. And I can confirm here. And Mike, Mike, I'm sure you would agree that the, the majesty of victory, winning a huge championship really does make the losses worth it, assuming that you're pursuing that. Right. So like the big wins are so much bigger than the losses are hard for me. All right. I know there's a lot of coaches out there. I just hate losing more than I love winning. To me, the truth is there's a balance in there somewhere. I think coaches that say that it's cliche. All right. Because I, I really hate losing. I mean, anybody who knows me knows that I don't, I don't, I don't take losses well. But I, I'm not afraid to say I love winning too. Like, I love to win. Why would I not want to win? So I think from an emotional standpoint, again for the coaches listening, we're talking about, you know, are you cut out to be a coach? You do have to learn how to, how to kind of balance those emotions. And you're going to have, you know, I haven't mastered this yet. You're just going to have negative thoughts after a loss. It just, it just comes. I just again, I'm able to tell myself, like, don't listen to that. Monkey brain. Take a day, take a minute, you know, get back out there, because. And I'll finalize it by saying this, Christie. I think the longest I've ever gone after a big, big loss before needing to get back out there again was maybe two weeks. Like, and I remember it was two weeks. I was really in a bad spot, like, mentally. But, you know, eventually, it's just. I miss it. You miss it. You want to go back to it. Right. So it never breaks up with you. Christy, you can't get away with. You can't get away from it. 

Christie Casciano [16:34 - 16:57]: This is a great conversation. I'm curious, too. What kind of a resume do you need to be a youth hockey coach today? It's like, hey, I coached college hockey, or I was a college hockey player. Can I be your coach? How much training do you need? What kind of background do you need to be a youth hockey coach these days? 

Lee MJ Elias [16:58 - 17:02]: I mean, Mike, do you want me to drive in that one good Instagram account? 

Mike Bonelli [17:02 - 18:54]: I think you have to have. Yeah, so I, I. So I don't think you have to have any qualifications whatsoever, unfortunately. I think what. What happens is you can if you want. So, okay, you go in. You want to be a coach. You. You obviously, you don't even have to have played. Honestly, like, Like, I. I tell people all the time, I. I get whatever it might sound, whatever it is, I am the best lacrosse coach. I know I didn't play high school lacrosse, but I know the game. I know the game. I know how to teach, I know how to coach. I know what my athletes end up doing. I know how. I know how good they get, and I know how much they love being on the field every day. But I didn't play lacrosse, so. But now, are there. Are there people that played that understand the fundamental game and where your hand should be and your body and lanes and gapping and, you know, riding. Yes. But I surround myself with all those good people. Like, I make sure I find those right people. So what makes you qualified to be a great coach right now? I think somebody that can. That can be a sponge and have an opportunity to have no ego and to fill the void of what you're missing with education, experience, and passion. And if you could find those people to help you and drive all those aspects, anybody could coach. You just have to want to be able to give up, you know, 27 weekends of your life in hockey and. And not real. And not get paid. It's kind of like teaching, you know, so. So you have to, you know, just have to give it all up. But, but, but if you want to be honestly, I think the qualifications from a coach, again, you don't have to have played. You don't have to have any skill in the game. You just have to have a real good understanding of, you know, human behavior and how people react to stimulus and, and then. And honestly have a passion for whatever age group you're doing to show how much you love being out there working with those, those athletes. 

Christie Casciano [18:54 - 18:54]: Okay. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:55 - 21:26]: Yeah, it's a great question, Christy. So, first off, with youth hockey, I'm with Mike. You could have all the experience or none of the experience. There really is no prerequisite for you to dive into the game. But I can tell you, you know, it's interesting conversations I've had from both sides. Right. You know, if you coached really high level or played actually, let me say that at a really high level, that doesn't always translate well to the youth level. And adversely, if you've never coached, sometimes that translates really well. I, I can think of a coach in my mind right now from this past year who's pretty green to coaching. And, and, you know, he always says, I just, I, I'm new to this. And it's like, you're doing great because he's coaching young kids and he's really put the kids enjoyment of the game first. And he has done a tremendous job. His name is Andrew. I can tell you that right now. He's done a tremendous job. The kids all want to come back. They had a wonderful time. They're friends. You know, to me, at a youth age, that's way more important than the hockey. I mean, the resources are there for you. If you're a green coach and you don't know what drills to do, there's infinite resources to build a practice plan to develop the kids. I just love that. The attitude he brought and he got pushback this year about some of the development aspects of the game, and he just handled them really well. Like, look, look, I'm all for your kids development, but the kids have to love coming to hockey. He just had such a firm grip on that. The other thing I'll say too, Christie, is this, is that especially if you're an aspiring coach, the learning never ends. Whether you've been doing this 0 years or 20 years, the yearning. I'm sorry, the learning never ends. And you should be yearning to learn. I am. I, at this point of my coaching career, I'm a voracious learner. Right. And when I was younger, it wasn't that way, it was. I. Mike said, I know, I know what I'm doing. Whereas it's now I'm like, no, I want to learn as much as I can. And I, I have learned from coaches who have coached youth hockey. Again, look, I've been coaching hockey what's five, six years now with my own kids. The first couple years I was working with youth coaches. Never played at a high level, never coached at a high level, but they had been coaching hockey for three or four years. And I told them, I want to learn from you. They're like, but Lee, they said it. You played at this. You've coded. It's not youth hockey. I've never done this. You've done it. You have the experience. I want to learn from you. So you got to bring that attitude. No matter what level, what age, what experience, you got to always be learning, learning. I think that's the prerequisite, that's the resume, Christy, of I'm excited to learn about the game and teach these kids. 

Mike Bonelli [21:27 - 21:49]: I think at the same time, the, the, the, the, the, the, that's the, that's true of the other way, too. If you're not willing to explore and learn and you're not willing to immerse yourself into a place where like, like, I know when I first started coaching and I, I was a pretty good hockey player and I was coached by really good coaches, I did everything I could to be around coaches. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:49 - 21:50]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [21:50 - 22:27]: College coaches, preps coaches. If I found out somebody was coming in town doing a get, like, I, I distinctly remember, like, Tim Taylor from Yale coming in to do some kind of a program, and I'm like, can I just sit in the locker room with you? Like, can I just come and, and do this for. And you know, I think the first instinct now in our world of youth hockey is, hey, I'd like to coach. Great. How much do I get paid for that? If that's your first question and, and you want to be paid again, if that's like the first question that comes out of, in an interview for a coach, it's, it's a huge, huge red flag. It's right, you know, tell me who's on your coaching staff and can I sit in with every one of them? 

Lee MJ Elias [22:27 - 22:52]: Can I dive in on that? Let, let's, let's. Christy, if it's okay with you, let's dive into how to get paid, because that could be an eye opening, very eye opening thing. You know, first off, you're gonna suffer financially for a while before you really get paid. Unless you are, like, a retired NHL player that wants to dive in or you have a name, you're going to suffer financially in this game for a minute, and you're going to have to probably volunteer to do it before you get any real money. 

Mike Bonelli [22:52 - 22:55]: And I'm not in Connecticut. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:55 - 24:46]: But other than that, my point is this, like, you're not going to make real money, like, salary money in this game for a while. And the thing is. And this. This ties the whole conversation together, Christie and Mike, is that you better have a real love for this and would be willing to do it for free, because almost all the great coaches I know have or would be willing to do it for free because they love it so much. All right, Then, you know, once you do build up that resume, you better. It's a buyer beware situation. If you're getting paid, you can also be fired, and you better be ready for that, because if you don't perform or you lose the locker room, I mean, we. We talk about youth coaching, pro coaching is. Is a battlefield in a lot of ways. Right. We see it every year in the NHL. All right, Now, I will say this, too. I'm not trying to scare you. If you love it, pursue it. But it's not an easy road. Right. Like, I. I every single day, multiple times a day, give thanks that I make money doing what I love to do. All right? I never take that for granted. I don't take the show for granted. Right. I. I have nothing but gratitude that I get to wake up every day and do what I love. But, you know, we always talk about people, oh, you're so lucky. I. The work that went into getting here, which I'm not bitching about, but there was a tremendous amount of work that went into this on the back end. A lot of pain, a lot of wins. A lot of stuff happened before I was able to get a dime or a pound when I was coaching Yingling for that point. All right? Yeah. So it's a. It's a road. And, Mike, am I wrong and saying you better be obsessed in that. In a. Well, I was gonna say healthy way. There's no healthy obsession, but you better be obsessed and. And willing to do it for nothing if you want to get to that level, because I don't think there's any pathway there other than what I said about, you know, being a retired NHL player. It's going to pay off. 

Mike Bonelli [24:47 - 26:25]: Yeah. I mean, you think about the assistant coaches in college hockey and the years and years and years working summer camps Working summer working, finding ways to live. You know, maybe you're fortunate to have come from a family that wants to support you for as long as they can. Maybe. Maybe you're, you know, in a situation where you can. Like the. The. Everybody sees the coach that's coaching at the highest level and making the big money. But for most of us, it's all these coaches that go through years and years of. Of honing their craft and working the room and being on the road and, you know, being in locker rooms that maybe you don't even like the head coach, but you're just there learning, working, building your resume, and then, you know, finding a way to, you know, get your opportunity. Some people never get the opportunity. Some people. And at the same time, some people love being behind the scenes and being an assistant coach and being just the girl or the guy who gets to teach rather than do all the administrative. I mean, it's funny. Like, so, you know, if you're thinking about coaching, you know, it's a funny thing how when you start being a head coach, you. You get to coach less, you know, like, so true. Like, you know, you become an administrator, you know, manager. There's all. There's always so much more. Like, I. I tell you, like, last year, I got an opportunity to coach with a really great, great coach, and I got to be an assistant coach, and just. I got to coach, like, I got to really be the person that didn't, you know, that could be in the. And I could be in the hallway, like. Yeah, I know. Terrible play by the coach. I couldn't believe, you know, But I mean, but. But just I could be in a place where I could be an advocate for the. For the kids. 

Christie Casciano [26:25 - 26:26]: For the kids. 

Mike Bonelli [26:26 - 26:47]: And I could be. And I could be a really good sounding board for the coach, and I didn't have to, you know, I wasn't bogged down with all the other stuff that goes on with being a head coach at whatever level you're at. I mean, right about, like, you know, Lee brings up other coaches all the time about, you know, where they're at in their careers. But, you know, after a game, you don't. You can't just go have a beer. Like, you got to go to a press conference. 

Lee MJ Elias [26:47 - 26:50]: Yeah, it's work with this. 

Mike Bonelli [26:50 - 26:53]: You got to go deal with agents. You got to deal with disgruntled parents. 

Lee MJ Elias [26:53 - 26:56]: You've got to deal and keep your cool. And you got to keep your cool. 

Mike Bonelli [26:56 - 27:08]: I can't tell you how many times in my life as a hockey Director or head coach that I've come at the end of all the social events that we've had after tournaments and games. I was putting out every fire there was. 

Christie Casciano [27:08 - 27:08]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [27:08 - 28:18]: And everybody else was just hanging out, having wings and beer and like, hey, where you been? I go, I'm cleaning up your mess. Like, so, so again, it's all. Or my own mess. So it's just like again, it's, it's. I love, I mean it all. It's all active and, and you know, Lee mentioned it the other day. Like, sometimes it takes a week or two to get over bad seasons and losses and disappointments. But at the alt. But if you, if you sign back in to go again, you know, either a, it's, you know, you're insane. Right. Because you keep trying to do the same thing over and over again without getting the same results. But if you. But, but at the same time, it's so rewarding when you do break through. And it's not just about wins. And I know it's cliche because I, I would joke, like people that say that aren't, you know, don't win, so they, of course they have to find other ways to make a win. But I real. Like when I see players succeeded and when I see situations that we're in and we, we come out on top not with a championship, but with, with improved play, with great behavior, with great sportsmanship, with great mentorship, like all those kind of things, I, I chalk those up as victories. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:18 - 28:30]: It's all about how you define winning, Mike. And again, on the surface level, if you're just a fan, winning is winning the games or winning the championship. But as a coach, I just refuse. That cannot be my only definition of winning. I think, Mike, it is. 

Mike Bonelli [28:30 - 28:37]: You're going to lose most of your career. Like, so, yeah, definition is a championship. Then you're going to lose every year. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:38 - 28:38]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [28:39 - 28:42]: You're bringing up a great point to make all those things work. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:43 - 29:42]: The, the as a coach, I have to have a lot of different wins. That when you add them all together, Mike, to your point, that creates that big championship win eventually. But I said it earlier in the show. If we're not helping the athletes become better versions of themselves, and again, it's at every level. That's youth all the way up to pro. If we're not helping them find that, I don't know if winning a championship is really possible. Right. That's part of the management. And Mike, you bring up a great point too about head coaching versus assistant coaching. They're Very, very different roles. And Kristen, you're an interviewer. I mean, we just talked about it. After a tough loss, you get like 10 minutes and then someone's in your face with a microphone going, hey, why'd you lose the game? And you have to not throw your players under the bus. You can't say what you're actually thinking unless you're John Tortorella. Right. And it's like, it, it's tough. I mean, you really have to collect yourself and, and there's not really a moment to come down. And like I said, I just want a beer sometimes. 

Mike Bonelli [29:42 - 29:42]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:42 - 29:45]: You know what I mean? You can't do that. 

Christie Casciano [29:45 - 29:49]: Yeah. And you've, you know, there are many times you see those hot headed coaches behind a microphone. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:50 - 29:52]: Yeah. Sometimes I won't come up. 

Christie Casciano [29:52 - 29:52]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:52 - 29:54]: If I don't think I can. 

Christie Casciano [29:54 - 29:57]: You got me now. And I'm just gonna let loose. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:57 - 30:07]: Yeah, I, I really do try and I try and gauge like if I really feel like if I'm like bursting at the seams with anger, I, I typically won't walk out. I'll, I'll like, I gotta get myself collected. 

Christie Casciano [30:07 - 30:08]: Call. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:08 - 30:15]: All right. Especially with kids. Not that we do interviews with kids, but I won't even go in the locker room if I'm mad. Just, I, I have to get. They don't deserve that. 

Mike Bonelli [30:15 - 30:21]: Well, the press is the press and we've talked about this on multiple podcasts. Right? The press is the parents. Like, so if you're gonna walk in. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:21 - 30:24]: Why didn't you put my kid out there? Why did you put them out? 

Mike Bonelli [30:24 - 30:39]: I mean, they actually, you know, now they think about it like, every hall, every lobby and rink should have a podium. Like, I think that would be great. That'd be a great addition to, to any rink to just walk in and have like coaches podium, just stand there and go, go ahead, give it to me. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:39 - 30:44]: Yeah, Mike, I noticed that my son only had three minutes of ice time tonight. He's clearly the best winger on the team. 

Mike Bonelli [30:45 - 30:51]: Don't blind text me, don't, don't talk behind my back. I'm right here on the podium. Go ahead, ask the questions. You know, fire away. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:51 - 30:55]: Your kid can't make a backhand pass, and that's why he's not playing left wing. 

Mike Bonelli [30:55 - 31:46]: Right. But you learning, learning how to deal with that adversity is a learned behavior. Like learning that you don't have control of yourself at a certain time and not going to podium is a learned behavior. It's, that's true. It's it's not flying off the handle and saying, well, we would have won if the defenseman would have made a stupid, you know, wouldn't have made that dumb play coming out of the zone. You can't do that with 8 year old. So I think it's like, yeah, I mean, you could, but. But again, but it's, it's really just the perspective of where, you know, meet the moment of where you're at. Who are you coaching, what level you're coaching? Right. You know, eight U coaches that are some of the greatest coaches I've ever been around never win a championship because they're never in championships. They're just coaching, they're just teaching. They're just great. Like they're people that say, I love where I'm at. I'm station six guy and I will be this person for the next 15 years. And I love it. That's. We need more of those. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [31:46 - 31:51]: And Mike, I definitely think you're on to something. We need a kiss and cry corner at every ring. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:51 - 31:53]: We might have to make a microphone. 

Christie Casciano [31:53 - 31:57]: So that we can just let it out. Let's go, let's go. Round one. 

Mike Bonelli [31:57 - 31:58]: Round two. 

Christie Casciano [31:59 - 32:32]: You, both of you mentioned levels of coaching, and this could be brand new for a lot of parents who are new to the game of hockey. There are different levels of coaching. A friend of mine just finished level four. So there are actual training courses you can take with USA Hockey. Is it necessary? What does that mean? I'm a level four coach. Do you put that right after your name? Youth hockey coach, level four. What, what, what does that even mean? Does it make a difference? 

Mike Bonelli [32:32 - 32:34]: So, so I would. Now I'm. 

Christie Casciano [32:34 - 32:35]: How high does it go too? 

Mike Bonelli [32:35 - 35:27]: I bet. Well, so, so just from a USA Hockey perspective, you know what, I've been working with USA Hockey for 25 years, 30 years that, you know, in the coaching education program, there are certain levels of coaching education. And that was really. It's gotten, I don't want to say it's stricter, but it's definitely more defined and, you know, put together now because, you know, because we often make sure that coaches have certain levels of certification just to cover our own butt and to make sure that at least they understand the philosophy and the values that the governing bodies are teaching. Right. So, I mean, listen, there, there are hundreds of level five coaches that I would never let coach my kids, ever. Because that, that, you know, just because you were able to sit through, you know, three days of seminars doesn't make you a great coach. It, it, it it shows that you made some type of commitment. But I think what often happens, what I hear a lot, especially from the coaching education point, is, like, oh, I did my level 4. Am I done with this now? Thank God. Like, that's not. To me, that's not. That that certification level then means nothing to that coach. Like, like, so the certification level is just a check in the box. What I look for is, are you. Are you going through the certifications? But then what are you doing for your continuing education, whether you're getting credit for or not? Like, if you're a coach, that the last course you went to was 1992, and you've. And you said, I. I got my level four from USA Hockey in 1992, so I don't have to go to anything else anymore, then I'm not sure I want you around the kids. And I think it. And it even goes like, what I actually, what I think USA Hockey's done a great job of, from my opinion and from my point of view, is even pro guys that get out of the game that want to coach have to go through Level one, right? They don't think. Sometimes they get waivers to. To bypass some other levels. But level one is the. The core is, what is USA Hockey? What are we teaching? Why are we teaching it, and how is it so much different than when you played? Because it is a lot different. The philosophy and the discussions around, you know, how we talk to athletes, and it's funny how the coaching program now is going less about X's and O's and more about human development. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing for everyone. But as far as your certifications go, you know, the old, you know, want to coach, you got to do a background check. You want to coach, you got to do. You got to do a. You know, you got to get certified and you want to coach, you probably have to do CPR and first aid. If you want to coach, you got to have continuing education credits and. And be up to date with your membership. Those are just parts of being a part of a, you know, a large body that oversees the sport. I. I don't think any of those things are bad things, but I do think it's a bad thing. Is that if that's the only education you're doing to me, I don't know. That's probably not like a coach that should be getting paid to coach. 

Christie Casciano [35:27 - 35:28]: What level are you? 

Mike Bonelli [35:29 - 36:18]: I'm a level five. Come on. Well, back in the day Back in the day they used to call it master level coach. So I'm a master, he's got a master's degree. But I, but again I, I really cringe at the level. I, I don't, I, I, I am actually pretty proud of how I got it and why I got it. But I'm more proud of all the coaching stuff I do out after my level five. All the coaches psych conferences I go to, all the Roger Nielsen's coaches conferences I go to, all the NHL Coaches association conferences I go to. Like those are the kind of things that, that for me are much more valuable than you know, the two day course that I took. It's more about are you a coach that's continuing to educate yourself on the modern aspects of the game and leaning on your, the history of the game, you know, from, from how, what you've done as a teacher. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:18 - 36:19]: Right. 

Christie Casciano [36:19 - 36:29]: And we're so grateful that you have all that education and you're level five. Lee, what you've been through the different levels, how far did you get and what'd you get out of it? 

Lee MJ Elias [36:30 - 37:11]: Yeah, look, I'm actually currently level three. I'm, I'm actually the living embodiment of what Mike talked about is that I, I, I went on USA Hockey in the back end and it's only because I got into youth coaching. So it's funny to say is I won my first pro championship with no certification. Right. I was not certified at all. Which, and follow me here like you didn't need it at that point. It wasn't a prerequisite to coach at that level. Right, right. So, so I had done probably 15 years of coaching before I really needed quote unquote, USA Hockey training now. Now here's what I say, and I actually wrote this down and underlined it. And I think this is the big truth with USA Hockey and the coaching courses. You will get out of those courses, what you put in. 

Christie Casciano [37:11 - 37:11]: Okay? 

Lee MJ Elias [37:11 - 37:25]: So if you go into that course, even level one, and I, and I try not to do this thinking, oh, this is going to be so basic and stupid. I mean, well, you're gonna have a miserable time. I went into level one with, I'm gonna see what this is about. 

Mike Bonelli [37:25 - 37:25]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:25 - 39:16]: And there, yes, while I, there was a lot of it, I understood there was also a few little golden nuggets there, but I never thought about that, you know, and they do these breakout sessions where you have to discuss with other coaches, if you have a great group that's talking, you're going to learn Something, right. You get out of it what you put in. Now, the other thing which is funny in my. I think it was either level two or level three whenever I did that certification, about to do level four. Right. The funny part, I'll tell both of this was I'm in one of the breakout rooms and one of them's looking at me, goes, you're the guy from that podcast. Oh, I swear to God, it happened. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's me. And then we went back in the main room and the guy running it goes, oh, yeah, Lee's here from our Kids Play Hockey. I had no idea he was gonna call me out, but. But what was cool and what I appreciated about that was I had no problem with them showcasing, like, here's a guy that has coached a long time, runs a very popular podcast, and he's here and. And I was very complimentary. Back to them, too. I will say, too, that, that and Mike, you know this. The leaders in those, the people running the. The course make a difference. They try and be as energetic as they can. USA Hockey always seems to bring in some experts, you know, in terms of someone who's been doing it a long time. But. But you get out of it what you put in. If you, if you approach it with a negative attitude, you're going to get that. And Mike, to your point too, I like how they've expanded it with these, these coaches courses I've taken, and it's not a prerequisite, actually before level four, but I've taken some of those additional courses on goaltending just because I was interested, again, kind of, kind of going back to the. I love learning. But I'll just finalize by saying this, you do need it to Coach youth hockey. 100%. I understand why they do it. It makes a lot of sense. But it is also not needed, per se to be a great coach. It's. You can do that on your own as well. But this is a certification you have to get to qualify. 

Christie Casciano [39:16 - 39:17]: Okay. 

Mike Bonelli [39:17 - 40:31]: Right. And I would say too, if you are one of those great coaches, if you're somebody that played at a high level, had great coaches, you, like, you coach pro hockey before you started coaching youth hockey. Like, you don't. You don't need a level one to coach the NHL. Right. So if you coached at a high level, you played a high level. It's. That's what's so much more important for you to be in these, because you get to be in the breakout room with these, with the with the dads and moms that have never coached before, they're in the same boat, but they can learn so much more from you. So I. I even running these courses for whatever, 15, 20 years, like, in my district, one of the things I love the most was having these established players that have played at the highest level and been around the greatest Olympic coaches and Division 1 coaches and pro coaches and hall of Famers, and they're in the same room and they get to add their insight. And then me, as a, you know, I'm some plumber that's coaching my kid for the first time, I get to go and say, well, that guy played in the NHL and I can learn from him. Just like, hopefully I'm calling that guy up when I, you know, spring a leak in the bathroom. Like, you know, I'm not fixing myself. So I think it's all. It's the same. It. It's just the. It's the ability to say, none of this works right? None of youth hockey works without volunteer coaches. 

Lee MJ Elias [40:31 - 40:31]: None of it. 

Mike Bonelli [40:31 - 41:06]: And none of it works without really energized people to come in. But you. But the certification allows us to get more people in the door, I guess. You know, a lot of people would say it hinders because we put so much. I mean, you're looking at, you know, eight hours of this and five hours of that and, And. And, you know, got to do this module and that module and that background check and. Yes, but you know what? The world we live in, we've got to do those kind of things. But to Lee's point, make sure when you do it, go in with an open mind, learn something, take something out of it, and give something back in it. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:06 - 41:32]: There has never been one of those courses, Christy and Mike, where. And this is true because, you know, last year, we have to share a lot of drills within the. The course. And without fail, there is a coach who's been doing it for two years or three years, and they share a drill I've never seen before, and I love it. And it's just. There can't be an ego in that room. It's. We're all trying to help the kids. That's why we're here. You're not taking a USA coaching course to not coach youth hockey. 

Mike Bonelli [41:32 - 41:33]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:33 - 42:02]: And learn. And look, look, I always say, too, like, some of these other things we have to do, like the FBI checks, which are not hard to do, right? We make it sound like hard, but it's. It's like when people complain about gas prices going up 10 cents. I'm not saying there's people not down on their luck financially, but if you're getting 20 gallons of gas and it's 10 cents extra, I don't think we do a good job of keeping perspective how much extra money that is. And again, I'm not, I'm not downplaying that could be a lot of money for some families, but you'll also go out and buy a seven dollar cup of coffee right after getting that gas. 

Mike Bonelli [42:02 - 42:02]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:02 - 42:05]: So it's like, you know, you got to just keep things in perspective. 

Mike Bonelli [42:05 - 42:07]: Some of these Silverado around the hockey. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:07 - 42:11]: Game, I don't have, I don't have a Kia for a reason. 

Mike Bonelli [42:12 - 42:13]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [42:13 - 43:01]: I want to circle back to something that you said and this is really an important part of coaching today. As you said, less about the X's and O's and more about the human development. How challenging is it now to coach knowing that you also have to balance the challenges of kids who might be struggling right now and the dynamics of teaching trying to raise not just good hockey players, but also good people too. So let's talk about that. The whole opportunity to lead these young minds in a good direction. Here's your chance to do that. Sometimes you might be the best role model for that kid in their life. 

Mike Bonelli [43:01 - 44:50]: Yeah. Or the only. So, yeah, it is. So my evolution of this has been really challenging because I think when I look back at as a, an 18 and 19, 20 year old coach, I'd be horrified at the things that I did like that I look back now and I see other kids, you know, other players doing it. I'm like, or other coaches doing it. Now I'm like, so today we have, I mean, I don't know, like today we have much more education. Today we have, the players are much more educated. They're, they're, they have much more exposure to other things that are going on out there. I think they have a lot more stresses. I think they have a lot more fomo. I think they have, the parents have a lot more. You know, we've talked about this a number of times on the show where, you know, when I grew up I only had like maybe two programs I could go to. Maybe. And really I never thought about going to another one because you just, just didn't happen. You got cut from one team and just went down to the lower team. Like you didn't go, oh, I didn't make that team. So now I'm going to go an hour away and make that team like so it didn't. It didn't. And that's, that's so that's changed. But I think the, the, you know, I think the successful coaches, even back then, even though I, I did things I wasn't proud of or happy that I did and, and, and felt like I had to do, I, I still think I, I was able to reach players in a, in a, at a personal level where the X's and O's really were irrelevant. Like, you know, my original, you know, coaching resume wasn't an X's and O resume. I was like, oh, man, I, I have the best, you know, the best system in the world for everyone to play, and that's what we're going to win. It was. Wow. I can really connect with these kids because I was around their same. Like when I coach college hockey, I, I was, I, I think I was 20, I think I was 28 years old, my first college hockey head coaching job, and I had players on my team that were 24. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:50 - 44:50]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [44:50 - 46:27]: Like, so, so I, you know, I think about, like, you know, I, I, to go to different bars, like different towns to go out and have a, you know, go out and have dinner because, you know, the guy, the guys would be, you know, so it'd be a different aspect. But I want to like, and I didn't have the, the chops to say, well, I'm, I'm a college coach, but I thought, you know, you have to connect with them on, on a personal level and really get to know them. I think I did a, a fairly good job of that. I think I missed a, missed a mark on, on certainly a number of kids, but I think it's all a matter of you learn and you, and you embrace the, the, the, the opportunities. You have to say, oh boy, I, I probably would have done that a little differently. And then hopefully the next group you have, you learn and you grow and, and you know, you, you changed maybe the way that you approach each team and each player, but it is, I, I just think it's more challenging now than it's ever been, only because the vehicles to make it challenging are, they're more like, like if, like let's, let's use. For instance, we'll bring this up as far as, you know, getting into coaching. Like, there's a thing called safe sport, right? So safe sport is, is supposed to help us all manage and work with our students and protect our coaches, right? It's supposed to be so coaches aren't in locker rooms alone with players and, and inappropriate Behavior with athletes and, you know, supporting them. But it, it's a double edged sword. Right. Because now parents can have a safe sport violation anonymously without, without any incident and just bring it up and the coach is suspended and there, and there's no recourse for that. Like there's no, there's no appeal. Just. 

Christie Casciano [46:27 - 46:27]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [46:27 - 46:50]: This is a fact. Right? This just happens. Well, of course they're probably right. Like, no. Why, why, why don't we ask them why this happened? It's oh, my kid got cut from that team. So when I would cut a kid, you know, back in the, in the early 90s, they just got cut. Now it's, they get cut and now they look to lash out and find ways to. Yeah. To hurt you as a coach and you as an organization. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:50 - 46:51]: Brutal. 

Mike Bonelli [46:51 - 47:20]: They're enabled, they're enabled to have that ability to do that. So you know, it, it is, it is, it's just like, you know, it's just like the portal right now. If you don't know that college, college has a portal where when, if a player could not be happy and they want to make more money or they're just not happy because they don't like the situation, another coach in your conference can take them. Like right now, kids are, college hockey is still being played right now and there are kids on teams that are playing that are in the portal. It's crazy. Oh, you're right. 

Christie Casciano [47:20 - 47:33]: The first day, the first day that the portal opened, there were 700 athletes on the first day in the portal. 700. And I think last year there were 2,000. It's probably going to double this year. 

Mike Bonelli [47:33 - 47:44]: Yeah, right, right. Think about, think about the challenges back in the day. Like good or bad, like when I coach, it was like my way the highway. Now it's like, whoa, whoa, please, please stay and can I help you? And what can I do? 

Lee MJ Elias [47:44 - 47:46]: A lot of coaches quit because of. 

Mike Bonelli [47:46 - 47:50]: This now or they just throwing their hands up. I mean, I just heard it. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:51 - 47:52]: Nick Saban said it. You know, that's why I'm leaving. 

Mike Bonelli [47:52 - 48:36]: I think Rick Patino said we don't even coach high school kids anymore. We're just going to take the juniors that we need. Like, so it's like, you know, like I, I'm gonna go get a polished kid and youth hockey, we're doing that now. Like right now we're not going and developing the kids. We're just going to get in the polished kid. So, so it, but as far as like what, like it, so it has changed in your relationship I think is hurt by that because you don't get to build those lasting long term relationships with players and kids because you're always like, like, I have a role. Like, I don't become like Facebook friends with, with the parents of the kids on my team because I know in six months they're all gonna hate me. Like, they're, you know, like, yeah, we're a Facebook family. We love each other. And then. But you get got cut. Like, I hate you. You're an idiot. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:36 - 48:37]: I don't have that problem, Mike. 

Mike Bonelli [48:37 - 49:29]: No, I know, but you're a good coach, I think. But you know, when you're not a great coach, you get all this and, and it's just, it puts you in a bad situation because why just, just avoid it, you know? But it's so there is no time anymore where you could get, you can get hidden by that. Like it, you're there. Like, it's like everyone knows, like, this is the situation we're in. So it, it is much, much different than, and, and, but, but good. Good and bad, right? If you're a terrible person and a terrible coach, you're going to get exposed too. And you're not going to be able to linger in organization. Like, look at Chicago, right? Or wherever. You can't linger in an organization for years and years and years and years without anybody calling you out. Like, it's so much harder to hide the bad people because now we do have exposure to them. Right. So I don't know if I answered your question, but. 

Christie Casciano [49:29 - 49:54]: No, you did. It's a lot to think about. I mean, that's the other side of it. Even if you want to go into coaching, oh, I think I can do this. I've got the skill. I can manage kids. I can do scheduling. I'm good at all that. I love hockey. I have passion for the game. There's this side of it. It's also now a reality as part of it. So you need to go into it with your eyes wide open, big time. 

Mike Bonelli [49:54 - 49:56]: That's. Yeah, yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:56 - 52:53]: And if I may, Christy, you know, the question, the question was about with the kids. And yeah, Mike makes some good points. I want to say this too, that, you know, look, it's not. It asked about the opportunity to, to coach kids. It's really not an opportunity, it's a privilege. And that, that's how I look at it now. All right. Is that the, the, the trust that is in. Empowered to me to help develop these kids as people first and as hockey players second, is a real Privilege and a real honor. And I don't. I don't take that lightly. These parents are handing their kids off to us to help them grow. Now, again, parents are the biggest advocate for their own kids. 100. There's no. There's. Nobody's gonna love the kid more than the parent. But, you know, you really do care about these kids. Even the tough situations where everything's telling you to kick the kid off the team, that's not easy. It's not easy to deal with that. Like, you don't want that. It's not. At Least for me, I don't necessarily want to kick a kid off a team ever. There are scenarios where that's. That is what ends up happening. But it is a privilege to be able to coach. You know, the other thing, too, Mike brought up, you know, when I started coaching, it was so much of me wanting to show people what I know, which is not good, right? Like. Like, again, when I was younger, it was like, let me show you what I know. That was the attitude. Now, I was very successful. And Mike said this too. I still very much cared about my athletes. It wasn't a complete ego trip, but it was there of I need to prove myself and show everybody what I know. And as I've gotten older and matured, that's very, very little of it. I mean, if at all, right? It's more of, like I said, it's a privilege that you trust me. What I know. But it's so much more about the players and the people, whether it be parents or staff or, you know, whatever level you're coaching at. And it's not, let me show you what I know. It's. I would love to show. Share with you my knowledge and we can learn together. And I don't, you know, if that sounds softy out there, you're missing the point. I'm gonna be honest with you because. Because. And look, I'll say this is the only egotistical thing. I'll say I win a lot. I'm very, very, very privileged. I win a lot with the teams that I coach with. Okay? And so it's not based on me, though. It's. And I'll flip it, right? It's the we of the whole thing. We win a lot. And that's how the. That's the difference between the younger me and the older me is that when I look at the teams we coach now, it's like, together we have accomplished something. Right? So again, we talked about tactics, right? I. I know my tactics. I'M I'm a pretty good tactician. I'm not a great tactician, but this goes back to being a coach. I don't need to be the best tactician. I need to find the best tactician to be part of my staff. Right. So that we can find that ecosystem that's going to work. And I've, I've said this before too. It's been a while. You can be the greatest hockey tactician that's ever lived, but if you can't communicate those tactics effectively, you're worthless. It's not going to work. 

Mike Bonelli [52:54 - 53:29]: I think a great example too is if you watch college games and pro games and you watch like at a timeout and you know, you more so than not, you'll see not the head coach, you know, with those last minute, you know, know, setups for in zone defense or offense because it's the special teams guy that's working with those players all the time. So it's, they're giving now. Could that person be like, hey, it's my team. I'm smarter than everyone? I guess you could go in there. But I, but I don't know. Like, like, listen, I've been on teams. I'm like, who is in our power play anyway? Like, you know, like, who do we have up next? 

Lee MJ Elias [53:29 - 53:30]: It's not my pay grade. 

Mike Bonelli [53:30 - 54:08]: Yeah, right. But I just like let you know that's that, you know, you, you delegate, know a lot of positions and a lot of setups to other coaches and sometimes you're like, you know, you look down the bench like, wow, that was a really great play. Like, that was unbelievable. How do you come up with that? Or when did you work on that? Like, oh, I've been working on that after practice with the kids for like the last four weeks. And those are, you know, while I was out, you know, you know, fighting for my job. So I think it's just like, you know, it's. But it's, but it's always, it's all that kind of stuff that comes into play where when you can, when you can, you can mute ego and surround yourself with the right people, but also make sure those, those people around you want to, want to support you as well. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:08 - 54:11]: That's a great word he used real quick. Just you said probably. 

Christie Casciano [54:11 - 54:50]: I love that we probably have time for one more question and I'm really curious about this. I think great way to wrap this podcast up. So look back at all your years of coaching. Was there a favorite moment memory event that made you say, wow, this was all worth it. All the aggravation, all the parent controversy, all the darts that were thrown at me. This moment sealed the deal. I'm so glad I'm here. And as a coach. Mike. Tough question, Orly. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:50 - 54:52]: It's a tough question. 

Christie Casciano [54:52 - 54:57]: I know, because you have so many memories, right? It doesn't even have to be the favorite, but something. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:57 - 55:00]: How about this? I'll. I'll tell in a story format. 

Christie Casciano [55:00 - 55:00]: Okay. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:00 - 57:12]: When, when I was on the bench for my first pro championship, in my mind at that time, I was very unproven in the sense of that my approach hadn't yet won me a big championship. And I remember winning that. And there's a video of me on the bench kind of screaming into the air, like really, like just letting it out, right? I remember it was, it was like years of, of relief, you know, exploding out of me. Now what's funny about that, Chris? This is why I bring it up. It was a wonderful moment. I mean, it was probably the peak of my, my pro coaching career. Is that a few years later. Talk about ego, right? Muting ego. Few years later, I was on the bench for an international championship. So this is a nation now that has won a gold medal with Puerto Rico. And it was the exact opposite. I didn't have the need to prove myself. And I remember there's a video of me also just standing on the bench with a smile on my face, just so happy for my athletes. I had no, no self reflection of me having been the coach of that team. But it was, I was so happy for my, my players, and it was like it was almost the complete opposite. But they were both moments of elation in their own right. But, you know, if I had to pick one, you know, winning with my two children last year, the elementary league, you know, I look, first off, they're, they're unique ages, so they're, they're far enough apart that there's only two years in their entire school career they'll ever play together. And this was one of them. And I kind of realized, like, if we, you know, whether we win or not, it's. This is special. But the chances of them winning together on the same team are very, very small. So when we won that championship in overtime, that was a really special moment to me as just a father. And I think that while the pro championships were great, that that probably is the top, you know, the father with. I'm looking at, I have pictures all around me of that moment. It must have been an important moment of us winning. I can't grab one right now, but, like, there's one of the three of us together with their medals on. Biting the medals and standing with the, the banner. I mean, and I want to finish on that because, again, I've, I've. I've been so blessed with these tremendous kind of wins in hockey, but the one with my kids has got to be the most special. 

Christie Casciano [57:13 - 57:13]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [57:14 - 57:14]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [57:14 - 57:15]: Sealed the deal. 

Mike Bonelli [57:16 - 59:46]: Yeah. I don't know. I think for me, you know, I just like having, you know, my father coached for a long time, and I really, you know, those are. Those are things I'll. I'll never like. I, I. My father was way ahead of his time as a coach because he didn't ever care about winning, and he never talked about it, and he never, like, he just cared about making sure you were having fun and the team was having fun. Sometimes he's actually expensive, his son sitting the bench. But I think it was, you know, I said, I should be on the power play. No, no, you can't be on the power play. I'll have to hear about it. You know, I said, well, I'm the best player on the team. You know, I'm gonna. I want to play. So I think. I think, you know, so those, Those are, like, really cool, like, core memories that are. That are kind of in my brain about. In. In kind of into, you know, to leave side, too, like, coaching my own kids and, and having opportunity to see them succeed from the bench side, which is really, you know, I. I've always said I'm very envious of all these parents have a lot of pictures of their kids playing and videos of them playing, because I don't have any of that. Like, because I'm on the bench, I'm like, I get. I get like, the grainy live barn video of my kids succeeding where other, you know, other parents are in the corner with the camera and they're following their own kid around. And, you know, so it's so. To me, I think that, you know, when I watch and again, and I've won a lot, like, you know, high school championships and, and prep games and, like, there's, and even, you know, winning, like, for me, like, not winning championships in college, but winning meaningful games that you knew were accomplished because you led up to it with a, With a certain, like, you knew the personnel you had, so you over, you know, achieved from what you had, like, you know, as a coach, like, I know I'm not going to achieve this, but when I can achieve these other things that now they can Take on for the rest of their lives. Yeah. And put together in their cap and come back and it's like, like, like some of the most best memories I have are being in alumni games, being an alumni games, watching players come back to them, like, to. To. To. To. Embracing their experience. That I In a lot, you know, I would take a lot of credit, and I created that environment. Like, you know, so I think, you know, so those are those I love, you know, not to single out any individual game, but I think it's just those. Those. All those memories and. And fortunately, unfortunately, like, they all seem to meld together for me. Like, I can't, Like, I'm the guy, like, right now, like you see on Instagram, like, you know, 20 years ago. I keep thinking 20 years ago is 1975. Right. So it's like, it's like, what, 2005? 

Lee MJ Elias [59:46 - 59:49]: Mike, when did all this happen? 

Mike Bonelli [59:49 - 1:00:01]: Like, when the hell did all this happen? Like, when did the time go? And I think, like, in coaching, like, players in and out. Like, I meet players all the time. Like, oh, coach, remember me? I'm like, I don't even. Like, when did I coach you? Like, when did. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:01 - 1:00:04]: When, you know, the late 1900s, Mike. 

Mike Bonelli [1:00:04 - 1:00:23]: I see them, I see the player, and I can't. I'm like, you were a little tiny baby. Like, you were. You were a kid in, like a little. A little Windwell hockey helmet at the time. So I think it's like, you know, to me, like, those are kind. Those are all cool things and, and really great experiences, but I think anybody wants to get into coaching, you know, those are the kind of things you remember at the end of coaching. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:23 - 1:00:25]: Yeah, that's a great point. 

Mike Bonelli [1:00:25 - 1:00:25]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [1:00:25 - 1:00:44]: I want to thank you both for your honesty, your openness, sharing the ups and the downs, and personal stories. I think you're going to help a lot of listeners right now decide whether or not they are cut out for coaching. And maybe we've got some new coaches to recruit thanks to this podcast. 

Mike Bonelli [1:00:44 - 1:00:44]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:44 - 1:02:14]: Well, Kristi, I'll tell you, you keep doing shows like this, people are going to start listening to this podcast. I'll tell you. This is our Kids Play Hockey podcast. No, no, Christy, let me. On behalf of Mike, too, let me thank you. Those are great questions. And, you know, for those of you listening, Christie really had the idea for this episode, and we thought it was a great episode because, you know, we realized we don't. We don't talk about this aspects of Mike and I enough. You know what? We're. We're always trying to share and interview, but this has been great. So I guess I'll go back to being the host now. That's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, if you have questions about coaching, if you if you have thoughts about anything, you can email us team at our kids playhockey.com join our Facebook group, Our Kids Play Hockey. A lot of conversations in there. And remember, you can always text us episode ideas. There's a link accompanying this episode in the show description, but for Christy Cashiana Burns, the interviewer, the journalist, USA Hockey, Hockey's mom, and Mike Benelli, a Level 5 coach, but so much more. All right, I'm Emily Elias. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids by Hockey. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids play hockey.com also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops atwhen hockey stops dot com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.